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The inflection point for diminishing returns appears to be the PS3/360 generation

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When comparing jumps in visual from current to next gen.  We only have end of gen and beginning of gen to go on so to make it fair, you need to compare end of gen sixth gen to seventh gen.  Games get far better looking later in the gen than the beginning of the gen.

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Different people are able to perceive to different degrees. Just as not all vision is equal for everyone, neither is perception. But diminishing returns seems obvious to me, and always did. The leap is great at the beginning, and while it's numerically even bigger at the end, we notice it less. You've got 3rd gen which you can practically draw in MS paint, 4th gen which looks orders of magnitude better, but can still be drawn in MS paint if you have talent, then 5th gen where the only reason it looks better is because it's in 3D, then 6th gen where it starts to actually resemble real life but blurry, then 7th gen is pretty much the same but not blurry, then 8th gen just looks a little crisper if you can make it out. 9th gen will be pretty much at the upper limit of the best of human perception to tell the difference, and from there, it'll just be improvements in physics processing and AI that'll be the difference from one gen to the next. Graphics never mattered that much, but soon they won't matter at all. This is the last gen that resolution will matter, next gen will probably be the last one that frame rate will matter, and we'll all look back at these graphics wars the way we look back now at the bit wars.



Jay520 said:
theprof00 said:

Hence why I said look at Shadow of the Colossus and early ps360 games.

Can you show me a ps360 game that looks as good as the order, or infamous, or quantum break? Sure you might come close, but it's likely whatever game you pick will be a game that was made in the ps360's 7th or 8th year and not anywhere near the first or second. Wouldn't you agree?


You said PS4/Xbone games look "much much much better. I'm assuming you mean they look much better than PS3/360 games. 

But now you're saying that some games from the PS360 library might "come close" to PS4/Xbone games, so I'm really not sure what your stance is.

I can safely say that my eyesight is good enough to tell the massive difference between this gen and last gen. People really pretend like it's small....but, I dunno. I played all the infamous games...watching the infamous ps4 gameplay....stunning. FAR better quality. Sure it's not like stick figures compared to 3d models, but the difference is pretty clear.

Have you seen the quantum break gifs? I don't think I've seen detail like that in any ps360 game. It's quite a nice game.



Jay520 said:
theprof00 said:

Hence why I said look at Shadow of the Colossus and early ps360 games.

Can you show me a ps360 game that looks as good as the order, or infamous, or quantum break? Sure you might come close, but it's likely whatever game you pick will be a game that was made in the ps360's 7th or 8th year and not anywhere near the first or second. Wouldn't you agree?


You said PS4/Xbone games look "much much much better". I'm assuming you mean they look much better than PS3/360 games. 

But now you're saying that some games from the PS360 library might "come close" to PS4/Xbone games, so I'm really not sure what your stance is.

Have you never went between generations? I made a post comparing CoD2 with MW3. Massive difference from early to late in the gen on 360.

But still, for example:

SmackDown 2: Know You Role PS1

SmackDown: Just Bring It PS2

Late gen PS1 vs early gen PS2. See how the PS1 game "comes close" to the next gen PS2? But games like Shadow of the Colossus or God of War 2 completely blow Know Your Role out the water.

I think you're just being pessimistic. Trust me when I say there will be huge differences a few years down the road
 



fallen said:

I never believed in diminishing returns, but then next gen came out and I'm just not seeing a huge leap. Take Killzone Shadowfall. It didn't garner near the massive graphics hype of the original Killzone on PS3. Why? Because it looks like just something we'd already seen on PC, or not really THAT much better than a good Xbox 360 shooter like Halo 4, or hell even Crysis 3 on 360.

Now, I know that next gen will produce better things once engines are built from the ground up for them. But to my shock and surprise, next gen games so far look like really good PS3/360 games, not another world.

You couldn't say that for any prior gen. every gen was a HUGGGGEEE leap on the one before. Ps3/360 was a HUGE leap over Ps2. PS2 was a HUGE leap over PS1. And all the way back.

So yep, it seems, unless the future changes my mind, that the PS3/360 gen was the last low hanging fruit, where things looked just massively better at a glance.

