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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Watch Dogs Wii U Version Release Windows Pushed to Fall 2014

Zero999 said:
Seece said:

When you're talking about a franchise like Watchdogs, 300k on a platform is DIRE. And WiiU only has 1 third party game above that. It was exclusive and bundled, if Zombie U released on PS360 simultaneously and wasn't bundled with WiiU what do you think its figures would be?

Lego City Undercover is the only successful third/second party game on WiiU, again tho it's exclusive .. along with Monster Hunter (the added benefit of being popular in Japan as well).

320k is the highest a multiplatform game has done on WiiU.


XB1 and PS4 have several multiplatform games double that.

AC Black Flag, the closest thing you could compare people interested in Watchdogs too

WiiU - 240k
XB1 - 740k
PS4 - 1.53m

XB1 version is three times the WiiU version, PS4 version is a whopping 6 times the WiiU version. Also to take into account, the PS4/XB1 versions were competing more directly with the PS360 versions. (as many who bought PS4 and XB1 had a 360 or PS3).

You are confusing two things:

1. This isn't a discussion about the game selling more on wii u than on other platforms.

2. The meaning of business sense. ubisoft guaranteed that the wii u version of watch dogs isn't going to sell well while not getting extra money in return + they pissed a lot of people. basically the same that happened with rayman legends. that DOES NOT make business sense, period.

It doesn't even seem like you're trying. Not trying to give you a hard time here but you aren't making any impactful arguments which is why so many people are beating up on you. I'm gonna play devils advocate and make one of the arguments for you that you could have hypothetically made. The only apparent thing I immediately see that doesn't make business sense is that postponing the wii u version means that that version will not be able to take advantage of the large marketing push all the other versions will get in May. It is also unlikely that Ubisoft will spend enough later on for the wii u's marketing push to match the other versions' release. This will certainly affect sales.

However....

1. It is likely that the loss of revenue from the wii u's release will be far less than the loss of revenue from delaying all the other versions. Remember, Ubisoft is a public company and has profit expectations that they need to try to meet on a quarterly basis.

2. The wii u version is likely delayed much further than you believe. The quotes I posted earlier imply that and you have yet to show evidence that proves otherwise. 

3. Some lost sales from the wii u version will likely go to other versions. This doesn't effect Ubisoft's bottom line as $60 for the PS3 version is as good as $60 from the wii u. No lost opportunity. 

4. Lastly, a lot of people are not pissed as you say. You are likely one of a very tiny disgruntled minority of wii u owners that 1) knows that the wii U version is delayed and 2) actually cares. This is why video game fan boycotts never work. Most people don't read vg news and forums and are largely uniformed. They still buy what they want when they see it. Hey, last year I was angry about how EA ruined Simcity. They never got my money but they sure as hell got millions from everyone else.



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bobgamer said:
oniyide said:
Zero999 said:
Hedra42 said:

Unfortunately it did make business sense to delay the Wii U version; in this case it's balancing delivering quality against financial risk, and here's why.

There were (and still are) huge expectations for Watchdogs; it had a high profile among all the hype building up for the console launches, and so they couldn't afford to deliver a half-baked game in November 2013.

We have already seen Ubisoft take a huge risk by delaying all versions for six months, thereby missing the launch of the X1 and PS4, in favour of delivering that quality. The delay had a huge negative impact on them at the time. It wiped 26% off their share price, and they had to adjust their forecast from an operating profit into a loss. It's not realistic to think they could announce another delay across the board and expect their investors to stay happy.

A quick exercise taken Here using VGChartz install base and pre-order figures gave a rough estimate showing that only 4% of Watchdogs' potential audience would be Wii U owners.

Taking into account the install base and the fact that ZombiU and other Wii U releases have not been profitable, if Ubisoft had been faced with the decision of choosing one platform to delay so that they could meet their deadline and avoid risking another hit to share prices and profits, delaying the Wii U version seems to be the better decision businesswise.

