| brendude13 said: Thanks for the very original and refreshing thread, OP. |
No-ones tastes can ever be wrong. Hell, if anything FFXIII should have an easy time convincing me as it works alongside my biases. I'm perfectly prepared to admit, honestly FFX is kinda crappy, for many of the same reasons the FFXIII is... however it does enough right that I'm willing to overlook it's shortcomings and really enjoy it. I've completed it at least 4 times now and when the HD collection gets here on Vita, I'll do it again. Hell, I'll probably play through FFX-2 again too (and that's really stretching).
The problem I have, is while I'm happy to admit that FFX is a 4/10 game that I enjoy despite it's flaws, I consider FFXIII a 2/10 game with little to redeem it, even to fans of the franchise, style, and genre... which includes me. Look at me, my all time favourite game is FFVIII; I'm the target audience for this game. If I don't like it, it's a failure.
Now, if you like it great. You've found joy in something that objectively isn't very good... and I'm happy for you. I enjoy terrible b-movies, me and two of my friends have regular pizza nights where we watch such things. Low production horror and 80's action. Films that are objectively bad, but we enjoy them in ways that are not the original intention of the creator and so find fun in something that should be considered awful by everyone.
Admitting that your tastes and biases change your ability to judge quality, and cause you to both underrate AND overrate things, and to make the effort to learn to assess objective quality seperately to your own subjective tastes is a sign of mental maturity. It shows that you're in control of your ego. It's a good thing to achieve.
LemonSlice said:
Should I just point something out? That's the first area, and considering where it takes place, it makes sense to look that way. Introductory levels in many games are often very straight-forward. |
Yes but this doesn't change after the 1st area. The whole game is basically the same kind of linear corridors.
| Fayceless said: This game came out over 4 years ago, why are you ranting about it now? Though, I guess I can understand a little. I've gone on about how and why I dislike FF12. But the big thing to understand about 13 is that, because of the way the combat works, your enjoyment of the game is highly dependent on your personality. There are those who like to tinker, experiment, try new things, never satisfied by just doing what works. These people enjoy FF13. Then there are those who like to find what works, and stick with it. There's no need for them to alter what they do when it works just fine. These people don't enjoy FF13. I am one of the former, never doing things the same way twice. It drives some people crazy but that's just who I am. I quite enjoyed FF13, despite it's long list of flaws. The gameplay was enjoyable to me - constantly experimenting with paradigms and trying new things - and so I liked it. The graphics and music were a plus, too. I couldn't play the game twice, however: it takes WAY too long to really get things going. |
Which is fine. You found a way to take a bad game and find enjoyment out of it. In the same way that me and my friends take bad b-list horror movies like Mammoth and One Eyed Monster and find enjoyment out of them. We know they're bad but we find them amusing. I actually greatly enjoy micro-management, I like games like Civilization IV, Tropico 4, and the Rollercoaster Tycoon series. I've played through FFX multiple times just so I could try something different on the expert sphere grid. (Seriously, playing the game with everyone as a Black Mage is genuinely challenging). FFXIII didn't have anywhere close to the customisation needed to make that work...
...what you're suggesting is an aesthetic of play, it's something I've previously gone over. The one you're aluding to is Expression, and honestly, FFXIII was one of the worst at realising that. None of the changes carried weight. Now, if you enjoyed it, great, but there are far better games for that kind of gameplay and it's not worth the restrictions, the terrible story, or the hours upon hours of "game" to open up the system to allow that experimentation in the first place.
| HylianSwordsman said: Wow, sounds like this game earned all its hate. I'm kind of torn now. I like to play good games, but sometimes I like to play games that are terrible simply because they are terrible, much like people purposefully watch bad movies. I'm especially likely to do this if it's from a series I like. Example: Other M. I love Metroid, but waited to get the game for $5 and went in with low but not abysmal expectations, and was thoroughly disappointed with the quality, but I didn't have to play the game and did anyway, completing it 100%. It's like I have a morbid curiousity to see my favorite series at their worst. Of course, XIII still isn't the worst Final Fantasy. That record belongs to the original version of XIV, holy shit. If XIII wouldn't take ungodly amounts of time to play through, I might give it the Other M treatment. It's interesting, you can learn a lot about game design by playing through horrifically flawed games like that, and it can be good for laughs and stories when you tell people just how bad things were, and how stupid the designers were. I certainly got a lot of laughs out of that OP. It's even more fun to play the terrible games with friends, and show off the worst parts. |
You know, going into the game like that, you'll probably have a lot of fun with it. This game is rife for a riff-track as they have outright bizzare design choices that make no sense. Honestly though, look up "The Spoony Experiment", he does a 6 part comedic spoof of the game which is a little under 3 hours in total. It's quite funny, and will likely get you the same enjoyment without having to waste time on the game. I spent a little over 80 hours on this game, I specifically read most of the bloody datalogs because I wanted so bad to enjoy this game... but then I played it only a few weeks after release.
