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Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama: Ignoring Russian Aggression Would Have Global Consequences

 

What does Obama hope to accomplish? alterior motive?

I will post below. 29 14.29%
 
To calm the situation down 67 33.00%
 
See results 100 49.26%
 
Total:196
Kasz216 on 31 March 2014
mai said:

Kasz216 said:

Ok....

So the former head of state security... Yakimenko knew that Nalivaychenko was working witht he CIA, giving over secret information etc....

and his response was to do absolutely nothing with that information, he didn't arrest him, accuse him, limit the SBU's power... didn't even say anything, until after he gets forced out of power.

This is the arguement you are making.

Or did he not find out about this until after he got pushed out of power?

He's referring to the period when Nalivaychenko was the head of SBU, i.e. during Yuschenko presedential term, afair he didn't even work at SBU during that time. His carrier begun just after Yanukovich came into power, Yakimenko was in charge of SBU for like two weeks or smth.

2 weeks?   More like 54+ weeks

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/president-calls-on-officials-for-joint-work-on-reform-in-sbu-318649.html

Outside which... I'm pretty sure spying and sabotaging your own government would be a crime that would have a statute of limitations greater then 3 years.

A year, I think is long enough time to clear out a day to arrest someone for sabatoging your governments intellegence agency.

Meanwhile, Yanukovich hs been president for 4 years.

So the question remains.

So 4 years, 3 SBU chiefs... and there isn't any sign of it, or complaint until after they get removed from power?



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mai on 31 March 2014

Kasz216 said:

2 weeks?   More like 54+ weeks

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/president-calls-on-officials-for-joint-work-on-reform-in-sbu-318649.html

Outside which... I'm pretty sure spying and sabotaging your own government would be a crime that would have a statute of limitations greater then 3 years.

A year, I think is long enough time to clear out a day to arrest someone for sabatoging your governments intellegence agency.

Meanwhile, Yanukovich hs been president for 4 years.

So the question remains.

So 4 years, 3 SBU chiefs... and there isn't any sign of it, or complaint until after they get removed from power?

Yes, you're right. I was quoting from memory. Confused one year with another probably.

Why he didn't arrest him I have no idea. But charges have been filed against Nalivaychenko in, afair, September 2013 by General Prosecutor (what part Yakimenko played in all this I don't know), among other things there were alleged connections with CIA, as you might expect the case was closed after coup d'etat. So that's not the first time I hear about Nalivaychenko and CIA.



vizunary on 31 March 2014

Obama is a punk and everyone knows it. Would you be scared of him?

Ahhh, missing the good ol' days... you know when the US had giant brass balls and our teabag would knock your teeth out.



Mr Khan on 31 March 2014
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
thranx said:
I think Obama has nailed the coffin for dems in the next election with how he dealt with Russia. He has made the US look weak. He has shown how naive he is if he thinks russia will stop there, how many land grabs have they done in the last decade? seems like its been stepping up not winding down. I also have to say Sarah Palin said it well, if the United States stops helping out other countries, if we take a back seat, someone will fill that void, and its most likely Russia and China. So the question is how safe do europeans feel with having Russia and China calling the shots over there? I dont think many europeans would want that. I could be wrong, i'm not european, but I wouldn't feel safe with a countries that have been on land grab sprees and military build ups on my front door step unless we are close allies already.

How many land grabs in the last decade? Uhh, one?

Crimea was the first international land-swap since Macao in 2005, the first annexation since either the West Bank by Israel or Irian Jaya by Indonesia (maybe India's seizure of parts of Kashmir post-dates it. Not sure).

Anyway, the Crimean situation is insanely far down Americans' list of priorities. 2014 is all about the Affordable Care Act, where the Republicans unfortunately seem to control the optics, but the numbers are beginning to move the democrats' way (enrollment goals supposedly being met).

Eh i'd disagree on both counts.

It was the first brazen annexation.  However the whole Georgian thing more then qualfies as a land grab as well.

Also, enrollment goals aren't being met on Obamacare.  Milestones are being hit... behind schedule, but pretty much has to happen...

and even then the milestones being hit are using a bit of slight of hand, as originally the numbers they were looking for was insured people through the exchange, when now they're citing people who sign up for insurance. ( of which anywhere between 10-20% of people will never get insurance because they won't be able to pay their premiums).

