Quantcast
What does Putin want with Ukraine

Forums - Politics Discussion - What does Putin want with Ukraine

What is his end state

Annex Ukraine As a whole 337 40.60%
 
Annex Crimea 286 34.46%
 
Defend Russian People Fro... 184 22.17%
 
Total:807
Goatseye said:

They're not that poor. They have natural resources recently discovered that resulted in contract for exploration by Exxon and Shell. When does it begin nobody knows.

Gazprom has been shady since 2001 and Europe and Ukraine has been trying to find alternative to their corruptive business practices.


GDp ( PPP ) per capita for Ukraine is 7,400 $ in 2013. 



Around the Network
arcane_chaos said:
chapset said:

Simpsons knew about this shit


Damn!!! I laughed too hard at this

Me too.  Might be the greatest thing I see all day and I'm ok with that.



 

My Real Redneck friends


X1Gates said:
platformmaster918 said:
X1Gates said:
Doing what the Power puff girls (Britain, france, USA and Israel) have been doing for quite some time, looking after national interest. Funny how the US talks about international laws when it suits them and the rest of the time the power puff girls ignore any rule and even make up stuff (Iraq chemical weapons) to destroy and loot countries. The crimea belongs to Russia and the power puff girls need to mind their own business.

yes because the Iraq war has been soooo profitable for the US.  Also I don't remember it helping our govt's popularity (we voted out Republicans in large part because we grew tired of the Iraq war)

You accomplished what you set out to do and that is divide the country into three regions which pose no threat to american and israeli interest in the middle east. Lastly, it was a profitable campaign but the profits are for the bankers, haliburton (who has contracts to rebuild), oil sector and big business. It was because of the dumbed down american public that the war took place, they mixed the 9/11 attack with Sadam being related to it and you sheep ate that up like doritos chips. The biggest danger to the world is not the USA, the biggest danger to th world is the uninformed, uneducated, backward, obese, war mongering and nationalistic US population.

war mongering?  Not one of the people I know supports the Iraq war.  Maybe back in 03 they did but they saw the lies they were being fed and got rightly pissed off.




Get Your Portable ID!Lord of Ratchet and Clank

Duke of Playstation Plus

Warden of Platformers

Kasz216 said:
ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
haxxiy said:

Seems like the EU and the US instigated Ukrainian revolt in the hopes the country would join the EU / NATO and quietly drift away from Russian influence. The Western leaders didn't predict either the influence of the ultra-nationalists of the Right Sector, or the willingness of Russia to protect their interests.

I predict mid-term economic uncertanity for Russia and their investments, due to sanctions, but the blow on the face of Washington and Brussels over their obvious inability to come together and do something effective while Crimea is annexed and Ukraine possibly falls to civil war will damage them the hardest.


Seems awful conspiracy theoristish, espiecally considering just how much of a disaster the Ukraine has been.

There were plenty of reasons for revolution without the need for provocation.

It's been no secret the Ukraine was about to default hard.  Meanwhile, the president was skimming off the top pretty heavily.

Except you have things like the Nuland phone conversation that make the theory sound very plausible.

About the economic situation: it was Russia that offered to help with a huge bailout package. What other reasons for revolution were there?


Have you actually listened to the Nuland phone call?  Nothing about it suggests that, just simply that the USA would have pull with the Pro-Western polticians.

Which is pretty much just how it's going to be anywhere there's a pro western revolution.

If they tell Vitaly Klitcko to sit out, he'd probably sit out, because US good will is pretty important.

 

As for the Russian Bailout package.  That's more or less the exact reason you would want a revolution.

If I lived in the Ukraine like my ancestors, the last thing i'd want is owing a ton of money to Russia.

Giving Russia even more power over the finances of my country to where it could more or less dump the country into financial crisis to the point of where even the IMF or EU couldn't bail us out.

Not to mention iIt more or less would legitamize moves like Crimea, and others, simply by citing a huge ass unpaid debt.

Yes, I've actually listened. They're talking about who should run things; they're assigning roles to the different players. There are also leaked emails of Vitaly Klitschko to consider. It's pretty clear that there was a very large external involvement in the overthrow.

You talk about US goodwill being important. Tell me how it is important to the Ukrainian public. Unless you mean it's imporant for Klitschko personally, which makes him a much bigger crook than Yanukovich.

You do realize what the alternatives to the Russian bailout were, right? A much smaller than requested loan by the IMF, which came with conditions that would put a considerable financial strain on the majority of Ukrainians. Or a tiny loan offer by EU along with a list of requirements. Neither IMF nor EU were willing to provide any serious help. This fact makes your discussion of a scenario "where even the IMF or EU couldn't bail us out" laughable.



           

ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
haxxiy said:

Seems like the EU and the US instigated Ukrainian revolt in the hopes the country would join the EU / NATO and quietly drift away from Russian influence. The Western leaders didn't predict either the influence of the ultra-nationalists of the Right Sector, or the willingness of Russia to protect their interests.

