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Final Fantasy XIII series sold over 10 million games, do they deserve it?

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FinalFantasyXIII said:

Ehhh actually no not going into that, the reason you don't really need NPC's in FFXIII is it's cinematic by nature, it's a technologically advanced society too. They dont sell axes because this game doesn't take place in the middle freaking ages if you failed to notice. It's also to fast paced of a story to be slowed down by FF NPC troping, and it also trys to keep tension constant imho along with the battle system. Your whole party is branded L-Cie, you are under constant survelience and trying to hide by the Santum and Fal Cie and move forward without being seen, and not be detected even the townsfolk will sell you out because they're so brainwashed by Fal Cie they truely think you're the enemy. So why the f*** would you go to a town and talk to EVERY NPC WRIGHT? When the CHARACTERS ARE BRANDED? The story only sucks because people like yourself FAIL to understand basic concepts in the games story!

The story revolves around the characters specifically, not NPCs in towns. There's no generic stuff like "Oh hey!" "my daddy was a miner and now they're alot of monsters in the mines, it's really bad you need to be careful going into said mine/cave/dungeon! Take an Axe! You know what I mean? Well you probably don't...ugh.

 

Let me see if I understand this.

 

FinalFantasyXIII said:

It's also to fast paced of a story to be slowed down by FF NPC troping,

 

Bodhum was NPC troping, badly done. But SE did NPC troping anyway. There's unnecesary troping in other situations (one I'll quote just in the next point), so it is dumb to not put actual meaningful conversations or banal trivia. It didn't hurt them to do so.

 

FinalFantasyXIII said:

So why the f*** would you go to a town and talk to EVERY NPC WRIGHT? When the CHARACTERS ARE BRANDED?

 

 

Not only that, but they also watched the show and screw around with the chocobos. Which also comes to my first point; they could have implemented some kind of minigame here. A chocobo race or something. Duh, no, let's chase a small chocobo just to be rewarded with a stupid ring. Thanks SE.

They did went to a city knowing the full implications of it. Oh! Let me bring that image of yours again!

 

Did anyone noticed in Nautilus? No. So moot point.

 

FinalFantasyXIII said:

 The story only sucks because people like yourself FAIL to understand basic concepts in the games story!

 

I never said the story suck. :)  But you see, because the story wants the characters to "hurry" doesn't mean they can't have time to spare. This is not a flaw in the story; it's a videogame design. There was no hurry when people were on Pulse, were they? Or why would they go back to Pulse after reaching Eden's heart instead of going and fighting Barthandaleus at the moment? Well, let me tell you: the story wants the characters to hurry, but the gameplay don't. This is no Zelda: Majora's Mask on which you have the constat looming of the moon. No, there's no excuse for not puting a proper city or village NPC. And if you're going to go back to the "hurry story" thing, check this:

 

FinalFantasyXIII said:

 

There's no generic stuff like "Oh hey!" "my daddy was a miner and now they're alot of monsters in the mines, it's really bad you need to be careful going into said mine/cave/dungeon! Take an Axe! You know what I mean? Well you probably don't...ugh.

 

 

There's over sixty things of these ^. Let me ask you a question, why would the party try and do over sixty Cie'th missions if, according to you, the basic concept of the in-game story forces these guys to keep moving on?

SO WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PULSE AND MAKE EVERY MISSION? When the CHARACTERS ARE BRANDED? Don't use the story to justify the unjustifiable; you FAIL to grasp the basic concepts of videogame design shielding behind a complex storyline.

 

EDIT: In any case, I'm glad XIII series sold over 10 million games, but I already said that.



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FinalFantasyXIII said:

X I won't know until I play the remaster.

So yeah I don't think that's a valid knock to FFXIII because the post game/end game content is up there with the best imho.

... You're in for a treat, because X has the best end game content of the Final Fantasy games, that's in both quality and quantity, or atleast in my opinion anyways, others might not agree, but yeah there's lots to do it's insane! :D



You just blew my mind. I'm totally blown and I can't think righ now. I need breakfast ttyl guys.



FinalFantasyXIII said:

A203D said:ultimately I feel the series needs to drastically improve to recapture many

of the fans who were unhappy with the FF13 series.