Indeed, in February 2014, CEO Yves Guillemot said: “We made the difficult decision to further delay the release of Watch Dogs on Wii U to focus the team’s resources where they could have the broadest possible benefit for both our customers and Ubisoft”

it doesn't make business sense. don't bother.

LMAO he broke it down like a fraction even gave you a link and thats ALL you have to say, LOL you didnt even try to rebuke anything he said.

I see you have just met Zero. Enjoy your stay :)


:) oh no ive been familiar with him since he first joined. It just shocked me how willfully ignorant he is being in this subject.  I mean most people would have just admitted they were wrong or at least, not even post a reply in hopes that it is forgotten.



curl-6 said:
Ubisoft could use the extra time to make sure the Wii U version isn't another incompetent shovelware port, but they won't.

Expect another AC3/AC4/Splinter Cell hackjob. (Pun entirely intended)


you have not way of knowing that for sure and those are horrible examples since none of those games you mentioned were actually late ports. You are going to have to come up with harder evidence to support your claim.



oniyide said:
curl-6 said:
Ubisoft could use the extra time to make sure the Wii U version isn't another incompetent shovelware port, but they won't.

Expect another AC3/AC4/Splinter Cell hackjob. (Pun entirely intended)


you have not way of knowing that for sure and those are horrible examples since none of those games you mentioned were actually late ports. You are going to have to come up with harder evidence to support your claim.

My evidence is pretty every third party Wii U game ever. There's been a grand total of TWO that bothered to use the extra hardware. Two, out of dozens.



Zero999 said:
Hedra42 said:

For reference, can you give an example of 'really good' third party sales on Wii U? Also, can you show us the WD vs AC4 preorder figures?

According to VGChartz, AC4 has only done 160k so far, and amounts to just over 1% of the total sales. If you're saying that WD would have done significantly more than that, and you have pre-order figures to prove it, let's see them.

acording to vg chartz us preorders. WD for wii u has 27k and AC4 had a 23k first week on US. the 160k for AC4 is already good for profiting and watch dogs had much better chances of selling very well.

really good third party sales? lego city, zombi u, monster hunter tri, rayman legends, sonic and sega all stars racing transformed, resident evil revelations, just dance series, skylanders series, lego series. AC3 and batman arkham city got an ok ltd so far and should be surpassed by their sequels.

Thanks for providing this info.

Lego City Under Cover (720k) was published by Nintendo.
Monster Hunter Tri (490k) was published by Nintendo.
Resident Evil Revelations (Capcom) I can't seem to find anywhere on this site.

For the rest:

Rayman Legends 310k, X360 and PS3 are 350k and 260k (Released in 2014 PS4 110k, X1 50k) - Wii U = 29% sales
Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing Transformed 310k,   X360 and PS3 are330k and 400k - Wii U = 30% sales

Just Dance 2014 - 270k. Wii sales were 2.99 million. X360 - 770k. PS3 250k, X1 210k, PS4 170k.  Wii U = 4% sales
Just Dance 4 240k. Wii sales over 6 million. X360 1 million. PS3 340k. Wii U = 3% sales
Just Dance Wii U 20k exclusive


Skylanders Swap Force 250k. Wii sales 1.5 million. X360 910k, PS3 370k. PS4 and X1 - 140k and 130k. Wii U = 7% sales
Skylanders Giants 180k. Wii sales 2.3 million. X360 1 million. PS3 810k. Wii U = 4% sales

Lego Marvel Super Heroes 230k. X360 1 million. PS3 950k, PS4 460k, 3DS 360k, X1 310k. Wii U = 6% sales
Lego Movie 90k. X360 410k, PS3 240k, PS4 110k, X1 90k, PSV 30k, PC 10k. Wii U = 9% sales
Lego Batman 2 20k. X360 1.3 million. Wii 1.1 million. PS3 960k. DS 600k 3DS 530k. PSV 250k Wii U = 0.4% sales

(feel free to check the math)

ZombiU 660k exclusive

The high install base of 7th gen consoles has an impact on many of these figures, but where the figures are comparable, it is because the other consoles' numbers are low, not because the Wii U numbers are high.

