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Forums - Sales Discussion - Why claims of eighth-gen "doom"/"domination" are premature. *long post*

I am just gonna go based on the title and I think you are correct... I don't understand why some people are saying that the 8th gen is doomed when we have games such as X, FFXV, KH3, TitanFall, Smash Bros and many more coming along the way... People also said that the 3ds was going to fail due to the competition of android and ios devices but its clearly selling... Will it sell as much as the DS? Maybe not but its far from failure



                  

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The Wii U is doing really terrible compared to everything. I'm not saying it won't go down in history books, but I just don't expect it to do that amazing. Although they still can probably profit alot, just like the Gamecube era actually profited more than the PS2.



Need a +1 button.



My 8th gen collection

QFT. Nothing more needs to be said. Being a launch PS3 owner myself, I can attest that launch doesn't define a console. Lucky for me back then, ps3s had BC and there were still awesome PS2 games like Persona 4 getting released so I didn't feel the pain too much. This may be different for Wii U owners since the wii hasn't had any significant new release in a while itself.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

I believe you are using the PS3 to prove your point a bit to much, its the only console ever to recover so strong from such a slow start. While your numbers are great, WiiU struggles and PS3 ones are not the same and none should expect the U to maybe potentially if the stars align just right to recover like the 3 did.

I see the WiiU going more as the Dreamcast, right now ill be lucky to pull GC numbers and N64 like sales would be a massive success then making a even remotely similar comeback to the PS3 would be a miracle.

Personally WiiUs greatest weakness in Ninty it self, they are foolishly stubborn and in ways plain old ignorant of reality. Sony fixed and made up for their early shortcomings, its been over a year on the market and I see Ninty doing anything of relevance.

As far as PS4 domminance, its pretty much stars aligned just right and its no stopping it, price is just to damn good.  PS brand to strong and Sony got their shit together as if threatened with damnation by the devil if they were to fail.  They got the price games 3rd partys online future(psnow) old and new franchises easy to dev on hardware and most powerfull to boot.  PS4 right now is Scuderia F1 circa 1999, expect total domintaion for next half a decade.



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BeElite said:

I believe you are using the PS3 to prove your point a bit to much, its the only console ever to recover so strong from such a slow start. While your numbers are great, WiiU struggles and PS3 ones are not the same and none should expect the U to maybe potentially if the stars align just right to recover like the 3 did.


The OP never actually made any predictions in his topic. It was all just pure fact and numbers. If he made a prediction, he would almost be going back on what his whole topic was about. 



NintendoPie said:
BeElite said:

I believe you are using the PS3 to prove your point a bit to much, its the only console ever to recover so strong from such a slow start. While your numbers are great, WiiU struggles and PS3 ones are not the same and none should expect the U to maybe potentially if the stars align just right to recover like the 3 did.


The OP never actually made any predictions in his topic. It was all just pure fact and numbers. If he made a prediction, he would almost be going back on what his whole topic was about. 

Hes using the PS3 turnaround as a way to prove his point that doom/dommination are premature.

As i said good numbers and yes facts, but i see them lacking relevence as far as current gen.  To me the writing is on the wall, PS3 recovery will not make me doubt wiius failure or PS4 domminance.  

So i say the doom/domminance is not premature no matter how fact those numbers are, its just an honest acceptance of where the market is heading.



Maybe but we can easily claim that PS4 will dominate X1, that's for sure, obvious, mass lead in europe +Japan, even if in the best scenario for Microsoft X1 beat PS4 in US.

I'll wait for Mario Kart to judge about X1vs Wii U, since Wii U has Japan



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

Shadow1980 said:

I'm not directly comparing the PS3's situation and the Wii U's situation. They faced different obstacles. The PS3 had to deal with a high price, a later start than the 360, the surprise success of the Wii, and, to a lesser extent, a lack of compelling exclusives, while the Wii U was having to deal with minimal advertising as well as the single worst game drought faced by a mainstream system (people buy Nintendo systems mainly for Nintendo games, which the Wii U had none, while the PS3 was able to rely on third-party sales). However, I am using the PS3 (and every other system) to illustrate that simplistic "System A is selling at x% of System B" analyses are woefully naive. We don't know if the Wii U's 2014 baseline will improve over 2013's, or if big games like Mario Kart 8 will boost sales, or what have you. It could rebound, or it could continue to fall flat. I think with more games that people buy Nintendo systems to play, lower price & better bundles, and heavier advertising, it could do a lot better this year, while others think that not even that will be enough. Both are reasonable guesses.

