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Forums - Politics Discussion - What does Putin want with Ukraine

 

What is his end state

Annex Ukraine As a whole 337 40.60%
 
Annex Crimea 286 34.46%
 
Defend Russian People Fro... 184 22.17%
 
Total:807
MrBubbles said:
russian government and overlord putin are two-faced lying fascist thugs with no respect for international law, international treaties, or the truth.

Really?

Who invaded Serbia to carve Kosovo out from it?

Who invaded Latin American countries to install dictatorships or indirectly supported them?

Who invaded Iraq on the grounds of imaginary biological weapons? Or Afghanistan for a decade-long occupation after one man?

Who is supporting religious fanatics on the Middle East to grab power?

But hey, Russia invaded a land inhabited by Russians, which was always basically theirs, way after Ukraine basically ceased to function as a single state, and they arrested Pussy Riot, so they are Satan. Yeah.



 

 

 

 

 

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Hey. Guys, RUSSIA DIDN'T INVADE UKRAINE YET!
Putin just gave a big press conference regarding this, you can try to find translations by yourself,
I'll give you this link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raHFAlaOjRc



Goatseye said:

1.Putin just got the whole Europe to side with the Western block.

2.A military resolution would never be considered. US will go the smart way and hostilize reception to Russian businesses (moneyflow in Europe).

3.By the way what did Putin do when US supplied directly Turkey with Anti-air missiles? He gruntled, but did he do?


1. It happened long time ago. 

2. True, nobody wanna military resolution - Putin and West.He said it today.

3. I dont know what exatly do u mean, but I hear that Turkey refuses to buy US a-a missiles Patriot and bought Chinese FD 2000.http://rt.com/news/us-turkey-china-missile-defense-689/

 

meanwhile



KingofTrolls said:
Goatseye said:

1.Putin just got the whole Europe to side with the Western block.

2.A military resolution would never be considered. US will go the smart way and hostilize reception to Russian businesses (moneyflow in Europe).

3.By the way what did Putin do when US supplied directly Turkey with Anti-air missiles? He gruntled, but did he do?


1. It happened long time ago. 

2. True, nobody wanna military resolution - Putin and West.He said it today.

3. I dont know what exatly do u mean, but I hear that Turkey refuses to buy US a-a missiles Patriot and bought Chinese FD 2000.http://rt.com/news/us-turkey-china-missile-defense-689/

 

 

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=119112   Well there's boots on the ground setting up the Patriot Missile Defense.

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-says-open-alternatives-chinese-missile-defense-system-131322626--business.html  Check why Turkey wanted to collaborate with Chinese instead of US.



As long as it prevents a war breaking out, it doesn't matter so much what happens.

I think the Ukraine should be split up though as there's a clear divide between those are who are pro-europe and those are pro-russia.

Either way, fuck off John Kerry! You big hypocrite!

Also, war is unlikely according to Putin. I sure hope he sticks to that.
~http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/04/crimea-crisis-putin-rule-out-war-use-force-last-resort



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JazzB1987 said:
Back to topic.
TBH
There is just so many russians in the ukraine because Russia wanted it to happen. Sending a ton of people there during the cold war so that the ukrainians will slowly become the minority (like China now does with Tibet).  At the same time Russia sent Ukrainians to other parts of the sowjet union. Happened with every ethnicity. Thin them out and replace them with ethnic russians so you slowly take over the country.

The "russkrainians" are illigitimately in the Ukraine. Send them back and problem solved. Its their own fault for establishing their existence in another country. And if they have a problem with that let Russia pay compensation I mean its Russias fault for sending them there right?  And if you now say  "but russia is another country it was the sowjet union who send them there" Then I will answer "but the third reich killed all the people why does Germany still have to pay for it?" Or "why are white people still not allowed to say the N word? The people who did bullshit are long gone"

???? What????

Let's start with ancient history:  Kievan Rus' was a loose federation of East Slavic tribes in Europe from the late 9th to the mid-13th century, under the reign of the Rurik dynasty. The modern peoples of Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia all claim Kievan Rus' as their cultural inheritance. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'

The territory that is today the Ukraine was later under influence by mongols, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Poland and Russia, at least in parts. Remember, no nation Ukraine was built up to this point, the terrotories were under different influences. Since 1654 parts of the eastern Ukraine (a terroritory much smaller than the Ukraine of today) was russian. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-bank_Ukraine

The western part of the Ukraine came later also under russian influence, with the partitions of Poland. The southern parts were conquered by Russia from the Turks or more precise the Krim-tartars. These territories were named Novorossiya. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya  (Notice that Novorossiya is only the southern parts of todays Ukraine, the northern parts are marked as russian empire on the map.)

Only after the communist revolution in Russia the first Ukrainian state was founded: the Ukrainian People's Republic. That was the first Ukrainian nation. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People's_Republic

You really think Russians were 'imported' in the time of the Soviet Republic? Think again.



