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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Developers are thinking AAA development very risk and jumping to risk free Indie Development [AAA games doomed]

 

How do you buy AAA games?

Good reviewed games only 27 23.28%
 
Good reviewed day one, av... 10 8.62%
 
Good reviewed day one, average/poor no buy 2 1.72%
 
Don't care reviews, depe... 46 39.66%
 
Don't care reviews, depends on developers 9 7.76%
 
Don't care reviews, depends on franchise 8 6.90%
 
Don't care reviews, but ... 14 12.07%
 
Total:116
aryu said:
JoeTheBro said:
aryu said:
Heavy Rain was published by Sony and for that reason, I don't consider it indie.


So Journey, The Unfinished Swan, Rime, etc. are not indie games?


Not in my opinion. I don't consider any game backed by a large publisher to be indie. For me, indie games are games developed by independent studios without the backing of huge publishers.

 

Edit: When I say backed, I mean being financially supported by a publisher. Heavy Rain was backed by Sony.


Considering Heavy Rain was supposedly to be exclusive to the Xbox 360, I can say Sony did not financially supported the dev, except for the publishing cost.



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Pemalite said:
biglittlesps said:
Pemalite said:
Price is a big factor.
The cheaper the price, the less weight people give to reviews and more games they buy.

Also, sales like what are on Steam... Actually increases profits, Valve stated this before, but after a sale, the sales rate is increased from before the sale, thus during and after the sale, the developer gets more money, this is something Microsoft and Sony needs to push for, no one does a games sale like Valve does and it really is good for everyone.

People only have finite sized wallets, prices for games have increased slowly, massively with all the DLC/Expansions/Pay Walls, just unfortunately some things needs to give, usually the first is less game purchases, more obscure developers end up missing out.


Yes, Price is a factor but you should realize that there are many people who are depending on gaming industry in retail games which is why it has high price compared steam digital sales which serves only three (Steam, developers and publishers). If the Console do the same then lot of people around the world will lose jobs and only Developers/Publishers will earn profits. Consoles are doing as much as they can to match digitial prices without impact on retails with their deals/sales every month.

Steam may have increased Indie sales with their deals but not many AAA sales compared to Consoles have mostly.


Retail stores are partly at fault.
Over the years before Steam came along they constantly reduced the amount of shelf space dedicated to PC games, it actually reached a stupid state, piracy began to run rampant.
Then Steam came along and solved all of the PC gamers problems.

Besides, Brick and Mortar stores may have stopped supporting PC games, but dozens of online business's have sprung up dedicated to that target demographic, like Green Man Gaming, Gamers Gate, Good Old Games and the plethera of CD Key websites.
It's Capitalism at it's finest, if there is demand, then that demand will be met by new business's, if you neglect the demand and don't change with the market conditions and fail, then you deserve to fail, that shouldn't be something that's prevented by government bailouts or special market conditions.

Besides, the "digital" price matching is pretty laughable, you looked at a new released game on the Xbox Live Network? It's usually the same price or more expensive than the version you can find in store, digital should be cheaper by default, there is no packaging, shipping, manufacturing or other extra's like manuals, guides and such that you're getting.

As for the last line on your post, it's difficult to understand it, could you elaborate? From what I can understand you're basically saying that AAA games don't benefit which is ironic, because even AAA games on Steam have benefitted from the sales, hence why Valve is happy to discount it's own franchises which have sold millions of copies already.

They do for a reason and its to balance the Retail and Digital. If they go cheaper in digital most of them will buy digital games then their retail sales will be less so the people who depend on this will be doomed. Gaming industry should provide help as many as possible with jobs instead of cutting the middle man and giving the games very cheap in digital.

AAA games benefit from steam sales but not makes great returns like Console sales does for the developers. Consoles can't do same sales very fast like Steam because it will make the retail games to be fade away along with the business of retailers and manufacturers who depend on them( which PC does not has any more like you said due to piracy). 

Xbox Live may not have but did you see PSN sales every weeek? They are providing very reasonable deals and sometimes great ones which happens every week.



GAMING is not about spending hours to pass/waste our time just for fun,

its a Feeling/Experience about a VIRTUAL WORLD we can never be in real, and realizing some of our dreams (also creating new ones).

So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.

PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.

Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.

Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.

JoeTheBro said:
This thread has been extremely informative.

I'm not an indie dev apparently :O


You are not. But again, you are not an AAA or AA developer, you're something in the middle!!!



Wright said:
aryu said:
JoeTheBro said:
aryu said:
Heavy Rain was published by Sony and for that reason, I don't consider it indie.


