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FF13 Sucks... here's why.

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ishiki said:
Kazus said:

Lol. FFXIII is objectively bad. The sales, review scores, and overwhleming negative public opinion don't lie. 

huh? Those facts aren't correct 

It got an 83 on meta, and 76 user score.

That isn't bad, it's worse than other FF's though, and definetely not spectacular .It's higher than Gran Turismo 6 though for instance.
Though that means nothing... LR is a much better game than the other 2 mechanically  imo, and it's way lower in both.

This game has issues I like it. Though it's not my favorite FF objectively bad or no.

Yeah, you're right. Bad in the sense of Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy had prestige to its name. That's just not the case anymore. When people play Final Fantasy, they expect(ed) a full out, quality RPG. That's all.



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AZWification said:
Boutros said:
LOL FFX 4/10?

Why do you even play JRPGs? What recent JRPGs were better than the recent FFs (last 10-15 years)?

Haha. Final Fantasy X is Xenoblade's bitch. Plain and simple.

No way Xenoblade is better than FFX roflmao. A few might think so but most wouldn't. Of those who played both, of course.

But Xenoblade is amongst the best of last gen that's true.



lol, I kinda enjoyed the game. Could of been better but uh, what can we do about it?..



Are you kidding? This game is AMAZING! It's SO immersive I felt like I was actually there!

While playing, I felt lost, confused, manipulated, exhausted, aimless, and lacking motivation or agency...just like the characters in the game!



I believe in honesty, civility, generosity, practicality, and impartiality.

To all trying to say the game is objectively bad, you really need to get off your high horses. ¬_¬

The aspects of the game you brought up so far are objective. Yes.

But the appreciations you have of those IS subjective.


The game being linear is an objective point.

The game being bad because it's linear is a subjective point.

Trying to say that the game is objectively bad is retardedly obnoxious. I don't know what you people are trying to get from all this by trying to shove  your opinion down everyone's throat and prove it right over the opinion of others. That's obnoxious, self-centered and incredibly childish.

Just... 





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0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
aryu said:

While I agree with some of the points made, I cannot agree with anyone who calls it a bad game. I enjoyed the game and to the OP. You do know that it can be completed in 40hours. 80hours if you're aiming for platinum. If it was really a bad game, then why are there games with lower metacritic ratings? Some really enjoyed the game and as such, it cannot be called a bad game if there is a fanbase for that particular game.

Anyway a reply to the OP: that's your opinion. I thought ff13 was good and I've played almost every single final fantasy.


There are people who really enjoy having their testicles being electrocuted.  But having your testicles electrocuted still really sucks, even if some sickos enjoy it.  Similarly, just because some deranged people enjoyed FFXIII doesn't mean it wasn't awful.

and just because you're not capable of enjoying it does not people who do are deranged.


Yup it does.  Being able to follow the storyline presented clearly demonstrates some form of mental disorder. 

ok i take it back because if someone is defined as "normal" just because they're not able to follow the overall plot of FF13 to a degree that it makes sence for them, i gladly be on the mental disorder side.

Sometimes people with disorders can do incredible things! Maybe you're like the rain man of following nonsensicle jumbled up plots.

or maybe i'm just making use of some obscure thing called "freedom of self interpretation" to a certain degree. you know a lot of people seem to hate running down hallways (gameplay wise) but they love/demand when/that everything storywise is served on a silver platter to them so that they don't have to use their "normal" heads for once. well, i prefere it the other way round but i guess that's also some form of mental disorder. geez... being normal seems to be tough these days. maybe that's why so much people are complaining that the can't enjoy things anymore. wait... "fed, nutured and ready to detonate at the slightest spark", these words suddenly make even more sence to me... i wonder why?

Very big difference between "plot being handed to you on a silver platter" and "plot making sense".  Bioshock infinite is a great example of a story that leaves plenty of room for interpretation and symbolism while still telling a cohesive storyline.  Leaving room for interpretation doesn't mean "don't explain any of the rules or logic of your world to the viewer".  It means that you craft a strong and cohesive narrative and provide them with a solid foundation and understanding of your universe, its rules, and the characters within it, so they can use that to devise educated theories and interpretations of events within the context of that universe.


FFXIII doesn't do this.  FFXIII's plot is not open to interpretation, contains no interesting metaphor or symbolism, and requires no thought.  It simply is poorly told.  The writers just withhold information that is critical to understanding the plot.  It's not a matter of interpretation, it's a matter of lacking information and not clearly explaining things like what a Fal'cie or a L'cie is and giving little information about the backstory and mythology of the world.  The only way to actually comprehend the story is to dig through the game's encyclopedia which would be fine if this were a book, or if this information was woven into the gameplay as it was with Bioshock's audiotapes. 


