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Forums - Politics Discussion - George Takei’s Ripping Letter to AZ about ‘Turn Away the Gay’ Bill

MonstaTruk said:
@The Fury

People use Christianity or other religions as crutches, to give them the STRENGTH or VALIDATION to do/say/act a certain way. I don't need VALIDATION. I don't need ASSURANCE that how I am is RIGHT, and I don't need a FanClub. It was easy for me: follow the path that was laid out for us before we were born. That's it. Stand up, look at the challenge laid before you, and walk towards it. Don't hide, duck, be political, or make excuses. That's my take...

Then ignoring all above, ignoring religious reasoning or culture background. Why do you feel homosexuality is wrong? You mentioned before that homosexuals experienced some 'unfortunate events', I'm not entirely sure on how you think this could affect their sexuality. You also assumed that they had lack of parental upbringing to make an impression, again I'm not sure how a lack of a male/female role model could affect this either. Is this what you think?



Hmm, pie.

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@The Fury:

Alright, the comment I made earlier about unfortunate events happening to someone...I didn't mean that all homosexuals been through something traumatic early on their life. What I was saying was that, the few people that HAVE been through something traumatic early in their lives, can and have made an indelible impression on those that are "without direction" and are "searching for something" in life, especially in a society where that childhood foundation of training from parents have been lost. But then you'll hear the thing of, "well I was BORN this way, I can't help it!" Look, I have 2 dogs. And yes, they are animals. But they can act like a part of my family, like if someone were to come have dinner at my house. I TRAINED my dogs to wait till I say it's okay for them to eat. If I don't, they'll sit there and wait. You see, there is a DEFAULT set of actions that would take place IF I DID NOTHING, IF I WASN'T PROACTIVE. Yes, society can raise kids, but they'll turn out like...they'll turn out, who knows. OR...you can mold them into what you want to mold them into. To say, as a human being, that "I just can't"...*sighs*. I would rather that person just say to me that they don't want to, that's more understandable.

As far as what's RIGHT or WRONG, come on. You all KNOW what's right and wrong, we all KNOW. And I'm here to tell you, you WILL NOT find peace within yourself until you fully embrace, to yourself, what YOU know to be RIGHT. That's a personal thing. I can't tell you what you know to be RIGHT, and nobody for DAMN sure is gonna convince me how I'm thinking is WRONG. I don't make the rules, they've been made WAY before you and me. It is what it is...



Doesn't believe in God. Claims to know an objective system of morality.



KylieDog said:
The Bill is wrong, but don't shop owners have the right to turn away anyone anyway?


Clearly this bill wouldn't is exist if businesses had a right to turn anyone away.

I live in AZ and I feel this isn't a big deal. They apparently can only turn away gay people for religious reasons and very few businesses will do that in fear of runing their reputation.

Celebrities spewing crap like this makes me want the law enacted just to prove how little impact it will have. The citizens of AZ will punish business owners that use this law in a gross manner.



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ToxicJosh said:
Doesn't believe in God. Claims to know an objective system of morality.

I also talk STRAIGHT-AHEAD, so people can know EXACTLY who and what I'm talking about...

Was that for me?  Or...George Takei?  Because I NEVER said I don't believe in God.  I just said that I couldn't honestly tell people to their face that I'm a Christian when the last time I went to church was YEARS ago.

And as far as the objective system of morality goes, yeah...I guess I do.  It's called "Do what you know to be the right thing to do".  Pretty simple...



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MonstaTruk said:
@The Fury:

Alright, the comment I made earlier about unfortunate events happening to someone...I didn't mean that all homosexuals been through something traumatic early on their life. What I was saying was that, the few people that HAVE been through something traumatic early in their lives, can and have made an indelible impression on those that are "without direction" and are "searching for something" in life, especially in a society where that childhood foundation of training from parents have been lost. But then you'll hear the thing of, "well I was BORN this way, I can't help it!" Look, I have 2 dogs. And yes, they are animals. But they can act like a part of my family, like if someone were to come have dinner at my house. I TRAINED my dogs to wait till I say it's okay for them to eat. If I don't, they'll sit there and wait. You see, there is a DEFAULT set of actions that would take place IF I DID NOTHING, IF I WASN'T PROACTIVE. Yes, society can raise kids, but they'll turn out like...they'll turn out, who knows. OR...you can mold them into what you want to mold them into. To say, as a human being, that "I just can't"...*sighs*. I would rather that person just say to me that they don't want to, that's more understandable.

As far as what's RIGHT or WRONG, come on. You all KNOW what's right and wrong, we all KNOW. And I'm here to tell you, you WILL NOT find peace within yourself until you fully embrace, to yourself, what YOU know to be RIGHT. That's a personal thing. I can't tell you what you know to be RIGHT, and nobody for DAMN sure is gonna convince me how I'm thinking is WRONG. I don't make the rules, they've been made WAY before you and me. It is what it is...

I'm not saying you are wrong, you are free to have your views, I'm just trying to understand them. Let's give you a bit of my history so you can understand where I come from. I was bought up in a religious household, Church of England, I went to church, got confirmed, while I still hold on to them as a basis for society, the teachings no longer influence on my life. Science and reasoning now holds more weight on my life than religion, I would consider myself athiest but that doesn't mean I don't respect what religion has taught me, the main one is respect for other people. Their choices in life and respect for those that are different to me, freedom and equality for all man.

What I see from you is that you are being disrespectful to the LBG community. They are just people trying to live their lives, like you, yet while they have to hide in supposed shame for what society (the 'rules' that were made before you and me come from religious influence) has dictated is 'wrong', you proudly pronounce what they do is 'wrong'.  This what I want to understand.



Hmm, pie.

KylieDog said:
So why is this Bill 'needed'.

So that a company can put out a sign that says "No Gays Allowed" so that they can minimise the chance of catching gayness.



As a person whp believes in free market as well in freedom to serve whoever you want, I fully support this bill. It stops the manipulative fascist LGBT lobby from suing and closing down small businesses.



@The Fury:

Well, when you say I disrespect the LBGT community, I guess I kinda do, unknowingly. Here's the thing: there are pushes that that community has made strides in, the main one being legal same-sex marriage. Which, I'm in support of that. If I was a pastor, I wouldn't marry a same-sex couple, but...moving on. It's the other "movements" that I have a problem with. Isn't there an LBGT video game convention? Is that really necessary? Should black people have an African American Fighting Tournament, or a Phillipino gaming sponsorship group? Equal rights, I'm with that. Separate g*y organizations for the NRA, for gaming, for the lottery...what is this?

Anybody can/should live like they want to. Just don't expect everyone to suddenly shower that person with praise, when they chose a route that's KNOWINGLY frowned upon, in certain communities. Over here, a black person, in 2014, can still get hung in certain parts of the US. And in certain parts, a white person can get shot just by driving down certain streets. It doesn't matter who the president is, or what year it is. You can't MAKE people like something/someone. My suggestion would be to stay where you feel comfortable, around people you feel comfortable with. But you're not going to CHANGE certain people...



Kane1389 said:
As a person whp believes in free market as well in freedom to serve whoever you want, I fully support this bill. It stops the manipulative fascist LGBT lobby from suing and closing down small businesses.

So you'd be fine with a bill that says that people can refuse to serve someone because they're black?