FF13 Sucks... here's why.

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Completely agree with all the points from the OP!! Bravo!!! While we're at it, Final Fantasy X also sucked big time!!!

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TornadoCreator said:

So for FFXIII what are the core aesthetics and did it achieve them. Well it's an RPG with a focus on story and an intricate combat system that is designed to provide challenge. The game has a long length and the genre encourages customisation. As such the primary aesthetics are as follows; Narrative, Challenge, Discovery and Expression... in this order. (Interestingly they'd be in reverse order for a Western RPG due to the opposing aesthetical approach to the genre).

Narrative - Does the game tell a coherant narrative, with character delevopment, growth, and advancement of plot? Does it follow a pre-defined or abstract structure, ie. the mono-myth, the three act structure, flowing tension etc. and if so does it succeed in following or subverting it's structure? Does it contain characters that defy stereotypes, consisting of true character traits, both consistant in writing but mutable along with and in relation to the plot and the involvement of other characters? Finally, Is the storyline, and background world in which it's set, internally consistant? Final Fantasy XIII fails on all counts.

Challenge - Does the game offer a tactical obsticle and the tools by which to complete it, in order to test reaction, body, skill, or mind? Is the Challege scaling in such a way that increased skill is met with a steady flow of increased challenge such that the challenge neither becomes trivial or taxing? Again, Final Fantasy XIII fails on all counts.

Discovery - Does the game offer means by which to explore; be that exploring a world, a characters past, or even opinions and ideals? Does the game allow the player to enter in with the intention of finding something new and previously unseen? In this case, the game is inconsistant at best, as the logs at least offer some way to explore the background, but it's ultimately unfullfilling. The part where exploration would be most apparent, and where discovery is expected however, the game flat out fails on.

Lastly, Expression - Does the game offer players a way to insert themselves into the game? Does the game offer a way for the player to influence direction in the game, such as deciding equipment, class, or even appearance in order to make things unique and personalised? This can be achieved in many ways, in Minecraft for example you can mold the entire world to your liking. In most Western RPGs this is a key feature, with text trees and a customisable character to make your own. In JRPGs this is less of an issue, but choosing your materia in FF7, deciding how to junction in FF8, even choosing which way to go on the sphere grid in FFX are all ways of asserting your expression. FFXIII has none of this, with illusions of customisation at best. Failed.

By every criteria that we judge the artistic capablities of a JRPG on this game has failed. It is an OBJECTIVELY bad game!

Don't you see you're mixing your own personal, empirical subjective experience into the analysis?


Narrative: it does tell a story, with a prologue and a full clossure. Does it contains characters that defy stereotypes? (And why characters have to defy stereotypes? Is that a rule or something?) Sazh does. Narrative is good.


Challenge: game is mostly easy. Are you deeming points because the game is easy? And if you don't like it, there's challenging enemies to be found!


Discovery: you yourself admit that there's a way to explore the background of the game, but you YOURSELF call it unfullfilling. Too bad it is for you, it isn't for the rest!


Expression: weapons and accessories are present, and they do customize your character in meaningful ways. Like the one that gives you a small percentage of 100% Staggering an enemy. THERE'S CUSTOMIZATION TO BE FOUND! And remember, all characters have a specialization inside the specialization you choose on the Crystaliarium (Like Fang, which turns out to be the best Synergist).


You're just bashing a game that you didn't like, reverting to some complex analysis to masquerade the subjectiveness. It is not necessary. You can just say you didn't like the experience it offered. It is as simple as that.


But don't come and tell me FF XIII is a Bad Game Objectively and Bioshock is a Good Game Objectively, because that's plain bullshit. Narrative, Challenge, Discovery and Expression in Bioshock is a joke and not because of that the game is bad. No, it is a game: that's only the pure objective assertion here. Good, or bad, that's into the plane of subjectiveness.

the game just felt like a 50 hour long tutorial, I hate linear games, this was my most disappointing game of all time.
FFXIII-2 is slightly better but I didn't care much about the characters in the first one to recommend it, here hoping that FFXV goes back to being good (i have my doubts though since developers love tutorials)

Kazus said:

Do criminals on the run, run away in a straight line? Do they hide on a predetermined path to a City where a major conflict is preplanned into their life? Not really.