 




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HylianSwordsman said:
Different people are able to perceive to different degrees. Just as not all vision is equal for everyone, neither is perception. But diminishing returns seems obvious to me, and always did. The leap is great at the beginning, and while it's numerically even bigger at the end, we notice it less. You've got 3rd gen which you can practically draw in MS paint, 4th gen which looks orders of magnitude better, but can still be drawn in MS paint if you have talent, then 5th gen where the only reason it looks better is because it's in 3D, then 6th gen where it starts to actually resemble real life but blurry, then 7th gen is pretty much the same but not blurry, then 8th gen just looks a little crisper if you can make it out. 9th gen will be pretty much at the upper limit of the best of human perception to tell the difference, and from there, it'll just be improvements in physics processing and AI that'll be the difference from one gen to the next. Graphics never mattered that much, but soon they won't matter at all. This is the last gen that resolution will matter, next gen will probably be the last one that frame rate will matter, and we'll all look back at these graphics wars the way we look back now at the bit wars.

Not even close. Next gen 4K tvs will become standard with continuously growing screen sizes. 1080p looks pretty dull once you've seen a 70" 4K screen in action. With bigger screens, higher framerate becomes important to reduce judder. The bigger the screen space covered by objects the higher the fps you need to be able to track them without judder. 120fps will be the new 60fps.

VR is still in its infancy. Spreading a picture over a 90 degree visual field requires 4K to get the same detail as a 42" 720p picture from 5.7ft away. Double that for 3D.

Resolution and frame rate will matter for generations to come. Plus we haven't even started with real time ray tracing for realistic lighting.
Consider this, Gravity took 50 hours per frame to render, or the equivalent of 7000 years for the movie using only 1 processor. And that's rendered in 2K 48 fps (3D) and most of it is just a backdrop with a few objects on screen. (ok the space shuttle alone was 25 million polygons)



theprof00 said:

I can safely say that my eyesight is good enough to tell the massive difference between this gen and last gen. People really pretend like it's small....but, I dunno. I played all the infamous games...watching the infamous ps4 gameplay....stunning. FAR better quality. Sure it's not like stick figures compared to 3d models, but the difference is pretty clear.

Have you seen the quantum break gifs? I don't think I've seen detail like that in any ps360 game. It's quite a nice game.

But you just said some last gen games "come close" to The Order, Infamous or Quantum Break.



BMaker11 said:

Have you never went between generations? I made a post comparing CoD2 with MW3. Massive difference from early to late in the gen on 360.

Late gen PS1 vs early gen PS2. See how the PS1 game "comes close" to the next gen PS2? But games like Shadow of the Colossus or God of War 2 completely blow Know Your Role out the water.

I think you're just being pessimistic. Trust me when I say there will be huge differences a few years down the road


I'm not sure what your point is. How am I being pessimistic? I never said there won't be huge differences in a few years (although whether those differences will be noticeable/important is another thing). The post you quoted was me asking for clarificaiton from theproff00. I didn't even make any claims in that post.



Jay520 said:
theprof00 said:

I can safely say that my eyesight is good enough to tell the massive difference between this gen and last gen. People really pretend like it's small....but, I dunno. I played all the infamous games...watching the infamous ps4 gameplay....stunning. FAR better quality. Sure it's not like stick figures compared to 3d models, but the difference is pretty clear.

Have you seen the quantum break gifs? I don't think I've seen detail like that in any ps360 game. It's quite a nice game.

But you just said some last gen games "come close" to The Order, Infamous or Quantum Break.

remember i'm comparing end of generation 360/ps3 games and you can still see the leap is pretty big.



Jay520 said:
theprof00 said:

I can safely say that my eyesight is good enough to tell the massive difference between this gen and last gen. People really pretend like it's small....but, I dunno. I played all the infamous games...watching the infamous ps4 gameplay....stunning. FAR better quality. Sure it's not like stick figures compared to 3d models, but the difference is pretty clear.

Have you seen the quantum break gifs? I don't think I've seen detail like that in any ps360 game. It's quite a nice game.

But you just said some last gen games "come close" to The Order, Infamous or Quantum Break.

Dude...some late PS1 games "come close" to early PS2 games. Some late Xbox games "come close" to early 360 games. And now, some late PS3 games "come close" to early PS4 games.

Do you honestly believe that PS2 games, in the end, didn't look much better than PS1 games? That Xbox 360 games didn't look much better than Xbox games? This happens in the infancy of EVERY generation when compared to the previous one. Why are you ignoring that historical fact?