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Kojima wants Snake in the new Smash Bros., but itís not likely to happen

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Kojima wants Snake in the new Smash Bros., but itís not likely to happen

Carl2291 said:
RolStoppable said:

Super Smash Bros. is an IP that is about iconic video game characters and series. It's about legends and legacy. Solid Snake and Metal Gear Solid don't fit this theme, so they should have never been included in Brawl. 

For this, I hope they actually come to an agreement for MGS2 Raiden.

SSB's female cast is big enough as it is.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

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seiya19 said:
oniyide said:
We do know that Simon Belmost isnt anywhere CLOSE to the popularity of Snake right?

Yes. But as I mentioned before, there are other factors at stake. The most important thing here is to choose a character that fits the series and is appealing to the Smash audience. And since said audience is comprised of Nintendo fans, then a strong presence on said platforms is quite relevant. It doesn't have to be the most popular character, just popular enough.

If it were purely a popularity contest, then Mega Man wouldn't be in. Even just looking at Capcom, Leon S. Kennedy is arguably more popular, and probably around as popular as Snake. But Mega Man was one of the most requested 3rd party characters from Nintendo fans, and he fits the nature of the game more. The same applies to Simon Belmont and Bomberman, in my opinion.

Of course, these are far from being the only alternatives... Not to mention how you don't even have to put another 3rd party character in there. There's plenty of Nintendo characters that could benefit from being on Smash, like Marth, Roy, Lucas and Pit were, while being appealing on its own.


I dont agree with your first paragraph, no matter what people on the internet want you to believe gamers do not consist of JUST Ninty fans. that makes no sense. You can be a Ninty fan and a Sony fan and a MS fan all at once, so no the audience is not just Ninty fans, otherwise people wouldnt have been hyped for Snake as they were, hell he was more hyped than Mega Man. What is the creteria for "strong" presence? When was the last time Mega Man had a strong presence on Nintendo? Anywhere really? he's been multiplat for a while. As for Simon, my thing is he's such an old character that most people playing wont even know who he is, even in his own series he's not the most popular guy, that goes to Alucard. But i guess he cant show up since it would be no different than Snake.



oniyide said:

I dont agree with your first paragraph, no matter what people on the internet want you to believe gamers do not consist of JUST Ninty fans. that makes no sense. You can be a Ninty fan and a Sony fan and a MS fan all at once, so no the audience is not just Ninty fans, otherwise people wouldnt have been hyped for Snake as they were, hell he was more hyped than Mega Man. What is the creteria for "strong" presence? When was the last time Mega Man had a strong presence on Nintendo? Anywhere really? he's been multiplat for a while. As for Simon, my thing is he's such an old character that most people playing wont even know who he is, even in his own series he's not the most popular guy, that goes to Alucard. But i guess he cant show up since it would be no different than Snake.

I just said that the Smash audience is comprised of Nintendo fans, nothing about them being only that. You can indeed be a Metal Gear fan and a Nintendo one, they're not mutually exclusive. Still, how good are those odds when the franchise regularly ignores said platforms like the plague ? When even Xbox and PC get the games before them ? The lack of exposure makes it more unlikely to get fans there, and Konami/Kojima don't seem to have much intention to change that. They themselves seem to think the audience is not a good match for the franchise, so why should Nintendo/Sakurai feel differently ?

The criteria to choose these characters will always be arguable, but it would be ridiculous to argue that Snake is just as much tied to Nintendo platforms as Mega Man. Mega Man (classic) has appeared on at least 16 games by my count on Nintendo platforms, not counting late ports (anniversary collection, etc), and his first 7 main games (and Rockman and Forte) were originally on Nintendo platforms exclusively. That's a strong presence. The fact that 9 and 10 weren't exclusive doesn't matter as much here, because it was still there at the same time, unlike every new main Solid game. And he was very well received. I don't know where you got the idea that Snake was more hyped... That's not my impression.

Whether Simon is less popular than Alucard or not, I don't know, but I do know that he's fondly remembered by many Nintendo fans from his NES, GB and SNES appearances, and he has been on far more around as much or more games as Alucard. Either way, he would be the best rep for Castlevania on Smash, a franchise that has always being close to Nintendo platforms. Younger Nintendo fans might not know him as much, true, but at least he and his franchise is largely available for them on these platforms.

