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the right to bear arms and how it can be used to defend from big government

Forums - Politics Discussion - the right to bear arms and how it can be used to defend from big government

So from what I've red, the grazing fees changed in the 80's from a one time fee to a monthly fee at 1,35$ per cattle, everyone else abide by it but this guy didn't like it so he fed his cows for free on government land, made money out of it and when the Obama dictator government went to collect he used the ''f'' word and all the true americans came to defend him. I wish I could do the same with my rent goddamn it.

Also apparently Hary Reid's son was going to build a solar plant by a Chinese communist company in Nevada, and of course Nevada being such a small state, the land where all this cattle war is happening is where they were going to build the plant not miles away, but thx to the free muricans them global warming believers socialist liberals chinese lovers didn't get their ways.Fucking Obama



Bet reminder: I bet with Tboned51 that Splatoon won't reach the 1 million shipped mark by the end of 2015. I win if he loses and I lose if I lost.

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Meh guy owes money for using their land (yes I realise his family used it before but that agreement expired 1993) how is this Government Fault lol. Just seeking attention on TV that is all.



 

 

Sounds to me like this guy was in the wrong and created a big fuss leading to the law enforcement backing out because it wasn't worth the effort. I don't see why I should be on his side...

Additionally, the right to bear arms means something very different now than when the constitution was drafted and I honestly don't see any need why people would need certain types of guns. Yeah, pistols and hunting gear is fine but any further than that and you are infringing on other people's freedom to protect your own.



Give me a fucking break, honestly. That dumbass was using government land for 20+ years without paying a dime, even though the law that said he had to pay for using land NOT HIS OWN was signed into law but the great and powerful Ronald Reagan. And so even though they don't give a single shit about his cows or how cheap he is, a bunch of dumb-fuck, trigger happy gun-nuts show up in his town, scaring the shit out of the locals by the way, and pretend like they're ready to go to war with the feds?

Here's a couple of thoughts:

1. They would have lost, and lost bad. In fact, if it weren't for a concern over the loss of life to agents and innocent locals, and worrying about election season coming up, the government should have just carpet-bombed the whole lot of them. The point being, they were a bunch of hill-billies, up against trained government agents, with the fucking US ARMY on standby. Tanks, rockets, bombs, actual training, actual educations, you name it.

2. The fact that the gov. backed down is understandable, but also troubling. They backed down because they didn't want to create the biggest public massacre in ages. They backed down because it would make local politicians look bad, or it might even "Make Obama look bad", and would play into the already existing ridiculous hysterical frenzy these far-right-wing nutjobs have worked themselves into.

BUT, because the gov. backed down, this will also embolden idiots like this nation-wide, to think that they can get whatever the fuck they want, so long as enough of them show up with loaded guns. No due process, no voting and using non-violent protests, etc., like any civilized, educated, conscientious American. Nope. Just overzealous fervor, thinking you have power because you walk around with something that could easily kill people. IE the "guns give me second, bigger dick" theory. This is bad news in a country where many states are enacting "Stand Your Ground" laws, that allow morons in places like Florida to murder people in cold blood, even in broad daylight at times, and get away with it so long as they can prove they "felt threatened".

This is troubling, because the same kind of clowns that showed up to "Defend" some jackass in Nevada who has been illegally using government land to feed his cows for decades and doesn't feel like paying, are the same kind of clowns who are openly professing in online groups, that they want to fight and kill federal agents, police officers, politicians, public figures, etc. You know.......TERRORISTS.

And yet I gather some people seem to think they're "Freedom fighters"? Well.....I'm sure that the fuckin' Taliban and Al Quaeda think they're "freedom fighters" too. I'm sure all the crazy gun-nuts who have gone on shooting sprees killing innocent people, even little kids, in the last decade+, probably thought they were making some kind of point of doing it for the "greater good" somehow too. Fuck, the goddamn Unibomber was this same exact type of person. He thought he was fighting a "tyrannical government" too.

