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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - DirectX 12 Will Boost Xbox One’s Possibilities, Will Prompt Sony To Boost PS4 – To Leave Dev

Turkish said:
So the PS4 tools will get better out of reaction to DX12 and not a natural evolution like all console's go through? Sony is not sitting on their asses waiting for MS to catch up, not that they'll be able to, there is a significant hardware gap. They're already making it more efficient:
PS4 ICE Team Programmer: ‘Surface Tiling/Detiling On The CPU Is 10-100x Faster Now’
http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-ice-team-programmer-surface-tilingdetiling-on-the-cpu-is-10-100x-faster-now


Cort rewrote functions to use SIMD, yes. Math and opcode-optimization is ongoing on both sides, nothing unusual here. I guess Sony will do a lot more of this as they have to rewrite a lot of code from SPUs to x86.



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And right on que a DX will save the day article. Next is the powah of ESRAM.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

I will say this much right now, feel free to quote me on it down the line.

As time goes by development of games for the xbox one will improve, framerates and resolutions will improve, though not dramatically for resolution, this would have been the case without DX12 being added to the mix.

DX12 is not a magic pill however, using functions and features of DX12 will not magically increase performance beyond what is currently possible or allow developers to use higher resolutions than they currently do on the same codebases.
what DX12 WILL do however, is manage the resources that game use in a much more uniform fashion, stabalizing framerates, so instead of jumps from 20fps to 35fps, youll be looking at 28-32 fps, or 45-65 to 55-62fps, smaller dips and peaks that provide a somewhat smoother experience.
load balancing the threads does free up some space to pack in a little more, but that unlocked overhead isn't anywhere near enough to make drastic resolution or target framerate jumps, it means however that in future when making engines from scratch, optimizations can be made to use the resources more efficiently, and the result is a better performing product, so taking a small step ahead of the development curve that would have happened anyway.

I just dont understand why it seems a lot of people are just expecting something along the lines of a "system update that enabled dx12" that will magically make everything run better, that just isnt going to happen, DX12 functions will find their way in to the SDK to be used by developers for new games, and slowly evolve over time with the SDK, functions will change, be added, be removed, mature, and so on, just as ALL sdk's are constantly improved upon and updated.


Think of it this way, a DX9 mode game will run more or less identical on DX10, or DX11 as it did on DX9, the software support needs to be added to the engine for it to make full use of the API, the same goes for xbox one games.


People need a taste of reality.



Pemalite said:
HumdrumPie said:
So, is DX12 in developers hands already? From all this talk I'm not getting the sense that devs haven't used it. I hope my impression is wrong because a holiday boost would be fantastic, even if it's in 2015. That's when the new DX12 games show us what it's made of. If thhis new API only gets into dev's hands late 2015 then we will only see AAA games those games in 2018 (assuming a 2.5 year dev cycle). That is not so good.


If developers already have it, it would be a very very very early alpha/beta.
Microsoft isn't just doing a minor update with Direct X 12, but a massive overhaul, which will bring with it some advantages typically found in low level API's, it's going to take allot of time and man power for such an overhaul as well as getting input from Intel, Via, AMD and nVidia.

Thus by extension if Sony doesn't do the same with OpenGL, then Microsoft most likely will have an edge in API performance.

The Khronos Goup already announced that OpenGL could improve the performance between 7x to 15x during the latest GDC with a presentation titled "Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL".

Everybody goes the same way.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
Pemalite said:
HumdrumPie said:
So, is DX12 in developers hands already? From all this talk I'm not getting the sense that devs haven't used it. I hope my impression is wrong because a holiday boost would be fantastic, even if it's in 2015. That's when the new DX12 games show us what it's made of. If thhis new API only gets into dev's hands late 2015 then we will only see AAA games those games in 2018 (assuming a 2.5 year dev cycle). That is not so good.


If developers already have it, it would be a very very very early alpha/beta.
Microsoft isn't just doing a minor update with Direct X 12, but a massive overhaul, which will bring with it some advantages typically found in low level API's, it's going to take allot of time and man power for such an overhaul as well as getting input from Intel, Via, AMD and nVidia.

Thus by extension if Sony doesn't do the same with OpenGL, then Microsoft most likely will have an edge in API performance.

The Khronos Goup already announced that OpenGL could improve the performance between 7x to 15x during the latest GDC with a presentation titled "Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL".

Everybody goes the same way.

Oh goody.
Gotta' be carefull though, throw around numbers like 7x and 15x and people will think the system as a whole will be that much faster when it's just the API speed.

Hardware is starting to advance more slowly there is a massive new drive for efficiencies and that pleases me greatly.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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JEMC said:
Pemalite said:
HumdrumPie said:
So, is DX12 in developers hands already? From all this talk I'm not getting the sense that devs haven't used it. I hope my impression is wrong because a holiday boost would be fantastic, even if it's in 2015. That's when the new DX12 games show us what it's made of. If thhis new API only gets into dev's hands late 2015 then we will only see AAA games those games in 2018 (assuming a 2.5 year dev cycle). That is not so good.


If developers already have it, it would be a very very very early alpha/beta.
Microsoft isn't just doing a minor update with Direct X 12, but a massive overhaul, which will bring with it some advantages typically found in low level API's, it's going to take allot of time and man power for such an overhaul as well as getting input from Intel, Via, AMD and nVidia.