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Mnementh said:
JazzB1987 said:
Back to topic.
TBH
There is just so many russians in the ukraine because Russia wanted it to happen. Sending a ton of people there during the cold war so that the ukrainians will slowly become the minority (like China now does with Tibet).  At the same time Russia sent Ukrainians to other parts of the sowjet union. Happened with every ethnicity. Thin them out and replace them with ethnic russians so you slowly take over the country.

The "russkrainians" are illigitimately in the Ukraine. Send them back and problem solved. Its their own fault for establishing their existence in another country. And if they have a problem with that let Russia pay compensation I mean its Russias fault for sending them there right?  And if you now say  "but russia is another country it was the sowjet union who send them there" Then I will answer "but the third reich killed all the people why does Germany still have to pay for it?" Or "why are white people still not allowed to say the N word? The people who did bullshit are long gone"

???? What????

Let's start with ancient history:  Kievan Rus' was a loose federation of East Slavic tribes in Europe from the late 9th to the mid-13th century, under the reign of the Rurik dynasty. The modern peoples of Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia all claim Kievan Rus' as their cultural inheritance. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'

The territory that is today the Ukraine was later under influence by mongols, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Poland and Russia, at least in parts. Remember, no nation Ukraine was built up to this point, the terrotories were under different influences. Since 1654 parts of the eastern Ukraine (a terroritory much smaller than the Ukraine of today) was russian. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-bank_Ukraine

The western part of the Ukraine came later also under russian influence, with the partitions of Poland. The southern parts were conquered by Russia from the Turks or more precise the Krim-tartars. These territories were named Novorossiya. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya  (Notice that Novorossiya is only the southern parts of todays Ukraine, the northern parts are marked as russian empire on the map.)

Only after the communist revolution in Russia the first Ukrainian state was founded: the Ukrainian People's Republic. That was the first Ukrainian nation. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People's_Republic

You really think Russians were 'imported' in the time of the Soviet Republic? Think again.


Of course they were. You have to differenciate between russian speaking ukrainians and soviet russians. The first bunch is like swiss germans. Speaking German but not being German. Most of the russians now living in the ukraine are not ukrainian russians they are sowjet russians send to the ukraine.

And guess why the majority crimean people are russian now? Because the russians deported the native tartars in the 1940s. Within a few days 180.000 tartars were deported by train of which between 22% and 46% died during their journey. This is typical russian ethnics policy. 

It was not before 1988 when the first tartars were allowed to return but they were prevented from moving into their old towns. They were spread over the whole crimea so they will always be a minority, forget their language and probably end up mixing with russians (so their traditions and ethnicity will disappear) This way the controversial debate about the tartar deportation ended and the sovet union still got what it wanted.

BTW if the russian ukrainians dont want to be part of the ukraine they are allowd to leave. Again ossetia wanted to be independent but Russia didnt allow it so why should the Ukraine allow it to happen with the crimea? I see no reason for Putin to be in the Ukraine it is absolutely none of his business and even if the former president asked him to invade the new one asked hin to leave and he ignored it. 



I wish the people in Crimea can democratic vote if they want to be a part of Russia. It wouldn't surprise me if they want. At the end Ukrainians hate Russians at this moment, Russians aren't feeling safe at all in Ukraine.



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JazzB1987 said:
1. Of course they were. You have to differenciate between russian speaking ukrainians and soviet russians. The first bunch is like swiss germans. Speaking German but not being German. Most of the russians now living in the ukraine are not ukrainian russians they are sowjet russians send to the ukraine.

2. And guess why the majority crimean people are russian now? Because the russians deported the native tartars in the 1940s. Within a few days 180.000 tartars were deported by train of which between 22% and 46% died during their journey. This is typical russian ethnics policy.  

It was not before 1988 when the first tartars were allowed to return but they were prevented from moving into their old towns. They were spread over the whole crimea so they will always be a minority, forget their language and probably end up mixing with russians (so their traditions and ethnicity will disappear) This way the controversial debate about the tartar deportation ended and the sovet union still got what it wanted.

3. BTW if the russian ukrainians dont want to be part of the ukraine they are allowd to leave. Again ossetia wanted to be independent but Russia didnt allow it so why should the Ukraine allow it to happen with the crimea? I see no reason for Putin to be in the Ukraine it is absolutely none of his business and even if the former president asked him to invade the new one asked hin to leave and he ignored it.

1. You claim there is a significant part of the people in the east ukraine send in the time of the soviet union? Do you have proof? These territories were russians for centuries, the people that live there feel themself as russians.

2. I'm aware of the deportation of tatars. I wouldn't be so ure tatars would be the majority if the deportation haven't happened. But nobody will ever know. That doesn't change the fact, that many people that live there today mostly feel themself as russians from their heritage. Even if you exclude the crimea, it is true for east ukraine.

3. Why should they leave, if their families lived there for centuries? Only because the new regime in kiew doesn't see them as equal and deny them rights?



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MrBubbles said:
russian government and overlord putin are two-faced lying fascist thugs with no respect for international law, international treaties, or the truth.

Yeah ok...

They could have easily made up some story about terrorsists or nuclear weapons before going in to Ukraine. Would that make you feel better?