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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why is it hard to believe that third parties are biased against Nintendo?

Why does this sound like it was taken straight from a Jimquisition episode? Like completely ripped off?



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

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Fusioncode said:
Why does this sound like it was taken straight from a Jimquisition episode? Like completely ripped off?

probably the air of elitism?

but considering the lack of "thank god for me at the end" I doubt it

Also I think Jim likes Nintendo, but he wouldn't defend them especailly if they are doing something that makes less games avaiable for consumers.

He's above all else a consumer advocate.

Which is why I might disagree with him sometimes, but that doesn't prevent me from understanding his viewpoints, cause I am a consumer advocate as well.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

RolStoppable said:
Mythmaker1 said:

The difference between the question in the thread title and the examples in the OP is that, unlike those examples, there's an actual basis for third-parties to avoid Nintendo. 

They have a history (albeit one that, depending on your perspective, is in the past) of being a bad partner, their tendency to make radical changes to their hardware makes them an unreliable platform, and from a purely financial perspective their platforms offer less potential return for third-parties.

Two simple tasks for you:

1) The PS3 made programming hard and drove up development costs, its sales pace was far below expectations which in turn crippled third party software sales to the point that in the year after the PS3 launch almost every big third party publisher posted losses and had to close studios. During the same timeframe, the PS3 sold the lowest amount of third party software between itself, the 360 and the Wii. Explain how the PS3 could end up with the best third party support in the long run.

2) The 3DS had built over a ten million lead in installed base over the PSV in Japan and Monster Hunter was very successful on Nintendo's handheld. Explain why God Eater 2 skipped the 3DS.

With sony my guess would be sony must have convinced them somehow but you also have to take into consideration the HD Twins (xbox 360 and PS3)

design for two consoles at the same time. Also i think alot of companies wanted to push graphics.

But the whole aregument for nintendo bias could also be used against the psp vita (why won't they make game for it)

Actaully point two could point against bias against PSP Vita as well Monster Hunter made it big on the PSP but went to the 3DS.

The point I am trying to make is there is of course there is bias in the market but there is lots of other factors as well example monyhat, lack of sales of consoles,studies that say such and such company is going to fail, target markets ect.

There is so many different factors involved that to point to bias alone just doesn't make since.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Can be also a factor.



All I see is judgement, in some cases poor judgement, but no signs of bias. The OP contained no examples of bias but examples of poor judgement instead. The market has clear trends, and some people assume those trends work against other trends, which of course can sometimes be the incorrect assumption.

As for the Nintendo part, it's been hard for third parties to gain success on Nintendo platforms. It's easy to create unoriginal games (which most games these days are), but those games have a hard time on Nintendo platforms. Original ideas are much more difficult to create. Also, in an online world, Nintendo hasn't exactly created an online-friendly profile for itself, which obviously has an effect. Not only that but Nintendo has also chosen to use old technology third parties might not be eager to use due to its limitations. I think there's more than enough reasons why third parties have good reason to stay away from Nintendo instead of simply being biased. I'm not saying it's impossible for them to succeed on Nintendo platforms but it's definitely more challenging than on other platforms.



TheLastStarFighter said:

b) Even if Nintendo games aren't that great and/or popular, they're still massively more popular than any other 1st party collection.  As a result, third parties prefer to publish on systems with weaker 1st party presence.  Hell, Sony thought about ditching their entire 1st party line up a few years ago.  If I was a third party looking to have as little competition as possible, that's where I'd go.

Just for clarification....

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/13/sony-could-have-closed-its-first-party-studios-in-2008-but-shuhei-yoshida-saved-them/



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RolStoppable said:
Mythmaker1 said:

The difference between the question in the thread title and the examples in the OP is that, unlike those examples, there's an actual basis for third-parties to avoid Nintendo. 

They have a history (albeit one that, depending on your perspective, is in the past) of being a bad partner, their tendency to make radical changes to their hardware makes them an unreliable platform, and from a purely financial perspective their platforms offer less potential return for third-parties.

Two simple tasks for you:

1) The PS3 made programming hard and drove up development costs, its sales pace was far below expectations which in turn crippled third party software sales to the point that in the year after the PS3 launch almost every big third party publisher posted losses and had to close studios. During the same timeframe, the PS3 sold the lowest amount of third party software between itself, the 360 and the Wii. Explain how the PS3 could end up with the best third party support in the long run.

2) The 3DS had built over a ten million lead in installed base over the PSV in Japan and Monster Hunter was very successful on Nintendo's handheld. Explain why God Eater 2 skipped the 3DS.


1.  The increased development cost came from SD development to HD development, not because of the PS3 specifically, especially since the x360 was the lead development console 3rd parties used.  Porting cost were high for the PS3 hince why many developers sent the job to their B teams (Like Bayonetta).  Factor 5 and Free Radical both choose business decesions that were determental to their companies.  They made bad games.  Even if the Ps3 was easy to develop for, both games were commercial failures.  Development hell and most likely well over budget, their writing was on the wall. Konmai was able to escape this with MGS4 because the game was critically acclaimed, a franchise with an exisitng userbase and constant high sales.  Sony receives the best 3rd party support due to its longivity for their home consoles, the risk reward for games after 6 or 7 years tend to be better with an establish userbase and lower cost due to lower sdk and fees.

2. I guess Nintendo/Capcom are the only ones who can make under the table deals.



TheLastStarFighter said:
st0pnsw0p said:

Despite popular belief, Nintendo games aren't so good that they appeal to absolutely everyone and stop people from wanting to buy any other type of game. The reason most 3rd parties sell poorly on Nintendo consoles is due to their completely different demographics. People who buy a Wii U generally aren't the type of people who are interested in AAA 3rd party games and vice versa, hence why games like AC, CoD and the like sell worse on Wii U than on other consoles, but for a Rayman Legends, which appeals 

If Nintendo made a console that both audiences bought, both types of games would sell well and third parties would be willing to support it, just like they supported the PS3 at the start of the generation despite its faults simply because their games sold on it.


a) "Despite popular belief" is a funny term, but it's really all that matters.  You may not think Nintendo games aren't that good, but the popular belief is that they are and so people buy them ahead of all else if they are available.

b) Even if Nintendo games aren't that great and/or popular, they're still massively more popular than any other 1st party collection.  As a result, third parties prefer to publish on systems with weaker 1st party presence.  Hell, Sony thought about ditching their entire 1st party line up a few years ago.  If I was a third party looking to have as little competition as possible, that's where I'd go.

I never said that there aren't people who like Nintendo games more than any other games, only that not everyone does, and that the reason 3rd party multiplats don't sell on Wii U is because the people who like those games just as much or more than Nintendo's games aren't interested in a Wii U.



I'm not to sure , but I don't think Third Party Publishers are biased, but I do think a few developers are. You see tons of hate on twitter about Nintendo everyday by devs, and published soon force them to remove those tweets. Lots of Companies want to support Nintendo's WiiU, but can't financially afford too like Namdai or Tecmo Koei who own more niche IPs. Dynasty warriors/Samurai warriors was meant to be on all 3 platforms, but I think poor sales of Ninja Gayden and Warriors orochi forced them to focus on xbox/ps. Looking at NISA or NipponIchi as well I feel like they'd support Nintendo and Sony, but once again they can't financially do so. I bought my WiiU thinking JRPGS would go multiplat for Sony and nintendo like Tales of, but in the end even the JP companies were like "Nope i'm out!"



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DavidKell said:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Can be also a factor.

I've said this before about third parties. It doesn't paint them in a good light.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

it isn't hard and at this point it's not a matter of belief, it's a plain fact.