Thus by extension if Sony doesn't do the same with OpenGL, then Microsoft most likely will have an edge in API performance.

The Khronos Goup already announced that OpenGL could improve the performance between 7x to 15x during the latest GDC with a presentation titled "Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL".

Everybody goes the same way.


They definitely meant certain parts in special cases and in no way an overall improvement.



walsufnir said:
JEMC said:
Pemalite said:
HumdrumPie said:
So, is DX12 in developers hands already? From all this talk I'm not getting the sense that devs haven't used it. I hope my impression is wrong because a holiday boost would be fantastic, even if it's in 2015. That's when the new DX12 games show us what it's made of. If thhis new API only gets into dev's hands late 2015 then we will only see AAA games those games in 2018 (assuming a 2.5 year dev cycle). That is not so good.


If developers already have it, it would be a very very very early alpha/beta.
Microsoft isn't just doing a minor update with Direct X 12, but a massive overhaul, which will bring with it some advantages typically found in low level API's, it's going to take allot of time and man power for such an overhaul as well as getting input from Intel, Via, AMD and nVidia.

Thus by extension if Sony doesn't do the same with OpenGL, then Microsoft most likely will have an edge in API performance.

The Khronos Goup already announced that OpenGL could improve the performance between 7x to 15x during the latest GDC with a presentation titled "Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL".

Everybody goes the same way.


They definitely meant certain parts in special cases and in no way an overall improvement.

Of course, it's just like AMD when talking about Mantle and BF4 claiming huge gains that weren't really seen in the game. It is PR talk.

But the important part here is that they are working on a better optimization of the drivers, like Microsoft.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
walsufnir said:
JEMC said:
Pemalite said:
HumdrumPie said:
So, is DX12 in developers hands already? From all this talk I'm not getting the sense that devs haven't used it. I hope my impression is wrong because a holiday boost would be fantastic, even if it's in 2015. That's when the new DX12 games show us what it's made of. If thhis new API only gets into dev's hands late 2015 then we will only see AAA games those games in 2018 (assuming a 2.5 year dev cycle). That is not so good.


If developers already have it, it would be a very very very early alpha/beta.
Microsoft isn't just doing a minor update with Direct X 12, but a massive overhaul, which will bring with it some advantages typically found in low level API's, it's going to take allot of time and man power for such an overhaul as well as getting input from Intel, Via, AMD and nVidia.

Thus by extension if Sony doesn't do the same with OpenGL, then Microsoft most likely will have an edge in API performance.

The Khronos Goup already announced that OpenGL could improve the performance between 7x to 15x during the latest GDC with a presentation titled "Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL".

Everybody goes the same way.


They definitely meant certain parts in special cases and in no way an overall improvement.

Of course, it's just like AMD when talking about Mantle and BF4 claiming huge gains that weren't really seen in the game. It is PR talk.

But the important part here is that they are working on a better optimization of the drivers, like Microsoft.


Not drivers, the API itself MS doesn't do drivers (except on Xbone, of course).



walsufnir said:
JEMC said:
walsufnir said:


They definitely meant certain parts in special cases and in no way an overall improvement.

Of course, it's just like AMD when talking about Mantle and BF4 claiming huge gains that weren't really seen in the game. It is PR talk.

But the important part here is that they are working on a better optimization of the drivers, like Microsoft.


Not drivers, the API itself MS doesn't do drivers (except on Xbone, of course).

The drivers are also improving, see the latest Nvidia drivers.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
walsufnir said:
JEMC said:
Pemalite said:
HumdrumPie said:
So, is DX12 in developers hands already? From all this talk I'm not getting the sense that devs haven't used it. I hope my impression is wrong because a holiday boost would be fantastic, even if it's in 2015. That's when the new DX12 games show us what it's made of. If thhis new API only gets into dev's hands late 2015 then we will only see AAA games those games in 2018 (assuming a 2.5 year dev cycle). That is not so good.


If developers already have it, it would be a very very very early alpha/beta.
Microsoft isn't just doing a minor update with Direct X 12, but a massive overhaul, which will bring with it some advantages typically found in low level API's, it's going to take allot of time and man power for such an overhaul as well as getting input from Intel, Via, AMD and nVidia.

Thus by extension if Sony doesn't do the same with OpenGL, then Microsoft most likely will have an edge in API performance.

The Khronos Goup already announced that OpenGL could improve the performance between 7x to 15x during the latest GDC with a presentation titled "Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL".

Everybody goes the same way.


They definitely meant certain parts in special cases and in no way an overall improvement.

Of course, it's just like AMD when talking about Mantle and BF4 claiming huge gains that weren't really seen in the game. It is PR talk.

But the important part here is that they are working on a better optimization of the drivers, like Microsoft.


With Mantle there was massive gains.
Just not on anything resembling semi-decent modern hardware. :P

You would see a much much much larger improvement using Mantle on say... a Core 2 Duo/Quad @2ghz than you would on a Core i7 6 cores @ 4.5ghz+
The main focus of mantle at-least initially was to significantly reduce the CPU overhead from draw cells and it achieved that with flying colours, the bonus is that lower-end PC's benefit greatly, making high-end PC games more accessible to more machines.

AMD have stated they will work towards reducing GPU overhead, but I remain skeptical on that particular front.

I also need a Low-Profile GCN card to test it on the core 2 rig of mine.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--