Imagine if you were watching Star Wars, and they never explained what the force was, or if 1984 didn't describe the various ministries, new speak, or the thought police.  This is basically what Final Fantasy does.  They forego any sort of real exposition so instead of being able to engage, interpret, relate, or disect, you're stuck trying to piece together what is happening in the first place. 

ok to make this short can we agree that maybe the way ff13 presented its ruleset and storyinformation to the player wasn't the best way but nevertheless one can make plot work by putting enough attention and some thought (self interpretation) into it?

Eh  I wouldn't agree to that.  I don't think it requires information so much as it requires outside information that should have been presented in the plot.  But, this can still be short.  If you really like the game, then go ahead and enjoy it, even if some guy on the internet thinks you're deranged for doing so :)



All i know is that Fang and Vanille are lesbians, so it has to be better than any FF game that doesn't have lesbians.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
aryu said:

While I agree with some of the points made, I cannot agree with anyone who calls it a bad game. I enjoyed the game and to the OP. You do know that it can be completed in 40hours. 80hours if you're aiming for platinum. If it was really a bad game, then why are there games with lower metacritic ratings? Some really enjoyed the game and as such, it cannot be called a bad game if there is a fanbase for that particular game.

Anyway a reply to the OP: that's your opinion. I thought ff13 was good and I've played almost every single final fantasy.


There are people who really enjoy having their testicles being electrocuted.  But having your testicles electrocuted still really sucks, even if some sickos enjoy it.  Similarly, just because some deranged people enjoyed FFXIII doesn't mean it wasn't awful.

and just because you're not capable of enjoying it does not people who do are deranged.


Yup it does.  Being able to follow the storyline presented clearly demonstrates some form of mental disorder. 

ok i take it back because if someone is defined as "normal" just because they're not able to follow the overall plot of FF13 to a degree that it makes sence for them, i gladly be on the mental disorder side.

Sometimes people with disorders can do incredible things! Maybe you're like the rain man of following nonsensicle jumbled up plots.

or maybe i'm just making use of some obscure thing called "freedom of self interpretation" to a certain degree. you know a lot of people seem to hate running down hallways (gameplay wise) but they love/demand when/that everything storywise is served on a silver platter to them so that they don't have to use their "normal" heads for once. well, i prefere it the other way round but i guess that's also some form of mental disorder. geez... being normal seems to be tough these days. maybe that's why so much people are complaining that the can't enjoy things anymore. wait... "fed, nutured and ready to detonate at the slightest spark", these words suddenly make even more sence to me... i wonder why?

Very big difference between "plot being handed to you on a silver platter" and "plot making sense".  Bioshock infinite is a great example of a story that leaves plenty of room for interpretation and symbolism while still telling a cohesive storyline.  Leaving room for interpretation doesn't mean "don't explain any of the rules or logic of your world to the viewer".  It means that you craft a strong and cohesive narrative and provide them with a solid foundation and understanding of your universe, its rules, and the characters within it, so they can use that to devise educated theories and interpretations of events within the context of that universe.


FFXIII doesn't do this.  FFXIII's plot is not open to interpretation, contains no interesting metaphor or symbolism, and requires no thought.  It simply is poorly told.  The writers just withhold information that is critical to understanding the plot.  It's not a matter of interpretation, it's a matter of lacking information and not clearly explaining things like what a Fal'cie or a L'cie is and giving little information about the backstory and mythology of the world.  The only way to actually comprehend the story is to dig through the game's encyclopedia which would be fine if this were a book, or if this information was woven into the gameplay as it was with Bioshock's audiotapes. 


Imagine if you were watching Star Wars, and they never explained what the force was, or if 1984 didn't describe the various ministries, new speak, or the thought police.  This is basically what Final Fantasy does.  They forego any sort of real exposition so instead of being able to engage, interpret, relate, or disect, you're stuck trying to piece together what is happening in the first place. 

ok to make this short can we agree that maybe the way ff13 presented its ruleset and storyinformation to the player wasn't the best way but nevertheless one can make plot work by putting enough attention and some thought (self interpretation) into it?

Eh  I wouldn't agree to that.  I don't think it requires information so much as it requires outside information that should have been presented in the plot.  But, this can still be short.  If you really like the game, then go ahead and enjoy it, even if some guy on the internet thinks you're deranged for doing so :)

deal.



0815user said:
TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:
TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:

*snip*


Don't insult my intelligence. It still neither explain why the fal'Cie wish to call a deity, or why they think killing a shit-load of people will make one turn up. It explains nothing. It's a leap of logic that makes no sense. How do you make the jump from "hates the state of mindset the cocoon society" to "let's call God to change it". How can he justify his actions. Why would creating more chaos and killing everyone make God turn up, there's no justification for this assumption. Why would God "reboot" everything, there's no justification for this assumption. What fucking good is all this if you're dead? Never considered. How are you going to "talk to God" if you're already dead? Never explained....