Again, I don't see why Snake should have priority over these characters when he has already been on Smash, barely appears on Nintendo platforms, and has closer ties with Sony ones. It should be obvious by now that many Nintendo fans would even react negatively to him being there again, the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish here. Being divisive to this level is already enough reason to leave him out.



seiya19 said:
oniyide said:

I dont agree with your first paragraph, no matter what people on the internet want you to believe gamers do not consist of JUST Ninty fans. that makes no sense. You can be a Ninty fan and a Sony fan and a MS fan all at once, so no the audience is not just Ninty fans, otherwise people wouldnt have been hyped for Snake as they were, hell he was more hyped than Mega Man. What is the creteria for "strong" presence? When was the last time Mega Man had a strong presence on Nintendo? Anywhere really? he's been multiplat for a while. As for Simon, my thing is he's such an old character that most people playing wont even know who he is, even in his own series he's not the most popular guy, that goes to Alucard. But i guess he cant show up since it would be no different than Snake.

I just said that the Smash audience is comprised of Nintendo fans, nothing about them being only that. You can indeed be a Metal Gear fan and a Nintendo one, they're not mutually exclusive. Still, how good are those odds when the franchise regularly ignores said platforms like the plague ? When even Xbox and PC get the games before them ? The lack of exposure makes it more unlikely to get fans there, and Konami/Kojima don't seem to have much intention to change that. They themselves seem to think the audience is not a good match for the franchise, so why should Nintendo/Sakurai feel differently ?

The criteria to choose these characters will always be arguable, but it would be ridiculous to argue that Snake is just as much tied to Nintendo platforms as Mega Man. Mega Man (classic) has appeared on at least 16 games by my count on Nintendo platforms, not counting late ports (anniversary collection, etc), and his first 7 main games (and Rockman and Forte) were originally on Nintendo platforms exclusively. That's a strong presence. The fact that 9 and 10 weren't exclusive doesn't matter as much here, because it was still there at the same time, unlike every new main Solid game. And he was very well received. I don't know where you got the idea that Snake was more hyped... That's not my impression.

Whether Simon is less popular than Alucard or not, I don't know, but I do know that he's fondly remembered by many Nintendo fans from his NES, GB and SNES appearances, and he has been on far more around as much or more games as Alucard. Either way, he would be the best rep for Castlevania on Smash, a franchise that has always being close to Nintendo platforms. Younger Nintendo fans might not know him as much, true, but at least he and his franchise is largely available for them on these platforms.

Again, I don't see why Snake should have priority over these characters when he has already been on Smash, barely appears on Nintendo platforms, and has closer ties with Sony ones. It should be obvious by now that many Nintendo fans would even react negatively to him being there again, the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish here. Being divisive to this level is already enough reason to leave him out.

@ bolded honestly id say the odds are pretty good, doesnt matter if it skips Ninty consoles as im sure a lot of gamers or at least enough are multiplat owners anyway. Hell its probably been like that since SOny got on the scene which by coincidence is when MGS got big. pretty sure most N64, GC and even WIi owners had another console where they would play MGS to their content. As for Ninty themselves? fair enough, it wouldnt make sense to approach him especially since they didnt intially, he did. He just didnt do it this time, probably cause he's busy with 5

I never meant to isuniate that Snake belonged more than Mega Man, hell no that makes no sense. BUt I do believe that Snake was more hyped...maybe hyped is a strong word, maybe shock as people didnt see that coming. Mega Man was well received didnt say otherwise, but IMHO the shock factor wasnt there like it was with Snake. Probably cause Mega Man does make more sense. I dont know the game itself seems to be the least hyped Smash ive seen. Again ill stress ive never thought Snake should have priority or is more important, i didnt even like the guy in smash and hes my 3rd fav video game character period. I wont go so far to say it would be negative I dont think people are that petty, they will just ignore him if he was in it which i dont think he is anyway.

As for Simon, well thats kind of my point not since SNES has he been seen. That was years I think it would be in Ninty's best interest to get a character that was more relevant. Alucard is more relevant as the game he starred in was THE most popular game in the franchise. Thats not opinion, SOTN is the best selling one and ironically its the one that theyve been trying to remake for years on GBA/DS they havent tried to make a original Castlevania in the original style in who knows how long. NOW they could get one of the more recent characters from the DS games. I think Soma? could work



oniyide said:

@ bolded honestly id say the odds are pretty good, doesnt matter if it skips Ninty consoles as im sure a lot of gamers or at least enough are multiplat owners anyway. Hell its probably been like that since SOny got on the scene which by coincidence is when MGS got big. pretty sure most N64, GC and even WIi owners had another console where they would play MGS to their content. As for Ninty themselves? fair enough, it wouldnt make sense to approach him especially since they didnt intially, he did. He just didnt do it this time, probably cause he's busy with 5

I never meant to isuniate that Snake belonged more than Mega Man, hell no that makes no sense. BUt I do believe that Snake was more hyped...maybe hyped is a strong word, maybe shock as people didnt see that coming. Mega Man was well received didnt say otherwise, but IMHO the shock factor wasnt there like it was with Snake. Probably cause Mega Man does make more sense. I dont know the game itself seems to be the least hyped Smash ive seen. Again ill stress ive never thought Snake should have priority or is more important, i didnt even like the guy in smash and hes my 3rd fav video game character period. I wont go so far to say it would be negative I dont think people are that petty, they will just ignore him if he was in it which i dont think he is anyway.