Also, comparing the Wii U to the Dreamcast is even more baseless than comparing it to the GameCube. With the Dreamcast, Sega was coming off of the Saturn, which was a failure everywhere but Japan (where it still only did okay), plus Sega had nothing to fall back on. While the Dreamcast did rather well early on, Sega decided to cut their losses in the face of the juggernaut that was the PS2 and withdraw from the hardware market. We don't know how much it would have sold had Sega been willing and able to continue onward. Meanwhile, Nintendo is coming off of the success of the Wii, plus they have their successful handhelds division. They've amassed a ton of cash from the DS and Wii, and the 3DS is selling very well. Ergo, Nintendo has no reason to withdraw from the hardware market like Sega did, and thus the Wii U won't face the same fate as the Dreamcast. Unless it has a catastrophic 2014 and doesn't recover, it will almost certainly sell more than 10 million units, and it won't be discontinued anytime soon.


Oh, I have no doubts that the PS4 will be the sales leader. However, any projections of lifetime sales are just guesses. Just because it had a record launch doesn't entail that it will go on to outsell the PS2. I think it could sell close to PS2 numbers, but there's no way of knowing what its long-term sales curve will look like (i.e., how fast it will grow prior to peaking, when it will peak, and how fast it will decline after peaking). It could continue to trend ahead of the PS3 or even the PS2 for several years, but could taper off much quicker and end up selling only 120 million. Or it could go on untold heights and sell 200 million units. Or its sales curve might be different from the PS2's but have the same endpoint of 150-160 million. Or it might only marginally outsell the PS3 for any of a number of reasons (such as bombing in Japan). We just don't know. With the system being only two months old and all the various factors that cause systems to sell what they do (supply constraints, demand-influencing factors like price, games, etc., and perhaps various other things), we can't make any projections with any degree of confidence. It's all very rough guesswork. As the years go by, we might be able to make predictions of its lifetime sales with greater confidence, but even then it's something you have to take week by week, month by month, and year by year.


But you kind are, PS3 is your prime example why not to make rushed doom and gloom predictions.  While your thread is the product of the wii doom and PS4 dommination notions on the site.  Thus though you may not be directly comparing them your asking the reader to directly take PS3 as example and not to doomify the wiiU as PS3 proves a hell of alot can change over a few years. kinda are ehh.

A far as DC comparison, im not saying they will leave hardware market.  But they may kill the WiiU early like sega did the DC, its sales are not showing me a bright future to look forward to.  GC did something like 2/3rds of N64 sales, Wiiu is looking like it will struggle to do 1/4 of its predecessors sales.  Not a bad reason to kill it and start fresh, yes they can lose money supporting it but why would or should they.

Be it 120m or 200m Ps4 will domminate, Im not arguing numebrs but the out come seems decided given PS4 has just to many advantages for X1 to overcome.  




To make a counter point, I think we have yet to see how dominating / doomed these systems are.

As far as domination, the PS4 is outselling the X1 by 50% WW while still supply constrained and has one more major launch to go. By the time it launches in Japan it could be outselling by 100%. Will Titanfall be able to double the X1's sales? If not then PS4 will have a significant lead this year which will start swaying more developer exclusivity in it's favor.

As far as doom, with still low numbers of Wii U installed base and now that combined PS4+X1 sales are greater than Wii U sales I think we'll see even worse 3rd party support. Personally I don't believe you can have a very successful system without solid 3rd party.

So while I totally support that it's too soon to jump to long reaching conclusions, things can go either way - more or less domination, more or less doom.



My 8th gen collection