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Forums - Gaming Discussion - FF13 Sucks... here's why.

TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:
TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:

TornadoCreator said:

......

1. The Story Makes No Sense.

This is the basic plot of the game. Barthandelus is a powerful creature called a fal'Cie, he controls Cocoon, a dysonsphere thing floating in the sky where all the people live. The fal'Cie want to talk to God, for reasons never explained, they believe that killing everyone (including themselves) will make God appear because... again never explained, ......

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWuwoPmHqnE&list=PLBCAFEE295216C73C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Gzgb9bgr0&list=PLBCAFEE295216C73C

just because you were so dissapointed by other aspects of the game that you were not able to see certain plot points does not mean they weren't there.


Those cut scenes neither explain why the fal'Cie wish to call a deity, or why they think killing a shit-load of people will make one turn up. In fact all it is, is Bart blathering on about how we need to "save" the world by killing it. It's the same bullshit so many villians have said. I mean for fuck sake it's the exact same bullshit Seymour was babbling in FFX. It's a sad trope at this point, but here it's even worse because it's based on faulty logic. How the hell does killing Orphan and causing Cocoon to crash into the planet, killing everyone, result in people being "saved"... and "saved" from what exactly? What's the threat? There is no threat except this utterly pathetic plan to "save" them. It's stupidity of the highest order.

well... maybe thats the real problem a lot of "the story of ff13 makes no sence" complainers out there have, that they're simply not capable of understanding somewhat cryped phrases. i for example can tell by the words an acting bart uses in the cutscenes, that he hates the state of mindset the cocoon society is in and therefor indirectly only creates more chaos so that, better sooner than later, some kind of maker reappears and "reboots" everything. makes sence to me.


Don't insult my intelligence. It still neither explain why the fal'Cie wish to call a deity, or why they think killing a shit-load of people will make one turn up. It explains nothing. It's a leap of logic that makes no sense. How do you make the jump from "hates the state of mindset the cocoon society" to "let's call God to change it". How can he justify his actions. Why would creating more chaos and killing everyone make God turn up, there's no justification for this assumption. Why would God "reboot" everything, there's no justification for this assumption. What fucking good is all this if you're dead? Never considered. How are you going to "talk to God" if you're already dead? Never explained....

This is not a case of me "no getting it", I understood the story in perfect clarity thank you, that's why I can see the many many ridiculous plot holes and massive amounts of circular logic. Trying to make me out to be an idiot who just doesn't get it isn't going to work, so stop it; the fact is the story is pants on head retarded and you're just too much of a fanboy to admit that.

would it help if there were some kind of reference to an old religious script in ff13, similar to bible, koran or other ancient teachings in our world, with concepts like the flood our judgement day to answer your questions?



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Wow, this thread is amazing!



I agree OP the whole thing sucked, mainly for me it was the shitastic combat system. Holy shit is it terrible.



 

Agreed FFXIII is probably the worst AAA jrpg ever.



0815user said:
TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:

*snip*


Don't insult my intelligence. It still neither explain why the fal'Cie wish to call a deity, or why they think killing a shit-load of people will make one turn up. It explains nothing. It's a leap of logic that makes no sense. How do you make the jump from "hates the state of mindset the cocoon society" to "let's call God to change it". How can he justify his actions. Why would creating more chaos and killing everyone make God turn up, there's no justification for this assumption. Why would God "reboot" everything, there's no justification for this assumption. What fucking good is all this if you're dead? Never considered. How are you going to "talk to God" if you're already dead? Never explained....

This is not a case of me "no getting it", I understood the story in perfect clarity thank you, that's why I can see the many many ridiculous plot holes and massive amounts of circular logic. Trying to make me out to be an idiot who just doesn't get it isn't going to work, so stop it; the fact is the story is pants on head retarded and you're just too much of a fanboy to admit that.

would it help if there were some kind of reference to an old religious script in ff13, similar to bible, koran or other ancient teachings in our world, with concepts like the flood our judgement day to answer your questions?