As for Simon, well thats kind of my point not since SNES has he been seen. That was years I think it would be in Ninty's best interest to get a character that was more relevant. Alucard is more relevant as the game he starred in was THE most popular game in the franchise. Thats not opinion, SOTN is the best selling one and ironically its the one that theyve been trying to remake for years on GBA/DS they havent tried to make a original Castlevania in the original style in who knows how long. NOW they could get one of the more recent characters from the DS games. I think Soma? could work

Well, it's hard to say how many multiplatform owners are out there, and from those how many are Metal Gear fans... All I can say here is that, it doesn't help. So I'm inclined to believe the odds are not that good when compared to the other franchises that do get regular representation. But as I said before, it's not just about raw popularity. Even if the overall popularity of Metal Gear compensates the lack of releases on Nintendo platforms, you still have to wonder whether he's the best fit for the series and its fans, as a 3rd party character. My answer, you already know...

Snake was probably more of a shock than Mega Man, sure. But don't forget that Brawl was the first Smash to include 3rd party characters, so that alone was a surprise on its own... By the time the upcoming Smash was announced, a ton of gamers had already expressed their desire to see many 3rd party characters, and Mega Man was one of the most requested ones. In fact, if I remember correctly, there were some comments regarding his potential inclusion in Brawl by Inafune and Sakurai... He was an obvious choice, and therefore somewhat expected, but that's just a testament of how much people wanted him in and how well he fits there. As a Mega Man fan myself, I can't stress that enough...

Regarding Simon, he did appear on other games after SNES, like Castlevania The Adventure: Rebirth and Judgment. There's also a few cameos here and there I believe... It's not much, but it's something that keeps him from being forgotten. I'm aware that SotN is the most popular 2D Castlevania, but that wasn't on a Nintendo platform, so the impact is not as much among Nintendo fans. And that was by far his game... Now, Soma Cruz... I don't know... Nintendo fans might be more familiar with him than Alucard, but I think he's still less popular than either him or Simon overall. After all, he's only in 2 games, and didn't even get into Judgment... Another fundamental thing to keep in mind here is that Simon is the original protagonist of the franchise, and a Belmont. That has to count...



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RolStoppable said:

SSB's female cast is big enough as it is.


With the exception of the fact that they need to include Captain Maple Syrup from Wario Land.

Not only was she his original and most frequent villain in that series, but she's also a pirate character (which makes her unique to the current roster), as well as being both female and a villain. If memory serves, Smash hasn't had a female villain on the roster yet.



I don't understand all the Snake hate here. He is a great character and also legendary, his franchise started in 1987 and is still going strong today. He definitely deserves his spot back among the other all-stars.

Anyone that doesn't think he belongs in smash bros or thinks that he is from a generic series needs to play a metal gear game, as a matter of fact get snake eater 3d on 3ds its fantastic.

You can argue that he is not relevant to Nintendo as I have seen many times, and I can bring up the counterargument that I have also seen many times that 3 main entries have been ported to nintendo systems (Snake Eater 3ds being pretty recent), but these arguments do not matter because the fact is that he is a veteran, and the first 3rd party veteran on top of that, which makes him pretty relevant to smash bros/nintendo history.

The other possible Konami reps (Simon and Bomberman) are also worthy characters in their own right, but what chances do they have against a veteran?



LITTLE MAC

Supepupes said:
I don't understand all the Snake hate here. He is a great character and also legendary, his franchise started in 1987 and is still going strong today. He definitely deserves his spot back among the other all-stars.

Anyone that doesn't think he belongs in smash bros or thinks that he is from a generic series needs to play a metal gear game, as a matter of fact get snake eater 3d on 3ds its fantastic.

You can argue that he is not relevant to Nintendo as I have seen many times, and I can bring up the counterargument that I have also seen many times that 3 main entries have been ported to nintendo systems (Snake Eater 3ds being pretty recent), but these arguments do not matter because the fact is that he is a veteran, and the first 3rd party veteran on top of that, which makes him pretty relevant to smash bros/nintendo history.