FFXV will do just that imho. It has the Kingdom Hearts dev's behind it and the power of the PS4+SE.

oniyide said:
FinalFantasyXIII said:
A203D said:
Is this really an achievement? Selling 10 mil copies over 2 games across multiple platforms, with a total of what 8 - 10 years of development?

Like I've said before. The numbers speak for themselves. FF13-2 sold a lot less copies than its predecessor for obvious reasons. 10 mil copies is good, yet hardly an achievement for this series of games.


In FFXIII's defense it had a lower budget than FFVI,VII, VIII, and IX if you factor in inflation.

you got proof? that sounds like a lie. hell it probably is. 


http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Most_expensive_video_games

Gilgamesh said:
Seece said:

Game deserves to sell what exactly what it sells. Never got this 'deserving' attitude? One mans trash is another mans treasure.

Well when a game like FFXIII is hyped to the stratosphere millions of people bought it just because it was the new main Final Fantasy game. There should be somewhat of an expection for a game like this but instead people hated it and so they made a second one, and people hated that even more and it got even less sales so what do they do, they make a third one, beating a dead horse anyone? Move on. Not to mention their being lazy reusing stuff thats been cut out of the first FFXIII game.


FFXIII isn't the only FF in town.

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn PS4 launcehs soon.

Final Fantasy III Ouya

 You have all the VC/PSN re-releases, the PSP Final Fantasy Type-0/Vita/DS re-releases and newer stuff like bravely Default for the 3DS. Along with FFLR and FFX-X2 Remakes and Kingdom Hearts Remakes. That's a huge amount of content SE is cranking out for us FF/JRPG fans imho. I like the FFXIII world so them reusing things makes total sense to me. :) If you don't prefer FFXIII there is plenty of other options SE has available. I don't see the reason to get all angry because FFXIII is not their only available title in quite some time.


where are FF13 info for how much it cost? Less say it was cheaper to make. Pretty sure that it didnt make them as much money as FF7 at least, especially considering that people are STILL buying that game.



oniyide said:
FinalFantasyXIII said:

A203D said:ultimately I feel the series needs to drastically improve to recapture many

of the fans who were unhappy with the FF13 series.


FFXV will do just that imho. It has the Kingdom Hearts dev's behind it and the power of the PS4+SE.

oniyide said:
FinalFantasyXIII said:
A203D said:
Is this really an achievement? Selling 10 mil copies over 2 games across multiple platforms, with a total of what 8 - 10 years of development?

Like I've said before. The numbers speak for themselves. FF13-2 sold a lot less copies than its predecessor for obvious reasons. 10 mil copies is good, yet hardly an achievement for this series of games.


In FFXIII's defense it had a lower budget than FFVI,VII, VIII, and IX if you factor in inflation.

you got proof? that sounds like a lie. hell it probably is. 


http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Most_expensive_video_games

Gilgamesh said:
Seece said:

Game deserves to sell what exactly what it sells. Never got this 'deserving' attitude? One mans trash is another mans treasure.

Well when a game like FFXIII is hyped to the stratosphere millions of people bought it just because it was the new main Final Fantasy game. There should be somewhat of an expection for a game like this but instead people hated it and so they made a second one, and people hated that even more and it got even less sales so what do they do, they make a third one, beating a dead horse anyone? Move on. Not to mention their being lazy reusing stuff thats been cut out of the first FFXIII game.


FFXIII isn't the only FF in town.

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn PS4 launcehs soon.

Final Fantasy III Ouya

 You have all the VC/PSN re-releases, the PSP Final Fantasy Type-0/Vita/DS re-releases and newer stuff like bravely Default for the 3DS. Along with FFLR and FFX-X2 Remakes and Kingdom Hearts Remakes. That's a huge amount of content SE is cranking out for us FF/JRPG fans imho. I like the FFXIII world so them reusing things makes total sense to me. :) If you don't prefer FFXIII there is plenty of other options SE has available. I don't see the reason to get all angry because FFXIII is not their only available title in quite some time.


where are FF13 info for how much it cost? Less say it was cheaper to make. Pretty sure that it didnt make them as much money as FF7 at least, especially considering that people are STILL buying that game.