The point is, this is going to get worse before it gets better....and this kind of lawless "Wild West" that these Tea Party hacks seem to dream of, is NOT the America the founders intended, nor is it the America that most sane Americans, myself included, want to live in. If these morons want to TRULY know what it's like to live under a "Dictator" or a "Tyrannical Government", and have all their precious freedoms trampled upon.....then why don't we deport them all to nice, happy places like Somalia, or Syria, or North Korea, and see how long they would actually last without all of their excess food, without free access to the internet (much less electricity) to post all their hate bullshit, without freedom of speech and government PROTECTIONS to allow them to walk around acting like they're tough shit.

It's because they LIVE in a free, first world country where even the poor live great compared to a LOT of third world nations, that they are even allowed to live and act like they do. If they lived in any of those places I mentioned, or dozens more, they'd all be skinny within a month, and likely dead not long after that. This world has no place for the phoney tough and crazy brave. If they were really interested in making American society better, they would realize that you do that through EDUCATION, by bettering yourselves and the community around you. NOT by trying your damnedest to drag us all back into the fucking Dark Ages.



sundin13 said:

Sounds to me like this guy was in the wrong and created a big fuss leading to the law enforcement backing out because it wasn't worth the effort. I don't see why I should be on his side...

Additionally, the right to bear arms means something very different now than when the constitution was drafted and I honestly don't see any need why people would need certain types of guns. Yeah, pistols and hunting gear is fine but any further than that and you are infringing on other people's freedom to protect your own.

Wait what?



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The guy owes more than a million in back taxes for violating an agreement he had with the Federal Government. Seems pretty cut and dry.

Now, for those who live in a fantasy world, semi-autos, shot guns, hell, even machine guns, won't do a damn bit of good against the US Government, if they decide it's your time to die. Ask David Koresh, ask Ruby Ridge, ask the Black Panthers. The right to keep and bear arms is fine, guns are a useful tool for many people. But, it's not an 'equalizer' when your foe has the capacity to erase you from tens of thousands of feet in the sky.

Simple solution, pay your taxes, or remove your animals from Federal land...or, god forbid, purchase the land from the Government and use it legally. Otherwise, the Government should just have a huge BBQ (courtesy of his cattle), and charge admission to try and pay back the debt he owes.



badgenome said:
-CraZed- said:

Also I have to disagree with the fact that it was just the exposure that made the difference. Occupy Wall Street got TONS of exposure and what came out of that? Zero, zip, zilch, nada. And Waco also got tons of press even without the aid of the internet. It was on TV every day during the whole standoff.

I think the comparable part of Occupy Wall Street was that OWS wasn't evicted from Zuccotti Park, not that they didn't get any of their (mostly incoherent and unrealistic) demands met. And Waco happened at a time when the media essentially consisted of three major networks plus CNN, all of which could be counted on to faithfully regurgitate the government's narrative. David Koresh being a fucking wacko child molester and not a salt-of-the-earth rancher didn't help the Branch Davidians' image.

I think a better comparison is probably Ruby Ridge. Randy Weaver had a lot of guns, too, and all it did was give the feds an excuse to slaughter his family. What he didn't have was a lot of sympathetic people with cameras.

I offered those two examples up as contrasts. OWS was an unarmed but well covered gaggle of citizens and Waco was an armed and covered but largely unsupported outside of the members of the cult. Where as here we have a case whee he had state officials, other citizens and even militia groups coming from outside the state to assist his efforts to thwart over-bearing bureacrats efforts to steal his property and livelihood.





I don't think that their possession of weapons played a role here, but I will say this.

DevilRising said:
1. They would have lost, and lost bad. In fact, if it weren't for a concern over the loss of life to agents and innocent locals, and worrying about election season coming up, the government should have just carpet-bombed the whole lot of them. The point being, they were a bunch of hill-billies, up against trained government agents, with the fucking US ARMY on standby. Tanks, rockets, bombs, actual training, actual educations, you name it.

This sort of bloodthirst is a fine illustration of America's cold Civil War and why no one should ever give an inch regarding the Second Amendment.