The other possible Konami reps (Simon and Bomberman) are also worthy characters in their own right, but what chances do they have against a veteran?

thats pretty much the argument right there he isnt really relevant to Ninty systems. And as much as i love the character, that isnt an untrue statement. You got a buthchred version of the original MG that was popular but was released way the hell years ago on NES, didnt see anything until a spinoff in Ghost Babel for GBC, that nobody really bought. Got a remake, which did get positive reviews but nobody bought and the 3ds game which again nobody bought. BUT with that being said im confident that the people who are greiving are just being sour for reasons i already said.



seiya19 said:
oniyide said:

@ bolded honestly id say the odds are pretty good, doesnt matter if it skips Ninty consoles as im sure a lot of gamers or at least enough are multiplat owners anyway. Hell its probably been like that since SOny got on the scene which by coincidence is when MGS got big. pretty sure most N64, GC and even WIi owners had another console where they would play MGS to their content. As for Ninty themselves? fair enough, it wouldnt make sense to approach him especially since they didnt intially, he did. He just didnt do it this time, probably cause he's busy with 5

I never meant to isuniate that Snake belonged more than Mega Man, hell no that makes no sense. BUt I do believe that Snake was more hyped...maybe hyped is a strong word, maybe shock as people didnt see that coming. Mega Man was well received didnt say otherwise, but IMHO the shock factor wasnt there like it was with Snake. Probably cause Mega Man does make more sense. I dont know the game itself seems to be the least hyped Smash ive seen. Again ill stress ive never thought Snake should have priority or is more important, i didnt even like the guy in smash and hes my 3rd fav video game character period. I wont go so far to say it would be negative I dont think people are that petty, they will just ignore him if he was in it which i dont think he is anyway.

As for Simon, well thats kind of my point not since SNES has he been seen. That was years I think it would be in Ninty's best interest to get a character that was more relevant. Alucard is more relevant as the game he starred in was THE most popular game in the franchise. Thats not opinion, SOTN is the best selling one and ironically its the one that theyve been trying to remake for years on GBA/DS they havent tried to make a original Castlevania in the original style in who knows how long. NOW they could get one of the more recent characters from the DS games. I think Soma? could work

Well, it's hard to say how many multiplatform owners are out there, and from those how many are Metal Gear fans... All I can say here is that, it doesn't help. So I'm inclined to believe the odds are not that good when compared to the other franchises that do get regular representation. But as I said before, it's not just about raw popularity. Even if the overall popularity of Metal Gear compensates the lack of releases on Nintendo platforms, you still have to wonder whether he's the best fit for the series and its fans, as a 3rd party character. My answer, you already know...

Snake was probably more of a shock than Mega Man, sure. But don't forget that Brawl was the first Smash to include 3rd party characters, so that alone was a surprise on its own... By the time the upcoming Smash was announced, a ton of gamers had already expressed their desire to see many 3rd party characters, and Mega Man was one of the most requested ones. In fact, if I remember correctly, there were some comments regarding his potential inclusion in Brawl by Inafune and Sakurai... He was an obvious choice, and therefore somewhat expected, but that's just a testament of how much people wanted him in and how well he fits there. As a Mega Man fan myself, I can't stress that enough...

Regarding Simon, he did appear on other games after SNES, like Castlevania The Adventure: Rebirth and Judgment. There's also a few cameos here and there I believe... It's not much, but it's something that keeps him from being forgotten. I'm aware that SotN is the most popular 2D Castlevania, but that wasn't on a Nintendo platform, so the impact is not as much among Nintendo fans. And that was by far his game... Now, Soma Cruz... I don't know... Nintendo fans might be more familiar with him than Alucard, but I think he's still less popular than either him or Simon overall. After all, he's only in 2 games, and didn't even get into Judgment... Another fundamental thing to keep in mind here is that Simon is the original protagonist of the franchise, and a Belmont. That has to count...

Oh i think its quite easy to determine how much MP gamers are out there. Well...depending on the gen. THe thing about Ninty systems and im just going to say it they miss a LOT of 3rd party games period. its been that way since N64 and its that way with Wii U and I dont see that changing. Now with that being said their is a conditioning where you HAVE to get another console or you miss out. Im going to assume that their are more actual fans of video games in general than of Ninty in particular. Meaning people arent going to want to miss out on their games, that was proved with the massive sales for PS1 versus N64 AND the software that USED to grace the Ninty systems. 100mil vs 50mil pretty sure half the n64 owners had a PS1, hell I dont know anyone who only had n64 they all gave in in the end. (anectodal) PS2 even worse. 150mil vs 20mil? gap is way too big pretty sure most GC owners had a PS2. PS isnt the alternative its what you get, then you get another system. PS360 the libraries were so different anyway. Wii missed too much stuff and even the stuff they got there was a HUGE sales gap in some software. COD is the biggest one. Thats just what i think BUT you are right not being on Ninty systems doesnt help and it isnt about raw popularity. I just believe that MG series is a big enough series, been around the longest where it isnt TOO weired that Snake is in Smash.