FF7 = 368 Million with (2013) inflation considered

FF13 =77 Million (2013)

Going by those numbers , and if FFXIII-2 was half the budget of the first maybe the whole series of FFXIII should be in the 150-200Million range. So if 175 Million overall that would be half of FF7's budget, and the FFXIII series should easily match overall sales between these 2 series and like you claim FF7 is still selling. Likewise I'm sure FFXIII series is still sellling in small numbers.

Which is better? As always that's for "you" to decide. Not me. :) But FFXIII is better than 7 ;)



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Wright said:Let me see if I understand this.

I never said the story suck. :)  But you see, because the story wants the characters to "hurry" doesn't mean they can't have time to spare. This is not a flaw in the story; it's a videogame design. There was no hurry when people were on Pulse, were they? Or why would they go back to Pulse after reaching Eden's heart instead of going and fighting Barthandaleus at the moment? Well, let me tell you: the story wants the characters to hurry, but the gameplay don't. This is no Zelda: Majora's Mask on which you have the constat looming of the moon. No, there's no excuse for not puting a proper city or village NPC. And if you're going to go back to the "hurry story" thing, check this:

There's over sixty things of these ^. Let me ask you a question, why would the party try and do over sixty Cie'th missions if, according to you, the basic concept of the in-game story forces these guys to keep moving on?

SO WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PULSE AND MAKE EVERY MISSION? When the CHARACTERS ARE BRANDED? Don't use the story to justify the unjustifiable; you FAIL to grasp the basic concepts of videogame design shielding behind a complex storyline.

 

EDIT: In any case, I'm glad XIII series sold over 10 million games, but I already said that.


Alright then same goes for mini-games in all FF games then if you want to complain about that. If the worlds in immenent doom, sorry there's no time for silly meaningless mini games. So yeah you explain why they should be in there or just don't because what you're arguing against is pure hyperbole on your part then. Why would we need them?

Let me tell you what, I didn't finish hardly any Cieth Stones until post game, meaning after I defeated Orphan. And if the worlds ending or in doom like FF6=Kefka threat he already destroyed most of the world and he was about to finish the job etc., or FF7 Sephiroth and Mako reactor/radioactive spills and destroying the universe and planets. Then there should be no need for mini games in those titles as well as FFXIII. But there they ARE but not in FFXIII? Because get this... the game designer just felt something like, hey we are the ones making the game NOT YOU and we can throw in some more hopefully fun content. That's it. Now here's the most important point I have. I DON'T BUY FF For MINI GAMES. I BUY IT FOR THE MAIN STORY/Battle System/soundtrack etc. If you bought FFXIII just for mini games and the ability to shop/stay at an Inn or talk with troped NPC's.....wow I didn't even know that was the important criteria on judging a FF game. News to me. Ever since FF1/4 I always felt the game was about battle system/story/characters/soundtrack/graphics/entertainment. Mini games be damned imo.

I look at those Cieth Stones and mini games as extra content, and I don't judge the presence in videogames. I simply don't care for mini games they mean nothing to me in a FF game.Seems like you're jusdging the story of FFXIII like it's to say on the same level of a Mark Twain/Doestoevsky novel. In that everything needs to tie together so perfectly and no small error in the plot/story could ever surface. This is a deep videogame though, not a deep novel. I think in every story artform you can find a little inconsistancy like you have and blow it out of proportion. With your complaints I feel as if you're judging a story in a FF game like I would if I compared it to a 300+ page deep novel from a legendary author that most likely spent years on just the story, they didn't have to create a soundtrack/art/and game enviroment etc. in less time too. Videogames are sadly still imho at the entertainment short story 200 page *entertainment* level. In the case of FFXIII I consider it maybe alongside a Magic the Gathering paperback slightly different though, and they usually throw in some Twilight type love story twists+more characters. Maybe a little Sci-Fi too. (OOps now people know I know the Twilight story in general hee hee) I don't consider FFXIII like it a Brothers Karamzov or Tolstoy etc.