This is not a case of me "no getting it", I understood the story in perfect clarity thank you, that's why I can see the many many ridiculous plot holes and massive amounts of circular logic. Trying to make me out to be an idiot who just doesn't get it isn't going to work, so stop it; the fact is the story is pants on head retarded and you're just too much of a fanboy to admit that.

would it help if there were some kind of reference to an old religious script in ff13, similar to bible, koran or other ancient teachings in our world, with concepts like the flood our judgement day to answer your questions?

Not especially no, it would be a flimsy reference that's hidden in a datalog (amongst the what must hundreds of datalogs), which makes no sense for the fal'Cie to put so much stock into, and would only serve to highlight how terrible the story is because it's never actually covered in gameplay, mentioned by the characters, or even hinted at by the world. It would be a perfect example of a total failure to grasp the concept of "show don't tell".

In short, I already know about the datalog, it's a vague poem that was presumably written by a human and has no backing behind it that would assign it any greater value than any other random peice of artistic expression. It's lazy grasping and even then it's so bady written I'd claim it doesn't qualify as an explaination. Hell they even hide it in the Analects which is the "unimportant fluff peices" section. Comparing that to the Bible or Koran is quite frankly insulting, and I'm an atheist, so that says something.

just for curiosity: what was the last jrpg type game you enjoyed?

Hmm, probably Resonance Of Fate; though I've not actually played Bravely Default through yet and I'm not sure if Fire Emblem: Awakening or Pokémon Y would count as they have less traditional JRPG gameplay. I'm a big fan of Lost Odyssey though, that was really good, particularly the combat system and the memory retrieval dynamic.



brendude13 said:
TornadoCreator said:

No-ones tastes can ever be wrong. Hell, if anything FFXIII should have an easy time convincing me as it works alongside my biases. I'm perfectly prepared to admit, honestly FFX is kinda crappy, for many of the same reasons the FFXIII is... however it does enough right that I'm willing to overlook it's shortcomings and really enjoy it. I've completed it at least 4 times now and when the HD collection gets here on Vita, I'll do it again. Hell, I'll probably play through FFX-2 again too (and that's really stretching).

The problem I have, is while I'm happy to admit that FFX is a 4/10 game that I enjoy despite it's flaws, I consider FFXIII a 2/10 game with little to redeem it, even to fans of the franchise, style, and genre... which includes me. Look at me, my all time favourite game is FFVIII; I'm the target audience for this game. If I don't like it, it's a failure.

Now, if you like it great. You've found joy in something that objectively isn't very good... and I'm happy for you. I enjoy terrible b-movies, me and two of my friends have regular pizza nights where we watch such things. Low production horror and 80's action. Films that are objectively bad, but we enjoy them in ways that are not the original intention of the creator and so find fun in something that should be considered awful by everyone.

Admitting that your tastes and biases change your ability to judge quality, and cause you to both underrate AND overrate things, and to make the effort to learn to assess objective quality seperately to your own subjective tastes is a sign of mental maturity. It shows that you're in control of your ego. It's a good thing to achieve.

99% of gamers and gaming journalists would not agree that Final Fantasy X is objectively a 4/10 game.

I enjoyed Final Fantasy XIII exactly how the developers intended me to.

Declaring your opinion as definitive and saying that only you are capable of assessing objective quality is a display of modesty and maturity? Boy, now I'm confused.

99% of gamers and gaming journalists seem to think a 7.5/10 is "average" and rage when games "only" get an 8/10.

I'm NOT declaring my opinion as definitive. I LIKE FFX and would personally consider it a great game, probably worthy of a 7/10 maybe more; for me personally. Objectively however it's a below average JRPG with poor pacing, and restrictive design elements therefore it's a 4/10. If 5/10 is average, it is a 4/10 game. Done!

For me personally FFVIII is an easy 10/10, and a game that defined my teen years. I love it... but it's not worth that objectively and I bloody well know it.

Read my bloody posts. Listen to what I'm saying. How many people are going to claim the same crap, that I'm "declaring my opinion as objective", when I'm clearly not. They're clearly different. Either you're all willfully ignorant, lying, or profoundly stupid. Have some integrity and stop misrepresenting my position.

Edit: Also, I'm not the only person capable of assessing objective quality. Others in this very thread have demonstrated the exact same capabilities and share my assessment of the game. FFXIII isn't even debatable. It's clearly a bad game and anyone with even basic critiquing skill can see that. The challenge is with games that are far more nuanced; where the methods and styles of play are more subjective and harder to pinpoint. For example Saint's Row: The Third, Demon's Souls, Assassin's Creed or most of the games of the Legend Of Zelda series. Regardless of what you think of them, it's far more involved to judge them. Judging FFXIII is babies first critique and if you can't see that it's awful I genuinely not know how to relay that information to you... you simply don't understand the fundamentals of autuer theory.

~Mod Edit~

This post has been moderated.

-Smeags