Runa216 said:
No, do you not understand the difference between subjective and objective? I just gave a series of OBJECTIVE Reasons why FFXIII is a failure of a game and narrative. my OPINION is that it is an abbhorent mess that tarnishes the legacy of all other Final Fantasy games by proxy. Ugly, stupid, audubly atrocious, full of terrible shit from beginning to end...But that's due to prolonged exposure to it and its apologists. When I initially played it, I found its flaws to greatly overshadow its many, MANY shortcomings. I can identify the difference between objective issues and subjective issues. IT is objectively shallow, linear, and a poor excuse for interactive media. it is subjectively the worst game I have ever played, and the biggest kick to my balls I have ever experienced. You can like it. You can enjoy the in-game encyclopedia. You are free to have fun with that 6-formation gameplay. That doesn't change the fact that it is poorly told and neither its story nor gameplay are appropriate for its chosen type of media. it's a fine story, it even has potential as a game, but it is not a good JRPG. it is not a good job. |
Well said!
TornadoCreator said:
|
Hmm, good tip, I'll check it out. An 80+ hour RPG is just a bit too long for what I'd be playing it for.
| vivster said: So what about people who like both oldschool and new FFs? Is their taste screwed up beyond help? |
No, not at all... perhaps they're overlooking the flaws in the later games because they see elements they enjoyed in the previous games still present. Hell, I do that with FFX which is on an objective scale, rather poor and under-realised, but I admittedly really like it and have quite an attachment to characters like Yuna, Auron, and Rikku who I related to and enjoyed seeing go though their story. (Tidus isn't as bad as people make out either, even if he is an idiot at times... he's an idealist and is supposed to be naive. If anything him being annoying shows he's fairly well written ironically).
The other possibility is they're fanboys who can't bare to admit that a game carrying the Final Fantasy name is bad. I struggled. It's my favourite franchise... I convinced myself I liked FFX-2, I told myself the franchise would be good. I even played FFXIII and told myself for 30+ hours that it was just getting going and it'd all fall into place soon and be worth it; but it wasn't. Nostalgia and emotional connections to franchises where you've invested so much time, that's hard to break.
| Runa216 said: Again, you even posted the damn definition of nonlinear, and fail to see how previous FF games can be considered nonlinear. Example: In Final Fantasy VII, upon leaving midgar, you can do one of a half dozen different things, one of which being the next step in the story. There are areas to explore, a chocobo ranch, an optional boss, hidden areas, etc. I gave that perfect example, and yet you ignored it, then continued to argue your point with broken grammar and 'haha' as a form of punctuation. It's very clear you can't be reasoned with if you can't even be bothered to apply your own logic to arguments that aren't yours. Like I said, I JUST gave a series of examples of nonlinear gameplay in Final Fantasies, and you still claim that 'mpt FF Anything" is linear (yet still follow that up with 'best of both worlds' sentiment." My point is that XIII is TOO linear. previous games wERE best of both worlds experiences (a point I brng up in one of my old articles I wrote a few years back), but FFXIII takes half of that away by stripping all the side content away that has helped previous FF games transcend the strict linear reputation most JRPG's have, which would have been cool if only the story was interesting and well told enough to make up for the complete lack of depth or exploration in Gran Pulse or Coccoon. And we're not talking about XIII-2 or Lightning returns. We can all agree that, gameplay wise, those games were 'better' than XIII, at least from the perspective of someone who likes a bit of freedom in their games. |
I posted the definition because you don't know it.
What don't you understand about my comments? You obviously don't even understand the definition because now you back pedal, and just state that FFXIII is now TOO linear for you. FFXIII is a 3 part series you seem to not understand this. The first one begins linearly, once on Gran Pulse you decide your path.
The pre rendered zoom out from Midgar is after you click New Game. I saw someone on this forums state that recently as well, and how they were blown away. Well in the actual game when you leave Midgar there's nothing to it have a look. Oh how time warps a mans reality. They remembering the demo and new game, not the actual point in game where you leave Midgar. FF7 is the first in the series to use 3D computer graphics, featuring fully rendered characters on pre-rendered backgrounds, and was the first game in the main series to be released in Europe. Those points explain the sales over FF 1-6 imho. And in FF 1-6 the games generally become more non-linear when you get an airship. So let me clue you in. They're all different in certain aspects. Like "we" don't know that haha. If you played FFXIII all the way through you would realize it wasn't linear all the way through now would you? If you played FFXIII-2 you would realize it gets to the open world/less linear gameplay just as fast as FF7. But you don't play FFXIII as a trilogy of games the way they're designed to be played, you cherry pick and you live in the past and parrot the complainers and boo-hooers who never got to Gran Pulse of FFXIII-2.
For your last statement we're not talking about XIII-2 or Lightning returns. then why you talkin about Midgar and FF7? Why can't you understand FFXIII is a trilogy. And to completely understand the story do you ever read 1/3 of a book, and go to a book forums and boo-hoo that you didn't understand said book? Come on man! Ka Kaw much Runa216? Haha!
ICStats said:
Yes but this doesn't change after the 1st area. The whole game is basically the same kind of linear corridors. |
Ka-Kawww!! Wait wahhh? This is Gran Pulse for those not in the know.
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