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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Coming Obamacare Shock for 170 Million Americans

Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:


American Poverty = Living in better conditions than most of the world with an opportunity to get out of poverty

Tell that to the poor in places like Detroit, Chicago or LA or any big city. If you're born poor you are likely to stay poor unless very lucky.

Its not about luck, its about working hard and developing skills.

That's how you get out of poverty and get opportunities.

What about the hard working that remain poor? By your logic, if everyone worked hard there would be no poverty. Unfortunately, the world don't work like that otherwise workers in the 3rd world countries would be among the richest in the world. They are not because of exploitation and hoarding of wealth. Admittedly, there are lazy people but most working people (actual employed people) aren't 



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Justagamer said:
the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:
Should of just funded the healthcare with taxes like the UK. You lot are only paying for a bloated army right now, a couple wars and some fascist mass spying organisations. Good priority of American government with so many in poverty!


American Poverty = Living in better conditions than most of the world with an opportunity to get out of poverty

Tell that to the poor in places like Detroit, Chicago or LA or any big city. If you're born poor you are likely to stay poor unless very lucky. Being poor is a bit of a disadvantage to doing well in the current system. And if American federal government ensured just two things, they would make things alot better for people. $15 minimum wage and a tax funded health service. Hell the money saved from eliminating the free market from core parts of healthcare would save alot of money for all.

Why else does the US spend 17% of GDP on health while European countries with a NHS style system or a mixed public/ private healthcare system spend around 8 to 10% of GDP. It certaintly adds up and its nice to known I can get treatment if I needed it without worrying about the cost.  


I find it funny when people think raising the minimum wage is the answer... What do you think happens when minimum wage goes up? The price of everything goes up too... So they'll make a little more, and spend a little more, but wind up in the same place: broke. I have a friend who manages a local Walgreens store... As soon as it was known that minimum wage was going up, prices went up on many products... One week later, he showed me a list of items, hundreds of them, that were already raised, or will soon be going up... Just by the news of minimum wage going up.... Getting a better job, not raising minimum wage, is the answer to making more money....

Funny how you think only minimum wage increases can cause inflation. There are many causes of inflation (like hiking up prices of food or fuel for example), increasing minimum wage can do this but it doesn't have to. Rather than printing more money, redistribute what there already is! The hoarding of wealth has to stop. These wealthy individuals do little with extra wealth anyway, it's just greed and is very selfish with all the suffering in the world.

Also, 'getting a better job' is easy enough to say but there are simply not enough jobs of any kind to go round. There are more workers than jobs now and because of the economic situation, there is little initiative to create any. There is no simple solution to this. Also, the current system couldn't work with everyone being wealthy, someone has to be poor under capitalism   



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

SlayerRondo said:
the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:
Should of just funded the healthcare with taxes like the UK. You lot are only paying for a bloated army right now, a couple wars and some fascist mass spying organisations. Good priority of American government with so many in poverty!


American Poverty = Living in better conditions than most of the world with an opportunity to get out of poverty

Tell that to the poor in places like Detroit, Chicago or LA or any big city. If you're born poor you are likely to stay poor unless very lucky. Being poor is a bit of a disadvantage to doing well in the current system. And if American federal government ensured just two things, they would make things alot better for people. $15 minimum wage and a tax funded health service. Hell the money saved from eliminating the free market from core parts of healthcare would save alot of money for all.

Why else does the US spend 17% of GDP on health while European countries with a NHS style system or a mixed public/ private healthcare system spend around 8 to 10% of GDP. It certaintly adds up and its nice to known I can get treatment if I needed it without worrying about the cost.  

Being born poor in the current system is a disadvantage in any part of the country and sadly people look to government for a solution to these problems. Government restrictions on labor in the forms of licenses, minimum wage and other regulatory burdens make it near impossible for those without wealthy parents and government priveleges to work their way up.

There's one thing governments should do more but don't do enough. That is to promote and encourage small and local businesses by tax breaks and such. Smaller businesses encourage greater competition and better quality goods. Unfortuantely, regulation stifles this as you said so I don't know what to say. I feel some regulations like minimum wage, hours and working condition regulations to be necessary but others like the extensive 'health and safety' rules to be over the top but it makes common sense to not expect a small business to be able to sustain similar regulations as corporations and stay afloat.

Doublethink, maybe! lol  (sorry, i read george orwell's 1984 recently) 



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Its not about luck, its about working hard and developing skills.

That's how you get out of poverty and get opportunities.