I predict mid-term economic uncertanity for Russia and their investments, due to sanctions, but the blow on the face of Washington and Brussels over their obvious inability to come together and do something effective while Crimea is annexed and Ukraine possibly falls to civil war will damage them the hardest.


Seems awful conspiracy theoristish, espiecally considering just how much of a disaster the Ukraine has been.

There were plenty of reasons for revolution without the need for provocation.

It's been no secret the Ukraine was about to default hard.  Meanwhile, the president was skimming off the top pretty heavily.

Except you have things like the Nuland phone conversation that make the theory sound very plausible.

About the economic situation: it was Russia that offered to help with a huge bailout package. What other reasons for revolution were there?


Have you actually listened to the Nuland phone call?  Nothing about it suggests that, just simply that the USA would have pull with the Pro-Western polticians.

Which is pretty much just how it's going to be anywhere there's a pro western revolution.

If they tell Vitaly Klitcko to sit out, he'd probably sit out, because US good will is pretty important.

 

As for the Russian Bailout package.  That's more or less the exact reason you would want a revolution.

If I lived in the Ukraine like my ancestors, the last thing i'd want is owing a ton of money to Russia.

Giving Russia even more power over the finances of my country to where it could more or less dump the country into financial crisis to the point of where even the IMF or EU couldn't bail us out.

Not to mention iIt more or less would legitamize moves like Crimea, and others, simply by citing a huge ass unpaid debt.

Yes, I've actually listened. They're talking about who should run things; they're assigning roles to the different players. There are also leaked emails of Vitaly Klitschko to consider. It's pretty clear that there was a very large external involvement in the overthrow.

You talk about US goodwill being important. Tell me how it is important to the Ukrainian public. Unless you mean it's imporant for Klitschko personally, which makes him a much bigger crook than Yanukovich.

You do realize what the alternatives to the Russian bailout were, right? A much smaller than requested loan by the IMF, which came with conditions that would put a considerable financial strain on the majority of Ukrainians. Or a tiny loan offer by EU along with a list of requirements. Neither IMF nor EU were willing to provide any serious help. This fact makes your discussion of a scenario "where even the IMF or EU couldn't bail us out" laughable.

They're assigning roles they'd like to see, as in, who they want to back for said positions.  They aren't just installing people lock stock and barrel.

There is a reason why the big story from that call was "Fuck the EU" because the rest was pretty standard noncontroversial talk.

As for how important US goodwill is?  I'd say probably about half the Ukrainian people, and vitally important to the Ukranian country.

As for how it's only half, god only knows.  It's as if nobody has a memory that lasts longer then 15 years.

Then again if your profile age is accurate, I suppose that'd be afairly reasonable reason your memory is about that long.

 

As for the EU and IMF, maybe you didn't notice with Greece, but that's what they do.   They give out smaller loans, make sure you are actually fixing your economy and give you further loans as needed.



As opposed to Russia who's happy to let the Ukraine gorge itself on free cash until it collapses and then they're free to move in.



Around the Network

russian government and overlord putin are two-faced lying fascist thugs with no respect for international law, international treaties, or the truth.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

Well I'm worried on what's happening in Ukraine because if the leaders of the suppose to be free world cannot stop Putin from taking over the Crimea then no one is going to stop China from taking over the South China Sea.



Kasz216 said:
ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
ultima said:
Kasz216 said:
haxxiy said:

Seems like the EU and the US instigated Ukrainian revolt in the hopes the country would join the EU / NATO and quietly drift away from Russian influence. The Western leaders didn't predict either the influence of the ultra-nationalists of the Right Sector, or the willingness of Russia to protect their interests.

I predict mid-term economic uncertanity for Russia and their investments, due to sanctions, but the blow on the face of Washington and Brussels over their obvious inability to come together and do something effective while Crimea is annexed and Ukraine possibly falls to civil war will damage them the hardest.


Seems awful conspiracy theoristish, espiecally considering just how much of a disaster the Ukraine has been.

There were plenty of reasons for revolution without the need for provocation.

It's been no secret the Ukraine was about to default hard.  Meanwhile, the president was skimming off the top pretty heavily.

Except you have things like the Nuland phone conversation that make the theory sound very plausible.

About the economic situation: it was Russia that offered to help with a huge bailout package. What other reasons for revolution were there?


Have you actually listened to the Nuland phone call?  Nothing about it suggests that, just simply that the USA would have pull with the Pro-Western polticians.

Which is pretty much just how it's going to be anywhere there's a pro western revolution.

If they tell Vitaly Klitcko to sit out, he'd probably sit out, because US good will is pretty important.

 

As for the Russian Bailout package.  That's more or less the exact reason you would want a revolution.

If I lived in the Ukraine like my ancestors, the last thing i'd want is owing a ton of money to Russia.

Giving Russia even more power over the finances of my country to where it could more or less dump the country into financial crisis to the point of where even the IMF or EU couldn't bail us out.