Not especially no, it would be a flimsy reference that's hidden in a datalog (amongst the what must hundreds of datalogs), which makes no sense for the fal'Cie to put so much stock into, and would only serve to highlight how terrible the story is because it's never actually covered in gameplay, mentioned by the characters, or even hinted at by the world. It would be a perfect example of a total failure to grasp the concept of "show don't tell".

In short, I already know about the datalog, it's a vague poem that was presumably written by a human and has no backing behind it that would assign it any greater value than any other random peice of artistic expression. It's lazy grasping and even then it's so bady written I'd claim it doesn't qualify as an explaination. Hell they even hide it in the Analects which is the "unimportant fluff peices" section. Comparing that to the Bible or Koran is quite frankly insulting, and I'm an atheist, so that says something.



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JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
0815user said:
JWeinCom said:
aryu said:

While I agree with some of the points made, I cannot agree with anyone who calls it a bad game. I enjoyed the game and to the OP. You do know that it can be completed in 40hours. 80hours if you're aiming for platinum. If it was really a bad game, then why are there games with lower metacritic ratings? Some really enjoyed the game and as such, it cannot be called a bad game if there is a fanbase for that particular game.

Anyway a reply to the OP: that's your opinion. I thought ff13 was good and I've played almost every single final fantasy.


There are people who really enjoy having their testicles being electrocuted.  But having your testicles electrocuted still really sucks, even if some sickos enjoy it.  Similarly, just because some deranged people enjoyed FFXIII doesn't mean it wasn't awful.

and just because you're not capable of enjoying it does not people who do are deranged.


Yup it does.  Being able to follow the storyline presented clearly demonstrates some form of mental disorder. 

ok i take it back because if someone is defined as "normal" just because they're not able to follow the overall plot of FF13 to a degree that it makes sence for them, i gladly be on the mental disorder side.

Sometimes people with disorders can do incredible things! Maybe you're like the rain man of following nonsensicle jumbled up plots.

or maybe i'm just making use of some obscure thing called "freedom of self interpretation" to a certain degree. you know a lot of people seem to hate running down hallways (gameplay wise) but they love/demand when/that everything storywise is served on a silver platter to them so that they don't have to use their "normal" heads for once. well, i prefere it the other way round but i guess that's also some form of mental disorder. geez... being normal seems to be tough these days. maybe that's why so much people are complaining that the can't enjoy things anymore. wait... "fed, nutured and ready to detonate at the slightest spark", these words suddenly make even more sence to me... i wonder why?

Very big difference between "plot being handed to you on a silver platter" and "plot making sense".  Bioshock infinite is a great example of a story that leaves plenty of room for interpretation and symbolism while still telling a cohesive storyline.  Leaving room for interpretation doesn't mean "don't explain any of the rules or logic of your world to the viewer".  It means that you craft a strong and cohesive narrative and provide them with a solid foundation and understanding of your universe, its rules, and the characters within it, so they can use that to devise educated theories and interpretations of events within the context of that universe.


FFXIII doesn't do this.  FFXIII's plot is not open to interpretation, contains no interesting metaphor or symbolism, and requires no thought.  It simply is poorly told.  The writers just withhold information that is critical to understanding the plot.  It's not a matter of interpretation, it's a matter of lacking information and not clearly explaining things like what a Fal'cie or a L'cie is and giving little information about the backstory and mythology of the world.  The only way to actually comprehend the story is to dig through the game's encyclopedia which would be fine if this were a book, or if this information was woven into the gameplay as it was with Bioshock's audiotapes. 


Imagine if you were watching Star Wars, and they never explained what the force was, or if 1984 didn't describe the various ministries, new speak, or the thought police.  This is basically what Final Fantasy does.  They forego any sort of real exposition so instead of being able to engage, interpret, relate, or disect, you're stuck trying to piece together what is happening in the first place. 

ok to make this short can we agree that maybe the way ff13 presented its ruleset and storyinformation to the player wasn't the best way but nevertheless one can make plot work by putting enough attention and some thought (self interpretation) into it?



TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:
TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:

*snip*


Don't insult my intelligence. It still neither explain why the fal'Cie wish to call a deity, or why they think killing a shit-load of people will make one turn up. It explains nothing. It's a leap of logic that makes no sense. How do you make the jump from "hates the state of mindset the cocoon society" to "let's call God to change it". How can he justify his actions. Why would creating more chaos and killing everyone make God turn up, there's no justification for this assumption. Why would God "reboot" everything, there's no justification for this assumption. What fucking good is all this if you're dead? Never considered. How are you going to "talk to God" if you're already dead? Never explained....

This is not a case of me "no getting it", I understood the story in perfect clarity thank you, that's why I can see the many many ridiculous plot holes and massive amounts of circular logic. Trying to make me out to be an idiot who just doesn't get it isn't going to work, so stop it; the fact is the story is pants on head retarded and you're just too much of a fanboy to admit that.

would it help if there were some kind of reference to an old religious script in ff13, similar to bible, koran or other ancient teachings in our world, with concepts like the flood our judgement day to answer your questions?

Not especially no, it would be a flimsy reference that's hidden in a datalog (amongst the what must hundreds of datalogs), which makes no sense for the fal'Cie to put so much stock into, and would only serve to highlight how terrible the story is because it's never actually covered in gameplay, mentioned by the characters, or even hinted at by the world. It would be a perfect example of a total failure to grasp the concept of "show don't tell".

In short, I already know about the datalog, it's a vague poem that was presumably written by a human and has no backing behind it that would assign it any greater value than any other random peice of artistic expression. It's lazy grasping and even then it's so bady written I'd claim it doesn't qualify as an explaination. Hell they even hide it in the Analects which is the "unimportant fluff peices" section. Comparing that to the Bible or Koran is quite frankly insulting, and I'm an atheist, so that says something.

just for curiosity: what was the last jrpg type game you enjoyed?



TornadoCreator said:

No-ones tastes can ever be wrong. Hell, if anything FFXIII should have an easy time convincing me as it works alongside my biases. I'm perfectly prepared to admit, honestly FFX is kinda crappy, for many of the same reasons the FFXIII is... however it does enough right that I'm willing to overlook it's shortcomings and really enjoy it. I've completed it at least 4 times now and when the HD collection gets here on Vita, I'll do it again. Hell, I'll probably play through FFX-2 again too (and that's really stretching).

The problem I have, is while I'm happy to admit that FFX is a 4/10 game that I enjoy despite it's flaws, I consider FFXIII a 2/10 game with little to redeem it, even to fans of the franchise, style, and genre... which includes me. Look at me, my all time favourite game is FFVIII; I'm the target audience for this game. If I don't like it, it's a failure.

Now, if you like it great. You've found joy in something that objectively isn't very good... and I'm happy for you. I enjoy terrible b-movies, me and two of my friends have regular pizza nights where we watch such things. Low production horror and 80's action. Films that are objectively bad, but we enjoy them in ways that are not the original intention of the creator and so find fun in something that should be considered awful by everyone.

Admitting that your tastes and biases change your ability to judge quality, and cause you to both underrate AND overrate things, and to make the effort to learn to assess objective quality seperately to your own subjective tastes is a sign of mental maturity. It shows that you're in control of your ego. It's a good thing to achieve.

99% of gamers and gaming journalists would not agree that Final Fantasy X is objectively a 4/10 game.

I enjoyed Final Fantasy XIII exactly how the developers intended me to.

Declaring your opinion as definitive and saying that only you are capable of assessing objective quality is a display of modesty and maturity? Boy, now I'm confused.



we knew this since 2010 no need to revisit this in 2014....



LOL FFX 4/10?

Why do you even play JRPGs? What recent JRPGs were better than the recent FFs (last 10-15 years)?