What about the hard working that remain poor? By your logic, if everyone worked hard there would be no poverty. Unfortunately, the world don't work like that otherwise workers in the 3rd world countries would be among the richest in the world. They are not because of exploitation and hoarding of wealth. Admittedly, there are lazy people but most working people (actual employed people) aren't 

Most people who work hard and ramain poor have probably made bad decisions.

For example, someone with no skills beyond a low paying job shouldn't attempt to start a family as single parent. However, we see it happen time and time again. That's where most poverty starts.

I know someone who has three kids and was working dead end jobs. The father of the children also avoided paying child support. So she went back to school, became a nurse, and now lives a comfortable life. That's how you get out of poverty, get some god damn skills.



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Justagamer said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
enditall727 said:
Figgycal said:
enditall727 said:

I have been living under a rock and haven't really cared to come out to take a peak at this.

@Spurge so basically.. what is this? Like what exactly are we supposed to do?

We are supposed to sign up for obama care for what? And how exactly do we do it?

.. And how is it going to affect our paychecks? Is it supposed to take like 10$ out of each paycheck or something?

 

Edit: i don't feel like looking it up on my own. 

Are you an adult?

I'm an infant

 

Lol

 

Yes i am and this is the part where you or somebody else says " how could you not know about this? You live in America and don't know about Obamacare?" Yada yada yada

 

I've been avoiding this Obamacare thing ever since the 1st time i attempted to look into it.

 

I know that the longer you wait, the more you will need to pay for healthcare each year or something like that. I just avoided it ever since then.

 

So just tell me how much obamacare asks you to pay each month

the penalty is $95. based on income. no penalty under the right inccome bracket.

Ok this is from when I did my taxes just a month ago or so.... The penalty for not having insurance this year, is $250, or 1% of your gross pay, whichever is higher.... Next year, the penalty goes up to around $1,000, the year after, around $2,300... That's as far as they go, for now... This is in California, don't know if it changes at all from state to state. Luckily, I have insurance through my work, for now. Someone asked how the gov is supposed to make money from this... If anyone remembers a politician bragging about how the gov would bring in over $30 billion dollars just from fines, that's how. Soon enough, insurance is going to be so fucking expensive, that even a $5,000 fine is going to look like a deal. Millions of people this year are clearly forgoing insurance and paying the small fine instead... Even if they only get the "low" fine of $250, if 10 million people decide that's the more affordable option, then this year alone, from a very conservative figure of ten million people, gives our lovely government a small sum of: $2,500,000,000.... Yes, only $2.5 billion. $2.5 billion collected from people who are not participating in, but essentially funding obamacare... It's a fucked up, giant money making sceam, made by a corrupt government, under the guise of "it's for the people".... And if any of you think I'm wrong..... Well, come back to this post in a year or two.... Or three.... But, it will ultimately be the downfall of this economy of ours... I'm sorry for the post on the back of your message... It's not directed at you, except for the part of how much the penalty is...

thanks.



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Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Its not about luck, its about working hard and developing skills.

That's how you get out of poverty and get opportunities.

What about the hard working that remain poor? By your logic, if everyone worked hard there would be no poverty. Unfortunately, the world don't work like that otherwise workers in the 3rd world countries would be among the richest in the world. They are not because of exploitation and hoarding of wealth. Admittedly, there are lazy people but most working people (actual employed people) aren't 

Most people who work hard and ramain poor have probably made bad decisions.

For example, someone with no skills beyond a low paying job shouldn't attempt to start a family as single parent. However, we see it happen time and time again. That's where most poverty starts.

I know someone who has three kids and was working dead end jobs. The father of the children also avoided paying child support. So she went back to school, became a nurse, and now lives a comfortable life. That's how you get out of poverty, get some god damn skills.

Easy enough if higher education wasn't so expensive. Even people come out of college and university but still find it hard to get jobs. Further education is a good way to do better in your career but with the amount it costs, you better work hard to get there. (and if you're poor in the first place, how are you supposed to pay to do more education? Not everyone gets government help) If the economy ever improves, you might get something out there. 