Well, I mean, that's pretty much what I did that one time I ransacked that American Embassy in Lybia. 

What would you guys recommend for someone new to FF. I'm thinking about getting X|X-2 HD for Vita.

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Soonerman said:
Completely agree with all the points from the OP!! Bravo!!! While we're at it, Final Fantasy X also sucked big time!!!

if it makes you feel better, the developers of both games were the same (not talking about Square Enix but the team that made them)

the people who are making FFXV are the ones who made Dirge Of Cerberus and FFXII so that is why its an action game.

TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:

TornadoCreator said:


1. The Story Makes No Sense.

This is the basic plot of the game. Barthandelus is a powerful creature called a fal'Cie, he controls Cocoon, a dysonsphere thing floating in the sky where all the people live. The fal'Cie want to talk to God, for reasons never explained, they believe that killing everyone (including themselves) will make God appear because... again never explained, ......




just because you were so dissapointed by other aspects of the game that you were not able to see certain plot points does not mean they weren't there.

Those cut scenes neither explain why the fal'Cie wish to call a deity, or why they think killing a shit-load of people will make one turn up. In fact all it is, is Bart blathering on about how we need to "save" the world by killing it. It's the same bullshit so many villians have said. I mean for fuck sake it's the exact same bullshit Seymour was babbling in FFX. It's a sad trope at this point, but here it's even worse because it's based on faulty logic. How the hell does killing Orphan and causing Cocoon to crash into the planet, killing everyone, result in people being "saved"... and "saved" from what exactly? What's the threat? There is no threat except this utterly pathetic plan to "save" them. It's stupidity of the highest order.

well... maybe thats the real problem a lot of "the story of ff13 makes no sence" complainers out there have, that they're simply not capable of understanding somewhat cryped phrases. i for example can tell by the words an acting bart uses in the cutscenes, that he hates the state of mindset the cocoon society is in and therefor indirectly only creates more chaos so that, better sooner than later, some kind of maker reappears and "reboots" everything. makes sence to me.

Mystro-Sama said:
What would you guys recommend for someone new to FF. I'm thinking about getting X|X-2 HD for Vita.

Any game actually since every game in the series is very much compeletely different.

FFI = pretty basic , short and sweet, do not play this until you become an FF fan since its pretty short really so you wont get the "epic" feeling of the series

FFII = has some minimal storylines but is pretty different in leveling up

FFIII = a lot like 1 but more lighthearted, my favorite of that era, I recommend the DS version, the same version is on Android if you don't have a DS, these two remakes added characters and had "Cute" 3D graphics, it fits the theme of the game though so you wont feel like it ruins it.


FFIV = the first to have a story and characters

FFV = my favorite from the era, the hardest one though, the story is more lighthearted but it has the serious moments, I CAN recommend you this but its too hard to start as your first FF game, its pretty unfair at some point the people who made it are quite sadistic or something.

FFVI = my other favorite has the best characters and best storyline of the bunch, has the most developed world and the best villian and soundtrack, I recommend this one from this era


FFVII = a lot of people find it to be the best, its pretty easy it did not age very well since it uses ugly 3D polygons which is why a lot of people want a remake.

FFVIII = pretty underrated it is hated for dumb reasons when it first came out everyone loved it but now everyone hates it because of some internet bandwagon its pretty good and had good characters good soundtrack and it aged a lot better than FFVII , some scenes still look gorgoues.

FFIX = the most underrated of the bunch and my favorite from PS1 era, it had one of the best soundtracks in all of gaming and it was pretty lighthearted compared to the two before it, the world is wonderful and very colorful its what "Fantasy"in final fantasy is all about, I recommend this one on PSN


FFX = Has excellent storyline and soundtrack, nice memorable characters and easy to get into battle system, I recommend it

FFXI = its online only, its pretty good , I don't know if its still going but its an MMO so not much to say

FFXII = Some people like it some don't I think its brilliant , has the best voice acting and best dialouge of all the Final Fantasies, its a lot more "Western" themed than the rest so there is kings , treason, blood bounds, elves, merchants, towns etc, something akin to J.R.R Tolkien and less about Japanese Novels, I recommend it IF you like Xenoblade for example or western folklore themed japanese games.