DevilRising said:
Give me a fucking break, honestly. That dumbass was using government land for 20+ years without paying a dime, even though the law that said he had to pay for using land NOT HIS OWN was signed into law but the great and powerful Ronald Reagan. And so even though they don't give a single shit about his cows or how cheap he is, a bunch of dumb-fuck, trigger happy gun-nuts show up in his town, scaring the shit out of the locals by the way, and pretend like they're ready to go to war with the feds?

Here's a couple of thoughts:

1. They would have lost, and lost bad. In fact, if it weren't for a concern over the loss of life to agents and innocent locals, and worrying about election season coming up, the government should have just carpet-bombed the whole lot of them. The point being, they were a bunch of hill-billies, up against trained government agents, with the fucking US ARMY on standby. Tanks, rockets, bombs, actual training, actual educations, you name it.

2. The fact that the gov. backed down is understandable, but also troubling. They backed down because they didn't want to create the biggest public massacre in ages. They backed down because it would make local politicians look bad, or it might even "Make Obama look bad", and would play into the already existing ridiculous hysterical frenzy these far-right-wing nutjobs have worked themselves into.

BUT, because the gov. backed down, this will also embolden idiots like this nation-wide, to think that they can get whatever the fuck they want, so long as enough of them show up with loaded guns. No due process, no voting and using non-violent protests, etc., like any civilized, educated, conscientious American. Nope. Just overzealous fervor, thinking you have power because you walk around with something that could easily kill people. IE the "guns give me second, bigger dick" theory. This is bad news in a country where many states are enacting "Stand Your Ground" laws, that allow morons in places like Florida to murder people in cold blood, even in broad daylight at times, and get away with it so long as they can prove they "felt threatened".

This is troubling, because the same kind of clowns that showed up to "Defend" some jackass in Nevada who has been illegally using government land to feed his cows for decades and doesn't feel like paying, are the same kind of clowns who are openly professing in online groups, that they want to fight and kill federal agents, police officers, politicians, public figures, etc. You know.......TERRORISTS.

And yet I gather some people seem to think they're "Freedom fighters"? Well.....I'm sure that the fuckin' Taliban and Al Quaeda think they're "freedom fighters" too. I'm sure all the crazy gun-nuts who have gone on shooting sprees killing innocent people, even little kids, in the last decade+, probably thought they were making some kind of point of doing it for the "greater good" somehow too. Fuck, the goddamn Unibomber was this same exact type of person. He thought he was fighting a "tyrannical government" too.

The point is, this is going to get worse before it gets better....and this kind of lawless "Wild West" that these Tea Party hacks seem to dream of, is NOT the America the founders intended, nor is it the America that most sane Americans, myself included, want to live in. If these morons want to TRULY know what it's like to live under a "Dictator" or a "Tyrannical Government", and have all their precious freedoms trampled upon.....then why don't we deport them all to nice, happy places like Somalia, or Syria, or North Korea, and see how long they would actually last without all of their excess food, without free access to the internet (much less electricity) to post all their hate bullshit, without freedom of speech and government PROTECTIONS to allow them to walk around acting like they're tough shit.

It's because they LIVE in a free, first world country where even the poor live great compared to a LOT of third world nations, that they are even allowed to live and act like they do. If they lived in any of those places I mentioned, or dozens more, they'd all be skinny within a month, and likely dead not long after that. This world has no place for the phoney tough and crazy brave. If they were really interested in making American society better, they would realize that you do that through EDUCATION, by bettering yourselves and the community around you. NOT by trying your damnedest to drag us all back into the fucking Dark Ages.

So many flaws with your argument that listing all of them would take to long.



NobleTeam360 said:
sundin13 said:

Sounds to me like this guy was in the wrong and created a big fuss leading to the law enforcement backing out because it wasn't worth the effort. I don't see why I should be on his side...

Additionally, the right to bear arms means something very different now than when the constitution was drafted and I honestly don't see any need why people would need certain types of guns. Yeah, pistols and hunting gear is fine but any further than that and you are infringing on other people's freedom to protect your own.

Wait what?

Heh, yeah...that sentence was a little too radical I suppose. What I meant that when possessing heavy weapons and whatnot, you reach a point where the peace of mind you gain is less than the peace of mind others lose by the fact that you possess said weapons.