You folks who complain about FFXIII are so picky it's excessive for me. You just prove you're a picky person and will find the smallest detail to complain about to justify your displaced hate or confusion/frustration because really it's just different than your nostalgia based opinions, and FFXIII challenged you to learn a redisgned battle system.

Like where's a mini game? WAHHHH! Or well if the story is so fast paced why do I need to do this part!!  Because I think that I shouldn't have had to do that part! etc. The designer felt that was the way they wanted it. NO MINI GAMES! If you can't understand that then you should either be making the JRPG games with mini games in your spare time, and be a millionaire (because everyone wants mini games in their FF's?! obviously lol) or stop playing them because you sound upset over spilt water.

Mini games and Inns missing....sheesh pay attention to how much time was obviously spent on the story/characters/battle system/soundtrack/super good voice acting/graphics/pre rendered cutscenes and overall content next time. Nit picking that u wanted a chocobo mini game or stay the night at an Inn or talk to lame NPC's or else it is basically game breaking or so extremely needed? is hilarious imho. Thx for the laughs Wright. I just think you're overeacting, and maybe I'm overeacting but you made me defend my opinion and there it is.



FinalFantasyXIII said:


What you gotta do is relax and sink other's opinions as that, opinions. You can't defend what I consider a flaw, because, fundamentally, I'm the one considering it a flaw.

 

So you say XIII challenged me to learn a redesigned battle system? Oh, it challenged me already. It challenged me throughout the whole game, because, basically, that's where the meat of the game relied heavily the 95%.

 

You fundamentally defended just one point, ignoring the others, and that's when you focused on the minigames. I never said the game should have had minigames as pillar for carrying on the game. No. But there, have fun in Nautilus, boarding the marine elevators (Is there a point in taking the elevator that takes you to the beginning of Nautilus, again?) hoping for a minigame or a gameplay variation of some sort only to be teased with more and more "pre-rendered" cutscenes. You dare to speak about overall content? The overall content of the game is that challenge to the player to learn the redesigned battle system, like you enjoy saying. Tell me, was there any other content to be found? Oh, yes, chasing Sazh's chocobo only to receive a stupid 15% Lightning defense ring. Thanks for the ride, SE.

 

And now it's when you come with your "personal" way to play forcing it like a fact. Cie'th as a extra content? Doubtful. You're pretty much forced to do some Cie'th missions, so the game itself - not you, sorry - acknowledges these Cie'th stones as a gameplay element. You need to do them, no other way around. I'm sorry, but there's nothing "extra" in doing something you're pretty much forced to do, although in Cie'th's defense, I enjoyed them.

 

Seriously, where's this part on which you say the game designer purposedly didn't include minigames to add more fun content? Where's this fun content to be found, aside from the Cie'th's and the combat system? Let me tell you: there ain't one. Because those two elements fundamentally carry on the game.

 

Of course I'm going to pay attention to the story. I'm basically jumping from cutscene to cutscene. Jeez, of course I'm going to enjoy the story. But I enjoyed XIII's story as much as I enjoy other game stories, so here's the thing: I want gameplay as well. Oh, you say I need to enjoy the graphics? I take extra content over graphics anyday.

That's it, that's my opinion, and those are the flaws I find. You can argue whatever you want, but what I consider a flaw, a flaw it is. You can enjoy the superb graphics and animations, though, if that's your cup of tea.

 

EDIT: Glad you laughed at my opinion, by the way. That's pretty thoughtful and respectful. At least one of us is laughing.



FinalFantasyXIII said:
oniyide said:


where are FF13 info for how much it cost? Less say it was cheaper to make. Pretty sure that it didnt make them as much money as FF7 at least, especially considering that people are STILL buying that game.


FF7 = 368 Million with (2013) inflation considered

FF13 =77 Million (2013)

Going by those numbers , and if FFXIII-2 was half the budget of the first maybe the whole series of FFXIII should be in the 150-200Million range. So if 175 Million overall that would be half of FF7's budget, and the FFXIII series should easily match overall sales between these 2 series and like you claim FF7 is still selling. Likewise I'm sure FFXIII series is still sellling in small numbers.

