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What does Putin want with Ukraine

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What is his end state

Annex Ukraine As a whole 337 40.60%
 
Annex Crimea 286 34.46%
 
Defend Russian People Fro... 184 22.17%
 
Total:807

Donetsk people self-defence taking a tank from Ukraine 'army'.



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Russia is good and USA is bad. Media painting a picture of Russian Aggression is silly to say the least.



PDF said:

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/04/14/nr-zakaria-russia-ukraine-crisis.cnn.html

Zakaria does a good job explaining how I see things. 

Oh jesus :D How I'm tired of these goddamn, unsophisitcated, utterly obnoxious, so failed attempt to sound smartass it's idiotic and juvenile ramblings about nothing. Putin this, Putin that, Putin a wrestler (worst and cheesiest part), playing a game, sending message, causing chas. What a bucn of fart noises. American media is the worst Putin apologists I've ever seen.

Oh yes, Su-24 flyby over Donald Cook, that's not an accident, that's sending a message. OMFG really? How about I turn that differently, how about the fact Donald Cook is Aegis-equipped and by itself that could be seen as a provocation keeping in mind previous US Army statements that "we never, ever, god forbid in the Black Sea, nooo". Does that matter anyway?

Kindergarten, that'd be my impression in one word. Not even worth mocking, though I kinda did that already.



mai said:
PDF said:

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/04/14/nr-zakaria-russia-ukraine-crisis.cnn.html

Zakaria does a good job explaining how I see things.

Oh jesus :D How I'm tired of these goddamn, unsophisitcated, utterly obnoxious, so failed attempt to sound smartass it's idiotic and juvenile ramblings about nothing. Putin this, Putin that, Putin a wrestler (worst and cheesiest part), playing a game, sending message, causing chas. What a bucn of fart noises. American media is the worst Putin apologists I've ever seen.

Oh yes, Su-24 flyby over Donald Cook, that's not an accident, that's sending a message. OMFG really? How about I turn that differently, how about the fact Donald Cook is Aegis-equipped and by itself that could be seen as a provocation keeping in mind previous US Army statements that "we never, ever, god forbid in the Black Sea, nooo". Does that matter anyway?

Kindergarten, that'd be my impression in one word. Not even worth mocking, though I kinda did that already.

)) Good writing! )
Bu the way, on that Donald Duck accident. Is our Su-24 really flew 12 times over its deck??? This should be hilarious to see that picture... )



mai said:
PDF said:

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/04/14/nr-zakaria-russia-ukraine-crisis.cnn.html

Zakaria does a good job explaining how I see things. 

Oh jesus :D How I'm tired of these goddamn, unsophisitcated, utterly obnoxious, so failed attempt to sound smartass it's idiotic and juvenile ramblings about nothing. Putin this, Putin that, Putin a wrestler (worst and cheesiest part), playing a game, sending message, causing chas. What a bucn of fart noises. American media is the worst Putin apologists I've ever seen.

Oh yes, Su-24 flyby over Donald Cook, that's not an accident, that's sending a message. OMFG really? How about I turn that differently, how about the fact Donald Cook is Aegis-equipped and by itself that could be seen as a provocation keeping in mind previous US Army statements that "we never, ever, god forbid in the Black Sea, nooo". Does that matter anyway?

Kindergarten, that'd be my impression in one word. Not even worth mocking, though I kinda did that already.

Zakaria is very well respected.  I'll admit didn't like his book Wealth to Power very much but I still acknowledge that he is a renowned journalist and political scientist.  But I already knew you would likely respond this way, your clearly bias and will distrust or mock any American media on the issue.  As I am sure you feel the same way about me.  We will only continue to talk past eachother.  Lucky for us we are not the ones that have to find a solution.

As for the Summary, I don't really care about the plane part.  Zakaria is just saying Putin is playing this very well.  Eastern Ukraine is falling into a position where Putin can easily argue for Russian intervention.

 I don't buy that there isn't influence from Russia in these take overs of governemtn buildings, any more than I believed Putin when he flatly denied Russian soldiers in Crimea.  Just better at hiding them this time.



 

My Real Redneck friends


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PDF said:

Zakaria is very well respected.  I'll admit didn't like his book Wealth to Power very much but I still acknowledge that he is a renowned journalist and political scientist. 

F**k his respect. I remember stumbling upon his name and articles he wrote couple of times, don't have anything against the guy or any specific opinion about him. But what he said in the interview is a white noise, appeal to autority won't help his argument look better, and his argument is falling into the category of "Putin's plan" (and they call me consipracy nut). Not that Putin doesn't have some strategic thinking, that's a must for a politcian of his caliber. But American media is so overly obessed with the man giving him free advertising and trying to explain the whole situation with it.

