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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Debunking the Myth that Next Gen Consoles are too weak

I am a bit surprised with the way that people are underwhelmed by the jump. I believe it's more to do with the diminishing returns to the perception of performance, rather than the actual technical achievement. Because I see that the jump is as big as it has always been, if not bigger... Such claims arise especially because of a much easier comparison to the PC architecture this time around instead of propriety and mystical designs, which are harder to prove otherwise. Let's remember that compared to the 7th Generation console designs, the vast majority of developers are relatively much happier this time around, and the technicalities aside, the PC ports to the next-gen consoles look relatively way better without serious sacrificies.

 

In short, the next gen consoles (or at least PS4) is not weak at all but more than capable, because...

a) Those Consoles come with octo-core processors, which is well beyond the main stream pc with dual core. It's true that those cores have relatively poor single threaded performance but with the sufficient level of parallelism and low level calls, CPUs had never been this fast in relative terms (compared to PCs). So the CPU performance will never be an issue. Also keep in mind that the CPU performance improvements have slowed tremendously at the last decade.

b) The amount of RAM (8 GB) is well beyond the main stream PC (4-6 GB) today, which had never happened. Most games are not even programmed to run on more than 3 GB, and this is the first time in history, where the console ports don't have to be downsized at all. In comparison, 1 GB was the mainstream RAM when the 7th Gen consoles arrived with only 1/2 RAM including the graphics, and 128 MB was the mainstream when PS2 arrived with 32 MB! Also today we have so much RAM on our PCs that the capacity increases came to a crawl.

c) 500 GB, although still may be not much for today's games, is relatively abundant compared to the debut with the 7th Gen. consoles.

d) The GPU seems to be archiles heel, at least with the XB1. However, it's unfair to the PS4 as it seems to be just fine with 1080p and up to 60 fps. We know that the graphics will improve over time, squeezing either better graphics or more stable performance. Given that most TVs today are not capable of producing resolutions greater than 1080p, there really is no point in putting a higher GPU than what PS4 has over the long run.

e) PS4 employs a super fast GDDR5, equivalent to the PC tech, but just much more of it. Games, which are not designed with this in mind will not magically look better, but they will come in time. Couple this with many exciting technologies, none of which has been implemented yet, which are more likely to see on consoles than on the PC.


In short, PS4 is the most balanced machine out there for the long term, and is more than capable to serve as long as PS3 did. XB1, on the other hand, although similar, is crippled by its inefficient design, with respect to the RAM Bandwidth. If only XB1 had incorporated GDDR5 instead of DDR3 + ESRAM (or at least a DDR3+GDDR5 solution similar to PS3), ditching the Kinect, things would be much rosier for it now.

Edit (1) :

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

STEAM SURVEY RESULTS:

Most Common Gamer PC (Not an average PC, which is way lower!):

OS Version: Windows 7 64 bit
System RAM:
8 GB (Most Common)
6 GB (Average)
4 GB (Median)

Intel CPU Speeds :2.3 Ghz to 2.69 Ghz
Physical CPUs : 2 cpus

Video Card Description : Intel HD Graphics 4000
VRAM :1024 MB

Primary Display Resolution :1920 x 1080

Free Hard Drive Space : 250 GB to 499 GB
Total Hard Drive Space : 250 GB to 499 GB

Edit (2):

* Now on the console side, we have 1080p TVs, which usually cannot view more than 60 frames, so there absolutely is no point in producing better than that on Modern Consoles...

* The CPUs, on the vast majority of the time, are not the bottleneck, and because those are gaming machines, not general purpose PCs, there is no point in putting a CPU on a console, that is faster than necessary, as long it is not a bottleneck on the games, and have sufficient performance for other tasks such as Bluray playback etc...

* RAM is abundant. It's a 16x increase from the earlier generation, which is unprecedented.
PS1 ( 2+1+0.5 MB) => PS2 (32+4 MB) => PS3 (256 + 256 MB) => PS4 (8 GB).
If you go ahead and check, the relative PC RAM with each generation was...
with PS1 : 8 MB, with PS2 : 128 MB, with PS3 : 1 GB, with PS4 : 4-6 GB...
so you see, PS4, for the first time in history has more RAM than the mainstream PC!

* Given that there is no point in producing an output greater than 1080p 60fps, the PS4 GPU has already shown that it's capable of 1080p and 60 fps, although not always at the same time, which will come by time. There really is no room beyond 1080p 60fps (which PCs may be capable of, but consoles just don't need)... 
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Edit (3)
I believe some of the reaction is due to the misunderstanding...

PS4 is easily outperformed by a relatively easy to configure desktop or a laptop today, nobody denies that.

However, I am trying to explain that PS4 is not a weak console, and is actually much faster than all previous Playstations, relatively to the competition of their era.

In other words, PC was and will always be faster than the consoles. However, the power gap with PS4 is not greater but actually smaller compared to the earlier playstations. To see that, just compare the games of each generation (PC to PS), especially the first generation. Playstation had never been this capable 

 

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Edit (4)

A PC Myth :   http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-card-myths,3694.html#xtor=RSS-998

Most people seem to ignore what I am actually saying and instead understand it the way they like it. Let me repeat, I am not claiming consoles have equal performance with high end PCs or there is no difference. Please read clearly....

The visible performance gap between PS4 and PCs at the maximum possibble resolution on the console of the era (dictated by the TV Standards, which is 1080p today, but was 720p last gen) is minimal. This gap used to be a lot larger with the PS3 vs PC, or PS2 vs PC, or PS1 vs PC. So, for its era, Playstation 4 is the most capable of all playstations. So yes, that is not a weak console at all, serves its purpose.

And yes, although X360 had a really good GPU for its time, it still had a significant disadvantage compared to the PC for various reasons, even at 720p or lower (the standard of the time). The same is true for PS3.