Not a massive Mega Man fan, but i get it I do. I never saw the inclusion of 3rd party characters as coming as a shock. I thought it was always rumored that Sonic was gonna show up sooner rather than later. ANd no before anyone says anything Sonic is not some unofficial Ninty character he appeared on a bunch of non Ninty platforms.

Fair enough for Simon he is an OG. But i really dont think Konami needs to remind anyone of Judgement and Rebirth was a remake of a game that wasnt that popular to begin with. Think it comes back to Ninty vs. video games. Is Smash supposed to be a celebration of Ninty history? Or game history in general? Becasue IMHO it doesnt matter if Alucard, Simon, Soma or whoever shows up. Its stopped being strictly about Ninty the moment they announced Solid Snake in the game. But maybe they are trying to close pandora's box. Hell as soon as they said they would have 3rd party characters it stopped being about just Ninty.



oniyide said:

Oh i think its quite easy to determine how much MP gamers are out there. Well...depending on the gen. THe thing about Ninty systems and im just going to say it they miss a LOT of 3rd party games period. its been that way since N64 and its that way with Wii U and I dont see that changing. Now with that being said their is a conditioning where you HAVE to get another console or you miss out.

You know, whenever the discussion of Nintendo and 3rd parties comes up, a vital element of it gets usually (and conveniently in some cases...) ignored... Handhelds. For a lot of Nintendo fans, handhelds are part of their steady gaming diet, with not only plenty of support from Nintendo themselves, but also a ton of 3rd party support. And for anyone that plays Japanese games, a Nintendo handheld becomes just as much of a must have as a non-Nintendo console, specially DS and 3DS. Do Nintendo fans in general need more than this ? I don't think so... And if you do, there's also PC to consider here, or those who just play other consoles through friends and such.

Basically, I'm skeptical of Nintendo fans being more prone to get another home console than other gamers, and I believe it's more of an individual choice than anything, with factors such as gaming budget, personal taste, and time to play games being crucial here. Hardware sales can indeed add to your point when they favor other platforms, but then again, the same could be said of Wii, DS and 3DS, yet people usually talk about there being different demographics when it comes to those... So, which one is it ? Different demographics or multiplatform gamers ? The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and without actual data, we can only speculate.

I'm also of the opinion that the issue gets a bit overblown in general... I mean, sure, too many 3rd party "AAA" games skip Nintendo consoles, but it's not like there's nothing to play... You still always get a good share of exclusives and ports, like Sonic, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, Tatsunoko VS Capcom, No More Heroes, Lego games, Just Dance, ZombieU, Watch_Dogs, Project Cars, Harvest Moon, etc... So, it depends of what kind of gamer you are.

oniyide said:

Think it comes back to Ninty vs. video games. Is Smash supposed to be a celebration of Ninty history? Or game history in general? Becasue IMHO it doesnt matter if Alucard, Simon, Soma or whoever shows up. Its stopped being strictly about Ninty the moment they announced Solid Snake in the game. But maybe they are trying to close pandora's box. Hell as soon as they said they would have 3rd party characters it stopped being about just Ninty.

Well, as much as I think Snake was not the best choice for Smash, he still arguably had some relevant history on Nintendo platforms, so he's far from being the worst choice. It would've been far worse if someone like Cloud got in for example, without ever being before on Nintendo. So, as I said before, I think the requirement should basically be to have a significant history on Nintendo platforms and be a good fit for Smash. You can be a bit more selective in the future and be certain that whatever character you choose has a good reason to be there, with a strong bond to Nintendo in one way or another. I would definitely disagree with using Snake's case as an excuse to fully open that pandora's box and just let any popular character in... But of course, it's not up to me anyway...

In any case, Smash will always be about Nintendo first and foremost, and Sakurai makes this quite clear when he says that the likes of Mega Man are special cases, limited from the start. Whoever gets in in the future, it will not change that.

Supepupes said:
The other possible Konami reps (Simon and Bomberman) are also worthy characters in their own right, but what chances do they have against a veteran?

I'm not sure what you mean by "veteran" here... If you're refering to his long history, let me remind you that Simon and Bomberman have existed since 1986 and 1983 (1985 on Famicom) respectively, being among the first 3rd party characters on Nintendo platforms. And Bomberman in particular has appeared on pretty much every Nintendo platform since then...