Which is better? As always that's for "you" to decide. Not me. :) But FFXIII is better than 7 ;)

lol Where did you pull these numbers for Production costs ... just no
FF7 production cost was around $45 million which interestingly  "It was the most expensive video game of its time, with a budget of around US$45 million"
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII
And your Math is quite wrong, with Inflation $45 milllion then would be like $65 Million now not "$368 million"
source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
I cant find a Solid number for FF13 but a lot of sources tend to agree with around the number you stated with it being upwards of $80 Million

Still with these numbers said It shows with the success on scale with both 7 and 13 it shows with sales as 7 has sold more and was more well recieved from both a Critics stanpoint and also the General public in gaming.
You could Still like 13 more then 7, that is your opinion. But the simple fact there is a thread like this really shows everyone that 13 was probly the most unloved of the Final fantasy games as there really are no other threads saying this about any of the other FF games.






Muffin31190 said:
FinalFantasyXIII said:
oniyide said:


where are FF13 info for how much it cost? Less say it was cheaper to make. Pretty sure that it didnt make them as much money as FF7 at least, especially considering that people are STILL buying that game.


FF7 = 368 Million with (2013) inflation considered

FF13 =77 Million (2013)

Going by those numbers , and if FFXIII-2 was half the budget of the first maybe the whole series of FFXIII should be in the 150-200Million range. So if 175 Million overall that would be half of FF7's budget, and the FFXIII series should easily match overall sales between these 2 series and like you claim FF7 is still selling. Likewise I'm sure FFXIII series is still sellling in small numbers.

Which is better? As always that's for "you" to decide. Not me. :) But FFXIII is better than 7 ;)

lol Where did you pull these numbers for Production costs ... just no
FF7 production cost was around $45 million which interestingly  "It was the most expensive video game of its time, with a budget of around US$45 million"
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII
And your Math is quite wrong, with Inflation $45 milllion then would be like $65 Million now not "$368 million"
source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
I cant find a Solid number for FF13 but a lot of sources tend to agree with around the number you stated with it being upwards of $80 Million

Still with these numbers said It shows with the success on scale with both 7 and 13 it shows with sales as 7 has sold more and was more well recieved from both a Critics stanpoint and also the General public in gaming.
You could Still like 13 more then 7, that is your opinion. But the simple fact there is a thread like this really shows everyone that 13 was probly the most unloved of the Final fantasy games as there really are no other threads saying this about any of the other FF games.





READ do I have to do it for you?! I guess so open wide then!

Development+Manufacturing+Marketing costs. Big picture. READ the article next time. Save us all the EMBARRASSSSSMENT.



FinalFantasyXIII said:
Muffin31190 said:

lol Where did you pull these numbers for Production costs ... just no
FF7 production cost was around $45 million which interestingly  "It was the most expensive video game of its time, with a budget of around US$45 million"
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII
And your Math is quite wrong, with Inflation $45 milllion then would be like $65 Million now not "$368 million"
source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
I cant find a Solid number for FF13 but a lot of sources tend to agree with around the number you stated with it being upwards of $80 Million

Still with these numbers said It shows with the success on scale with both 7 and 13 it shows with sales as 7 has sold more and was more well recieved from both a Critics stanpoint and also the General public in gaming.
You could Still like 13 more then 7, that is your opinion. But the simple fact there is a thread like this really shows everyone that 13 was probly the most unloved of the Final fantasy games as there really are no other threads saying this about any of the other FF games.





READ do I have to do it for you?! I guess so open wide then!

Development+Manufacturing+Marketing costs. Big picture. READ the article next time. Save us all the EMBARRASSSSSMENT.

lol this is too funny XD
Do you not know what production cost is? 
Here is an Idea for you for what goes into the production cost of a game, http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_costs
(I mean you could have just googled it yourself)

Also maybe you should read the Article next time as I have and the maybe you will see that there is no source claiming the cost of FF7 to be $368 million (inflation included), seriosuly you have pulled this number from somewhere magical. No source no proof but its cool, I'll save you the embarrassment. If you can find a legitimate source then I will believe you but until then what you have said is complete BS in terms of prodiction costs which include "Development+Manufacturing+Marketing costs".

edit: I see your source now but it may not be very legitimate, in sense that i dont see it costing 100 million to make CD's for manufacture in 1997.