As for the exclusives you mention, Just Dance Wii U and ZombiU (Ubisoft) only sold 680k between them.

Regarding the preorder sales, Watch Dogs may well have overtaken AC4 in preorder sales by the time AC4 was released, but it still only represents a small percentage of the overall preorders.

Looking at the snapshot of preorders at the end of  October 2013, before any delays had been announced, (PS4 120k, X1 96k and  X360 65k) - assuming that PS3 was about 30k and Wii U 20k (as I can't see them) Wii U preorders would only have made up about an estimated 6% of preorders.

Zero999 said:

Watch dogs would have a good chance of selling well on wii u, it may still sell decently but nowhere near the numbers it would get if given a fair chance.

Zombie U was given a huge chance, bundled in with the Wii U and pro controller from launch, and it wasn't profitable.

Watch Dogs may have the potential to do well in your opinion, but compared with expectations for the other versions, everything points to it being poor, regardless of any delay. Those factors include the type of audience, low install base, low preorders, and past performances of other 3rd party exclusives and cross platform games.



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Only ubi games I have on wii u are zombiu (awesome game) and assassins creed 4 which I love. Seems they doing good ports and effort on new ip. Zombiu is actually comparable to condemned on 360. Both new ips both first person survival horror and both sold less then a million. Never heard anyone say condemned was a failure though at the time? Slightly off topic my bad.

Anyway im glad it git delayed more development time and also I would off bought mk8 over this anyway so now ill gwt both at launch. Whats everybodies beef?



Sega didn't come out and call condemned a failure like ubi did with zombiu, which is probably in large part responsible for their scaled back support of wiiu.



joesampson said:

It doesn't even seem like you're trying. Not trying to give you a hard time here but you aren't making any impactful arguments which is why so many people are beating up on you. I'm gonna play devils advocate and make one of the arguments for you that you could have hypothetically made. The only apparent thing I immediately see that doesn't make business sense is that postponing the wii u version means that that version will not be able to take advantage of the large marketing push all the other versions will get in May. It is also unlikely that Ubisoft will spend enough later on for the wii u's marketing push to match the other versions' release. This will certainly affect sales.

However....

1. It is likely that the loss of revenue from the wii u's release will be far less than the loss of revenue from delaying all the other versions. Remember, Ubisoft is a public company and has profit expectations that they need to try to meet on a quarterly basis.

2. The wii u version is likely delayed much further than you believe. The quotes I posted earlier imply that and you have yet to show evidence that proves otherwise. 

3. Some lost sales from the wii u version will likely go to other versions. This doesn't effect Ubisoft's bottom line as $60 for the PS3 version is as good as $60 from the wii u. No lost opportunity. 

4. Lastly, a lot of people are not pissed as you say. You are likely one of a very tiny disgruntled minority of wii u owners that 1) knows that the wii U version is delayed and 2) actually cares. This is why video game fan boycotts never work. Most people don't read vg news and forums and are largely uniformed. They still buy what they want when they see it. Hey, last year I was angry about how EA ruined Simcity. They never got my money but they sure as hell got millions from everyone else.

bolded: it's not delaying "others", it's delaying ALL versions if they couldn't get them ready

2. it got resources taken away from it several months before release, that explains the delay of several months.

3. they lost the oportunity of making the wii u version sell well and stained their name even more with nintendo fans. his stuff has cumulative negative impact for them. it's also probable that they use low sales of WD as a pathetic excuse to not release similar games.



curl-6 said:
oniyide said:
curl-6 said:
Ubisoft could use the extra time to make sure the Wii U version isn't another incompetent shovelware port, but they won't.

Expect another AC3/AC4/Splinter Cell hackjob. (Pun entirely intended)


you have not way of knowing that for sure and those are horrible examples since none of those games you mentioned were actually late ports. You are going to have to come up with harder evidence to support your claim.