Also, i have a problem with your cause of poverty. What if these people could afford to have kids and further down the line lost their work or lost a partner or something like that? That would be beyond their own control



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

Mr Khan said:
thranx said:
Mr Khan said:
 

 

 


But people also have more money in their pockets to spend on goods and services. Why do we always neglect that part of the equation? You can't just assume that inflation is going to zero all of it out, especially since we've been in a *very* low inflation environment (QE is the only thing keeping deflation from happening. The market right now wants deflation to happen. Inflation is a boogeyman in Western societies)

Automation is going to happen anyway. That's just an inevitability, because businesses will always root around to try to figure out how to minimize labor costs, just as they'll root around to figure out how to minimize costs of all their other inputs (even I as an advocate for labor will admit that it's not some conspiracy against the working man, but neither is it a process that is kept at bay only because of low minimum wages). Companies will always be working to figure out what the bare minimum number of employees is to get the job done, and guess what: if they have to pay more, they still can't get rid of people without making the quality of the work suffer, because they've likely already cut back to only what is needed.

Note that the chili's article talked more about improving speed of service through automation, rather than about labor costs. That's why you automate.


Eh, i find that's not actually true.

If you'll note, the GFC caused a huge loss of jobs in a lot of sectors with minimal productivity loss.  Jobs that never really came back.

Companies, tned to increase employees when they need help, but only decrease employees when something forces them to or they are buisnesses with sharp seasonal curves.

I imagine this is at least partly because nobody actually likes to fire other people, partly because reducing workforce is generally seen as a negative that will hurt your stock and nobody wants to be blamed for overdownsizing their workforce when things are working great.

This is espiecally true when it requires hefty upfront costs as required with automation.

 

For example note how self checkout aisles aren't nearly as prevelent as you would expect.

Many Hospitals etc, still have paper records despite computerizing them would save a ton of time and manpower.

Jack in the Box is the only fast food place that really messes with self ordering machines.   You see them pop up in new gas stations with sandwhich shops but the old ones don't really get upgraded.

GM factories very rarely ever update their machinary... hell the GM plant i worked at STILL uses button presses for half the shop despite automatic presses have been standard for 20+ years.  


 



the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Its not about luck, its about working hard and developing skills.

That's how you get out of poverty and get opportunities.

What about the hard working that remain poor? By your logic, if everyone worked hard there would be no poverty. Unfortunately, the world don't work like that otherwise workers in the 3rd world countries would be among the richest in the world. They are not because of exploitation and hoarding of wealth. Admittedly, there are lazy people but most working people (actual employed people) aren't 

Most people who work hard and ramain poor have probably made bad decisions.

For example, someone with no skills beyond a low paying job shouldn't attempt to start a family as single parent. However, we see it happen time and time again. That's where most poverty starts.

I know someone who has three kids and was working dead end jobs. The father of the children also avoided paying child support. So she went back to school, became a nurse, and now lives a comfortable life. That's how you get out of poverty, get some god damn skills.

Easy enough if higher education wasn't so expensive. Even people come out of college and university but still find it hard to get jobs. Further education is a good way to do better in your career but with the amount it costs, you better work hard to get there. (and if you're poor in the first place, how are you supposed to pay to do more education? Not everyone gets government help) If the economy ever improves, you might get something out there. 

Also, i have a problem with your cause of poverty. What if these people could afford to have kids and further down the line lost their work or lost a partner or something like that? That would be beyond their own control

If you're poor, there are grants (free money) you can easily get from the government to attend school. Its extra easy if you have kids.

People who come out of college and unable to find a job probably chose a career with few jobs available. Many of those college graduates are also refusing jobs because they feel what they can get is below them. In my opinion, less people should go to college and consider trade schools instead.

Families that go into poverty due to losing work, illness, or death in the family are the minority. Most people living in poverty got there from poor decisions. If tax payers weren't so busy supporting people making bad decisions there would be more resources to help people that fell into hardship.



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My hours are the same. My wage increased 6% this year. My premium is the same. But...

My co-pay went up 5$. Damn you Obama!



Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Its not about luck, its about working hard and developing skills.

That's how you get out of poverty and get opportunities.

What about the hard working that remain poor? By your logic, if everyone worked hard there would be no poverty. Unfortunately, the world don't work like that otherwise workers in the 3rd world countries would be among the richest in the world. They are not because of exploitation and hoarding of wealth. Admittedly, there are lazy people but most working people (actual employed people) aren't 

Most people who work hard and ramain poor have probably made bad decisions.

For example, someone with no skills beyond a low paying job shouldn't attempt to start a family as single parent. However, we see it happen time and time again. That's where most poverty starts.

I know someone who has three kids and was working dead end jobs. The father of the children also avoided paying child support. So she went back to school, became a nurse, and now lives a comfortable life. That's how you get out of poverty, get some god damn skills.

I find it sadly depressing that people are unwilling to admit that some people should not start a family because they simply cant support them. Jobs in the fast food industry are not and will not ever be capable of supporting a family.



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