Once you settle for a highly reasonable 1080p to play, PS4 is way more than capable, and that is unless you want to go higher resolutions, which are just not possible on most TVs, and pointless for a console anyway. So if you don't game on a console any more, it's not because PS4 is weak (which it isn't) but it's because the common TV resolution is just not enough for you and/or you're spoiled by the ultra clarity provided to you by high end PC equipment.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

Around the Network

I don't know what to say and where to start...
At first it's consoles against PC, in the end PS4 against Xbone...

Nothing really new is heard and the mistakes are too much to mention here.



walsufnir said:
I don't know what to say and where to start...
At first it's consoles against PC, in the end PS4 against Xbone...

Nothing really new is heard and the mistakes are too much to mention here.


Do mention it please!



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

the only real mith is the one that tells the ps4 xbone are powerfull, because if you compared both of them with PC's you can't denied reality.



34 years playing games.

 

Let the kids " PC master race lol" spread the myth, and have fun on your console



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

Around the Network
freedquaker said:
walsufnir said:
I don't know what to say and where to start...
At first it's consoles against PC, in the end PS4 against Xbone...

Nothing really new is heard and the mistakes are too much to mention here.


Do mention it please!

 

First to start, octa-core is nice but the cores *are* low-performance. There are 2-core CPUs which have more performance, you cannot add all cores together, especially if they share ressources by a large amount.

Second, consoles have currently ~5GB of RAM available and gamer PCs easily have more and more free.

 

I agree it's a good jump to last-gen but don't go to the land of PC comparison, especially if details are not thoroughly understood.

But who cares for PC gaming, anyway?



Let's see what you object to...

* Now on the console side, we have 1080p TVs, which usually cannot view more than 60 frames, so there absolutely is no point in producing better than that on Modern PCs...

* The CPUs, on the vast majority of the time, are not the bottleneck, and because those are gaming machines, not general purpose PCs, there is no point in putting a CPU on a console, that is faster than necessary, as long it is not a bottleneck on the games, and have sufficient performance for other tasks such as Bluray playback etc...

* RAM is abundant. It's a 16x increase from the earlier generation, which is unprecedented.
PS1 ( 2+1+0.5 MB) => PS2 (32+4 MB) => PS3 (256 + 256 MB) => PS4 (8 GB).
If you go ahead and check, the relative PC RAM with each generation was...
with PS1 : 8 MB, with PS2 : 128 MB, with PS3 : 1 GB, with PS4 : 4-6 GB...
so you see, PS4, for the first time in history has more RAM than the mainstream PC!

* Given that there is no point in producing an output greater than 1080p 60fps, the PS4 GPU has already shown that it's capable of 1080p and 60 fps, although not always at the same time, which will come by time. There really is no room beyond 1080p 60fps (which PCs may be capable of, but consoles just don't need)...

Ok, now, say what do you object, instead of talking in a vague fashion!



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

freedquaker said:

the PC ports to the next-gen consoles look relatively way better without serious sacrificies.

 


Quote of the year

 

 

enjoy your console, or your pc, no matter what others say. 



freedquaker said:
Let's see what you object to...

* Now on the console side, we have 1080p TVs, which usually cannot view more than 60 frames, so there absolutely is no point in producing better than that on Modern PCs...

* The CPUs, on the vast majority of the time, are not the bottleneck, and because those are gaming machines, not general purpose PCs, there is no point in putting a CPU on a console, that is faster than necessary, as long it is not a bottleneck on the games, and have sufficient performance for other tasks such as Bluray playback etc...

* RAM is abundant. It's a 16x increase from the earlier generation, which is unprecedented.
PS1 ( 2+1+0.5 MB) => PS2 (32+4 MB) => PS3 (256 + 256 MB) => PS4 (8 GB).
If you go ahead and check, the relative PC RAM with each generation was...
with PS1 : 8 MB, with PS2 : 128 MB, with PS3 : 1 GB, with PS4 : 4-6 GB...
so you see, PS4, for the first time in history has more RAM than the mainstream PC!

* Given that there is no point in producing an output greater than 1080p 60fps, the PS4 GPU has already shown that it's capable of 1080p and 60 fps, although not always at the same time, which will come by time. There really is no room beyond 1080p 60fps (which PCs may be capable of, but consoles just don't need)...

Ok, now, say what do you object, instead of talking in a vague fashion!


I am vague? You are wildly mixing up "facts" to fit your opinion, it seems. I am not even sure what you really want to say.

You are not understanding the purpose of a cpu in computers, you make bold statements about bottlenecks without any further evidence,

and overall it seems like a "let's put PS4 in the right perspective"-article which is not necessary as anybody knows the facts.

Btw, even last-gen consoles could do 1080p60, why need more power?

PS: Where do you get the amount of RAM on a "standard" PC when each Playstation (I thought we are talking about consoles, but I get the idea what you really wanted to say in the first place) launched...



walsufnir said:
freedquaker said:
walsufnir said:
I don't know what to say and where to start...
At first it's consoles against PC, in the end PS4 against Xbone...

Nothing really new is heard and the mistakes are too much to mention here.


Do mention it please!

 

First to start, octa-core is nice but the cores *are* low-performance. There are 2-core CPUs which have more performance, you cannot add all cores together, especially if they share ressources by a large amount.

Those 2 core CPUs probably have better single threaded performance. ...

Second, consoles have currently ~5GB of RAM available and gamer PCs easily have more and more free.

Actually both Sony and microsoft haven't disclosed the memory reserved for their operating systems ...

I agree it's a good jump to last-gen but don't go to the land of PC comparison, especially if details are not thoroughly understood.

But who cares for PC gaming, anyway?