I don't care what kind of tone he'd choose in regards to the situation in Ukraine, I don't have problems with that. I have problems with this college-level pseudo-intelectualism -- Putin's plan and all -- a pefect fit for CNN audiance, hence my post above, I quote:

mai said:

Nah, for western world Ukrainian crisis has started with Crimean crisis, and the whole understanding of the situation comes from alleged Russia vs. Ukraine "confrontation" -- before that crisis in Ukraine didn't exist, Nazi problem still doesn't exist -- media barely paid any attention to the country that majority of their audience would have had a hard time finding on the map. Hence relative popularity of the thread compared to similar one and the fact when given thread was created. After all whatever Putin does is much more entertaining than any other news -- cannot blame western media here. So from their standpoint, it's all about Putin.

 

PDF said:

I don't buy that there isn't influence from Russia in these take overs of governemtn buildings, any more than I believed Putin when he flatly denied Russian soldiers in Crimea.  Just better at hiding them this time.

Well you didn't seem to buy the fact that CIA was messing around with SBU, which is far-far-far more substantial, did I expose your bias too?

Understadning the influence from outside the border does add smth to the whole picture, but is not a decisive factor here. Maybe we should seek for that factor inside of Ukraine (striking thought, I know)? And I'm not talking about yet another tired topic of Russophones in Ukraine (half of Urkainian Nazis are Russophones). In order to understand the concepts we need to acknowledge simple facts, which is by itself a problem for some (even here I had two tiresome dialogues about Crimenian referendum), for starters we should define when Ukrainian crisis has actually started?

PDF said:

But I already knew you would likely respond this way, your clearly bias and will distrust or mock any American media on the issue.  As I am sure you feel the same way about me.  We will only continue to talk past eachother.  Lucky for us we are not the ones that have to find a solution.

I'm substantially more informed than you are, I have a right to talk that way.

 

 

 

UPD: Visual representation of "Putin's plan fallacy", a TIME cover from month ago. They f**king worship him :D



Annex Crimea, federalize South-East, protecting Russian people and Russian language.



Sharu said:

Bu the way, on that Donald Duck accident. Is our Su-24 really flew 12 times over its deck??? This should be hilarious to see that picture... )

I don't know the details, seems like too much, probably was skywriting to "send the message": F.U.C... :D

These kinds of accidents happen all the time. I remember reading some US navy officer on the events of 2001 somewhere in the Pacific, when couple of Su's caught an aricraft carrier with its pants down. They were running amok all over the deck, didn't have anything ready, so they had to intercept with whatever they've got -- this thing, a Prowler, -- needless to say it was entirely defenceless and has been used by Su's for bullying.



Btw, happy easter everybody! It seems military training is back to Russian schools.



Here come the big guns -- Joe Biden has arrived in Kiev yesterday, continuing the line of the US aurthorites who have visted Ukraine recently (last one was CIA director, John Brennan). Boy, that will "de-escalate" fast now.

 

At the same time Department of state is busy finding evidence of Russian military presence in Ukraine. Jen Psaki, DoS spokeperson, have been interviewed by Echo of Moscow, a long-running media outlet that has always posed itself in opposition to the government (even though part of Gazprom Media at the same time):

That proves it! All bearded men in Ukraine are GRU officers. BTW the name of the person in the top left corner is Gairbekov, nicknamed "the Beard",  photo from Gerogia, long retired by now. In bottom right corner we can see Eugene Gorbik, one of the Slavyansk self-defence commanders, yet antoher "GRU officer" I believe :D OSCE joins the witch hunt but apparently "cannot prove Russian military in Ukraine now", but search continues!

Intersting that John kerry himself has joined the fun of quoting obvious fakes, which have flooded Ukrainian and Russian-speaking part of the Intenet. Specifially Kerry has quoted a fake "letter to Jews" with the demand to register allegedly signed by Donetsk Republic representative.

That's adorable how fakes, obvious fakes might I add, have travelled across this part of Internet to fly out of the mouth holes of big US authorities. Did they even check the information they say out loud? I could say these are fakes without access to the big government apparatus, but they can't? It's either delusion or lies on purpose. Two could play these games, right off the bat I could demonstrate half of dozen proofes of American merceneries presence in Ukraine, that as much trustworthy.

But do not worry, I'm on duty searching for any evidence of Russian military presence in Ukraine, even though I've immeditely recognized it in Crimea, for now I couldn't find anything but rumors about "racoon" squads here and there. Nevertheless will report as soon as I have anything.

 

Meanwhile violance continues in Ukraine, after shootout in Slavyansk one of Right Sector activists has been caught alive and interrogated:

1:10: Please help, I want go home. Puh-leese.