 

That said, I don't even think 2014 is about Obamacare.  I mean, it's being done pretty incompetantly, and people will complain and stuff, but it's similar to like... your DMV at this point.  It's there, and it's going to take longer then it should and be a giant pain int he ass, but it's just part of the machinery now.  At the end of the day people will care more about if they're employed/feel like jobs the economy is on an upswing.

Since the 2014 run is more legislative, it could be more focused on a referendum on that piece of legislation. Certainly the Republicans are banking on it, thinking the law more unpopular than it actually is (since a chunk of the "disapprove" percentage are the people who want France or the NHS, not a return to the pre-2009 status quo)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Kasz216 on 31 March 2014
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:

 

 

Since the 2014 run is more legislative, it could be more focused on a referendum on that piece of legislation. Certainly the Republicans are banking on it, thinking the law more unpopular than it actually is (since a chunk of the "disapprove" percentage are the people who want France or the NHS, not a return to the pre-2009 status quo)

They me banking on it, but really it's likely the shitty employment situation that will likely win them the senate.  Janet Yellen is already out and about trying to cushin that one.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304432604579473202058577752?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304432604579473202058577752.html


Hell, i'd honestly place disatisfaction over crimea above disatisfaction about healthcare as a cause for a republican victory.  The Republicans more or less torpedo'd the topic with independents and their are plenty of cold war democrats and indpendents wary of Putin.



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Mr Khan on 31 March 2014
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:

They me banking on it, but really it's likely the shitty employment situation that will likely win them the senate.  Janet Yellen is already out and about trying to cushin that one.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304432604579473202058577752?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304432604579473202058577752.html


Hell, i'd honestly place disatisfaction over crimea above disatisfaction about healthcare as a cause for a republican victory.  The Republicans more or less torpedo'd the topic with independents and their are plenty of cold war democrats and indpendents wary of Putin.

I really don't think Americans care that much, which is part of the reason we haven't done much more than talk sternly at Russia in the first place. America is doing a re-run through the old isolationist cycle of late, still in fatigue from Afghanistan. 



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Norris2k on 31 March 2014
Eddie_Raja said:
Honestly this whole situation is gonna have massive repercussions. If Russia presses any further into the Ukraine, and Europe doesn't actually try to stop them, the whole EU system could come tumbling down...

Can we really blame Russia on that ? I mean Europe have no common politic system and army, members have a dropping military budget, they went to so many unpopular wars. At their very border, their stance is so weak. Even internally... I mean Greece is not even 3% of the population and GDP of Europe, and it's such a big deal...

You can't even blame the barbarian for the crumbling and decadent Rome, so can we blame Russia whic is very reasonnable compared to barbarian and US : get at its border a territory with a majority of russian by referendum, without pillage and even war. I think were they are very reasonnable is that they are pushing so far only were they have a predictible and secure outcome.

Europe made itself in a position where it seems it will not say anything, and that's why it could happen, and that's what make the situation dangerous. If Europe has to stop Russia, we are in a crazy shitty situation, Europe have to make this situation not happen.



Kasz216 on 31 March 2014
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:

They me banking on it, but really it's likely the shitty employment situation that will likely win them the senate.  Janet Yellen is already out and about trying to cushin that one.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304432604579473202058577752?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304432604579473202058577752.html


Hell, i'd honestly place disatisfaction over crimea above disatisfaction about healthcare as a cause for a republican victory.  The Republicans more or less torpedo'd the topic with independents and their are plenty of cold war democrats and indpendents wary of Putin.

I really don't think Americans care that much, which is part of the reason we haven't done much more than talk sternly at Russia in the first place. America is doing a re-run through the old isolationist cycle of late, still in fatigue from Afghanistan. 


I don't think they care that much either, though the majority do support sanctions.

It's really more refelctive of how i think healthcare is unlikely to be a factor, even if it's the most talked about election subject.



the2real4mafol on 31 March 2014

What Russia is doing isn't great but whatever America says can't be taken seriously with all the countries they have undermined and breached.

Why do we find it so outrageous for Russia to annex Crimea (with popular support actually) when America has somehow made it acceptable to undermine the sovereignty of many countries around the world? What about Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq as well as many other countries?

If what Russia is doing is so bad, set the example Obama! Respect other countries sovereignty and mind your own business



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LiquorandGunFun on 31 March 2014

Putin knows obozo isnt going to do shit. Putin is going for Finland next, the US will not do shit.