Not to mention iIt more or less would legitamize moves like Crimea, and others, simply by citing a huge ass unpaid debt.

Yes, I've actually listened. They're talking about who should run things; they're assigning roles to the different players. There are also leaked emails of Vitaly Klitschko to consider. It's pretty clear that there was a very large external involvement in the overthrow.

You talk about US goodwill being important. Tell me how it is important to the Ukrainian public. Unless you mean it's imporant for Klitschko personally, which makes him a much bigger crook than Yanukovich.

You do realize what the alternatives to the Russian bailout were, right? A much smaller than requested loan by the IMF, which came with conditions that would put a considerable financial strain on the majority of Ukrainians. Or a tiny loan offer by EU along with a list of requirements. Neither IMF nor EU were willing to provide any serious help. This fact makes your discussion of a scenario "where even the IMF or EU couldn't bail us out" laughable.

They're assigning roles they'd like to see, as in, who they want to back for said positions.  They aren't just installing people lock stock and barrel.

There is a reason why the big story from that call was "Fuck the EU" because the rest was pretty standard noncontroversial talk.

As for how important US goodwill is?  I'd say probably about half the Ukrainian people, and vitally important to the Ukranian country.

As for how it's only half, god only knows.  It's as if nobody has a memory that lasts longer then 15 years.

Then again if your profile age is accurate, I suppose that'd be afairly reasonable reason your memory is about that long.

 

As for the EU and IMF, maybe you didn't notice with Greece, but that's what they do.   They give out smaller loans, make sure you are actually fixing your economy and give you further loans as needed.



As opposed to Russia who's happy to let the Ukraine gorge itself on free cash until it collapses and then they're free to move in.

And the emails of Klitschko leaked by anonymous? Do they also say nothing?

You'd say probably about half the Ukrainian people? What exactly would you say about them? And you still didn't explain how US goodwill is vitally important to the Ukrainian public or even state.

I'll be honest, I have no idea what you're referring to. As you noted, I wasn't at an age to care about these kinds of things 15 years ago.

EU loan practices aren't really relevant; I'm not accusing them of inconsistency. The fact remains that their loan offer was a very small fraction of what Ukraine had asked for.

As for your last sentence, that right there is much more of a conspiracy theory than what you were attacking earlier. Ukraine's economic collapse is in no way advantageous to Russia. Especially when you consider their push for a Customs Union.



           

Jon-Erich said:
He wants political influence in that region. Even after the Cold War ended, it was clear that Russia and the West still didn't see eye to eye politically. Ukraine's new government is a pro-Western government and the last thing Putin wants is a pro-Western government on Russia's border. It's the same reason why China still supports North Korea's existence. They do not want a pro-American Korean government to border China. Also, with both China and Russia, less political influence over their neighbors means having less of an upper hand in economic affairs as well as political influence.

?

China does not support North Korea, we treat them as neutral as possible, South Korea is and always will be Chinas best buddy. Sweden did business with Germany during WW2, that doesn't mean that Sweden had Germany as their best buddy or supported them, they were just neutral. Heck, even American corporations did business with Germany during that time.

I'm so sick of foreigners saying stuff like that.

Second bolded part goes for any of the super powers in the world, it's a no brainer. Canada and Mexico to go pro-Euro and do affairs with them instead of the USA, yeah, USA would love that to happen. I think not.



kowenicki said:

Doesn't matter what it was, it matters what it is.

Putin is and always will be an unsophisticated thug.

I answered B


Doesnt matter that Tibet was a seperate country. It just matters that its now part of China. (does that sound right to you?)

There is much more to it than just saying "but now its like this".

I am not defending Putin here because why should I? What he is doing is stupid but then again how is he any different than The USA etc?
You know Russia does shit and everyone can see it  Russia does not give a fuck.
The USA on the other hand do shit and act like the nice guys. Trying to hide it etc. Thats even worse IMO.


Back to topic.
TBH
There is just so many russians in the ukraine because Russia wanted it to happen. Sending a ton of people there during the cold war so that the ukrainians will slowly become the minority (like China now does with Tibet).  At the same time Russia sent Ukrainians to other parts of the sowjet union. Happened with every ethnicity. Thin them out and replace them with ethnic russians so you slowly take over the country.

The "russkrainians" are illigitimately in the Ukraine. Send them back and problem solved. Its their own fault for establishing their existence in another country. And if they have a problem with that let Russia pay compensation I mean its Russias fault for sending them there right?  And if you now say  "but russia is another country it was the sowjet union who send them there" Then I will answer "but the third reich killed all the people why does Germany still have to pay for it?" Or "why are white people still not allowed to say the N word? The people who did bullshit are long gone"

Also Russia stole parts of poland and sent poles to parts of Germany. So at least for once let russians lose territory (which does not even belong to them). I mean they interfere with the Ukraine and will probably want the country to split in half so Russia can absorb the Crimea but at the same time they prevented South ossetia from becoming independant.

Thats just hilarious.