My evidence is pretty every third party Wii U game ever. There's been a grand total of TWO that bothered to use the extra hardware. Two, out of dozens.

You ignore again. NONE of those games you mentioned were delayed so why would you expect them to use the extra hardware? (im assuming here you mean the gamepad and whatever graphics you think the Wii U can render) Not concerned about 3rd parties im talking Ubi's own games which again have released on time with other versions. They dont have the time to do extra crap with the WIi U and get it on the shelves with the others at the same time. its one or the other, especially considering they know the WIi U version is going to sell the least. 

Now with that being said. IF we dont see any extra HW use for the Wii U version of this game, and its being released months later, then you can complain ahead and it would be justified (not that it would change anything) but until then you dont know until you know.



Hedra42 said:

Thanks for providing this info.

Lego City Under Cover (720k) was published by Nintendo.
Monster Hunter Tri (490k) was published by Nintendo.
Resident Evil Revelations (Capcom) I can't seem to find anywhere on this site.

For the rest:

Rayman Legends 310k, X360 and PS3 are 350k and 260k (Released in 2014 PS4 110k, X1 50k) - Wii U = 29% sales
Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing Transformed 310k,   X360 and PS3 are330k and 400k - Wii U = 30% sales

Just Dance 2014 - 270k. Wii sales were 2.99 million. X360 - 770k. PS3 250k, X1 210k, PS4 170k.  Wii U = 4% sales
Just Dance 4 240k. Wii sales over 6 million. X360 1 million. PS3 340k. Wii U = 3% sales
Just Dance Wii U 20k exclusive


Skylanders Swap Force 250k. Wii sales 1.5 million. X360 910k, PS3 370k. PS4 and X1 - 140k and 130k. Wii U = 7% sales
Skylanders Giants 180k. Wii sales 2.3 million. X360 1 million. PS3 810k. Wii U = 4% sales

Lego Marvel Super Heroes 230k. X360 1 million. PS3 950k, PS4 460k, 3DS 360k, X1 310k. Wii U = 6% sales
Lego Movie 90k. X360 410k, PS3 240k, PS4 110k, X1 90k, PSV 30k, PC 10k. Wii U = 9% sales
Lego Batman 2 20k. X360 1.3 million. Wii 1.1 million. PS3 960k. DS 600k 3DS 530k. PSV 250k Wii U = 0.4% sales

(feel free to check the math)

ZombiU 660k exclusive

The high install base of 7th gen consoles has an impact on many of these figures, but where the figures are comparable, it is because the other consoles' numbers are low, not because the Wii U numbers are high.

As for the exclusives you mention, Just Dance Wii U and ZombiU (Ubisoft) only sold 680k between them.

Regarding the preorder sales, Watch Dogs may well have overtaken AC4 in preorder sales by the time AC4 was released, but it still only represents a small percentage of the overall preorders.

Looking at the snapshot of preorders at the end of  October 2013, before any delays had been announced, (PS4 120k, X1 96k and  X360 65k) - assuming that PS3 was about 30k and Wii U 20k (as I can't see them) Wii U preorders would only have made up about an estimated 6% of preorders.

Zero999 said:

Watch dogs would have a good chance of selling well on wii u, it may still sell decently but nowhere near the numbers it would get if given a fair chance.

Zombie U was given a huge chance, bundled in with the Wii U and pro controller from launch, and it wasn't profitable.

Watch Dogs may have the potential to do well in your opinion, but compared with expectations for the other versions, everything points to it being poor, regardless of any delay. Those factors include the type of audience, low install base, low preorders, and past performances of other 3rd party exclusives and cross platform games.

bold: irrelevant, the important is what the game get's by itself, not compared to others. and it's ubi's job to equalize the interest on the game between versions.

zombi u wasn't profitable because of ubi's own mismanagement. the game changed from killer freaks to zombi u, wich must have increased the costs. the important point is that the game sold very well and it keeps increasing. digital sales must be good too.