So Journey, The Unfinished Swan, Rime, etc. are not indie games?


Not in my opinion. I don't consider any game backed by a large publisher to be indie. For me, indie games are games developed by independent studios without the backing of huge publishers.

 

Edit: When I say backed, I mean being financially supported by a publisher. Heavy Rain was backed by Sony.


Considering Heavy Rain was supposedly to be exclusive to the Xbox 360, I can say Sony did not financially supported the dev, except for the publishing cost.

They funded the game development and they took most of the money(surely developers have some percentage) from the game sales until the game returns the funded money. Later the percentage of the profit for the developer increased and they are getting big royalties.



GAMING is not about spending hours to pass/waste our time just for fun,

its a Feeling/Experience about a VIRTUAL WORLD we can never be in real, and realizing some of our dreams (also creating new ones).

So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.

PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.

Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.

Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.

biglittlesps said:
Wright said:


Considering Heavy Rain was supposedly to be exclusive to the Xbox 360, I can say Sony did not financially supported the dev, except for the publishing cost.

They funded the game development and they took most of the money(surely developers have some percentage) from the game sales until the game returns the funded money. Later the percentage of the profit for the developer increased and they are getting big royalties.


And your source is?



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Wright said:
aryu said:
JoeTheBro said:
aryu said:
Heavy Rain was published by Sony and for that reason, I don't consider it indie.


So Journey, The Unfinished Swan, Rime, etc. are not indie games?


Not in my opinion. I don't consider any game backed by a large publisher to be indie. For me, indie games are games developed by independent studios without the backing of huge publishers.

 

Edit: When I say backed, I mean being financially supported by a publisher. Heavy Rain was backed by Sony.


Considering Heavy Rain was supposedly to be exclusive to the Xbox 360, I can say Sony did not financially supported the dev, except for the publishing cost.


Wait, are you telling me that Sony did not pay for any of the marketing costs or the development costs of Heavy Rain? Here's an article which led me to believe that Sony did indeed back the project specifically the final paragraph:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls



PS3, PS4, PSV, Wii U, 3DS + 3DS XL Owner.

PlayStation Nation

NNID: aminryu1

I need to stop buying games...

aryu said:
Wright said:


Considering Heavy Rain was supposedly to be exclusive to the Xbox 360, I can say Sony did not financially supported the dev, except for the publishing cost.


Wait, are you telling me that Sony did not pay for any of the marketing costs or the development costs of Heavy Rain? Here's an article which led me to believe that Sony did indeed back the project specifically the final paragraph:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls


I'll quote something interesting from that source:

 

"David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dreams developed product".

 

Look at this:

 

"David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dreams developed product".

 

Hence why they had already the game finished. That's why he's praising Sony; because he asked Microsoft to publish his finished game and they rejected it. Sony only paid for the publishing costs.

David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product.
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99


Wright said:
JoeTheBro said:
This thread has been extremely informative.

I'm not an indie dev apparently :O


You are not. But again, you are not an AAA or AA developer, you're something in the middle!!!


I cant say what I want to say, so I'll just say "sure"



JoeTheBro said:
Wright said:
JoeTheBro said:
This thread has been extremely informative.

I'm not an indie dev apparently :O


You are not. But again, you are not an AAA or AA developer, you're something in the middle!!!


I cant say what I want to say, so I'll just say "sure"


Don't be shy, say it :3



Wright said:
aryu said:
Wright said:


Considering Heavy Rain was supposedly to be exclusive to the Xbox 360, I can say Sony did not financially supported the dev, except for the publishing cost.


Wait, are you telling me that Sony did not pay for any of the marketing costs or the development costs of Heavy Rain? Here's an article which led me to believe that Sony did indeed back the project specifically the final paragraph:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls


I'll quote something interesting from that source:

 

"David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dreams developed product".

 

Look at this:

 

"David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dreams developed product".

 

Hence why they had already the game finished. That's why he's praising Sony; because he asked Microsoft to publish his finished game and they rejected it. Sony only paid for the publishing costs.

David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product.
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99
David Cage, says that the only reason it was able to become a "commercial success" was because Sony had enough "balls" to take a risk on the Quantic Dream developed product
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102834-Heavy-Rain-Creator-Praises-Sonys-Balls#W8HQxVwFgt2APGjm.99

What about marketing costs? If Sony paid for that, then I won't consider even a 'developed product' as an indie title.



PS3, PS4, PSV, Wii U, 3DS + 3DS XL Owner.

PlayStation Nation

NNID: aminryu1

I need to stop buying games...