FFXIII = AVOID IT! , yep AVOID IT!, do not play this unless you've become a fan first because you will get bored and you will give up on the series because of it, its basically a looooooooooooooooooooooooooong tutorial of a game as if the developers were planning to make a sequel to it or add DLC or something, it doesn't get any good at all until 80% in when you reach near the end of the game, when it does its enjoyable... kind of but even then its not worth it.


FFXIV = still haven't played it but I heard its good, its an MMO so I'm not too eager for it.

Wright said:

Final Fantasy XIII is a game. That's it. Not good, nor bad. That's up to subjective debate.

Given how little interaction you actually had in both gameplay and story, I hardly think it qualifies as a game.  more like interactive visual experience...and a poor one at that.  

The OP has it almost perfect.  The gameplay has almost no interaction in it (pre-chose six 'battle formations' from a list of 24, actually attempting to control your character will kill anyone not an expert in the game), not to mention you only 'control' ONE of the three characters, and if they die, it's game over.  The story is 'good', but it is poorly told.  over 90% of the story is told through in-game encyclopedia, rather than woven into the narrative like a GOOD game story.  

it's just....bad.  functional, sure (with great production values), but the story and gameplay were both utter failures.  

I'm playing through FFX right now, and the story is almost as linear, but like OP said, it's actually fine because there's plenty of side quests, minigames, and exploration.  Plus the gameplay required actual thought, foreplanning, and offered you complete control of up to SEVEN characters.  

At least with XII (which allowed the game to play itself), you had a LOT of control over the precise scenarios and reactions of all six of your characters.  That, and it had a LOT of exploration, side quests, etc.  I do admit the main line story is pretty simple, and much of the actual 'story'  is in side quests and hidden content.  

I got it all, baby! 

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Wright said:

· The world was umbalanced. Killing all humans would be a reason enough to make the God from Lightning Returns come back and see the disaster, which was Barthandeus plan all along.

· Fang and Vanille sacrifice themselves as Ragnarok to save both Cocoon and Pulse. That's why they're the ones turned into crystal at the end. The rest of the party is free from the curse.


2. Gameplay.

Switching to paradigms, using items and getting ready for the enemy strike. There's gameplay here to be found. You need tactics and a certain degree of strategy. You still need to Libra enemies. You can poison them, or debuff yourself. There's ultimate techniques for each character. THere's depth here.

· It's up to you to choose a specialization for each character once you have the Crystaliarium. It is pretty doubtful that you have EVERYTHING maxed out by the time you hit Barthandeus. And still, the crystaliarium expands after that combat. You need gazilions of CP to max everything out. So it's there for a purpose.

You're actually wrong at these points Wright.

Bartandalus didn't want Bhunivelze to come; he wanted the maker.  The only way the maker would come, is if Etro opens the door to her.  This happens briefly when someone dies.  Bartandalus and Atamos wanted enough people dying at once to open up the gate long enough to get to the maker.  Note this is only vaguely said once in the game.  Even then they don't explain those floating crystal thingies that are needed to open the door (You see them floating around in Oerba).

Everyone got out of crystalization after 500 years, not because the party is free.  They actually never explained why Fang and Vanille never turned back after that 500 years and let cocoon fall down and kill whoever was crystalized (By Fang and Vanille) on Cocoon.  That part is a plot hole.

Gameplay wise; here you are technically right, except, why go through all that when 2 ravagers and a commando will get you through 90% of the battles only a second or two slower than trying?  The game turns into a huge button mashin fest.  Now if they actually balanced the game like in FF XIII-2 then everything would have been fine.

He was maxed out at Bartandalus, since the crystarium is locked until you finish the game.  Can't say he's wrong here.