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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The origin of "casual/hardcore gamers" and other industry bullshit.

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DonFerrari said:
And apparently the gaming industrie have been growing with these so called hardcores from PS1 100M to PS2 160M to PS3+X360 currently at 160M... while going casual Nintendo have hit just one time 100M but not the same level of SW attach ratio... so why would pubs give more attention to "hardcores"??

I'm so tired of the victimism (from feminists and some winny gammers)... they try to invert logic, like its devs fault for not catering for them and not them investing in devs that cater... if devs get their money from their supporters for those kind of games why would they allienate the granted buyers to try and cater to people that don't know why they buy and what to buy?


I agree with this and will add some.

Indeed, the gaming industry has been growing. Just add the total sales for each generation and you will see it clearly. The allocation of those new entries demonstrates the gaming style of preference. Clearly there is a grand amount of people out there who want to play "casually". This does not mean Nintendo. It means that when they get home after a tiring day, they need to settle and relax with a game that does not require much on behalf of the player. Some simple arcade, a mindless shooter or whatever fits your bill.

We then come to a point where the industry seeks what those people like to play. Is it shooters? Do shooters sell? They will mass-produce them until they become unprofitable again. Is it motion games, with cameras or other devices? The market will be flooded with those. If the analysts believe that the profit will be worth it, whole console developping strategies will be based on it (see XB1 and Kinect2).

We need to understand that the industry is a soulless and money eating beast (and rightly so). They don't care what "the few" like. They will fork out what people buys most -> what will bring them more profit. I, myself, hate this. I tend to cling to indie games which bring me the nostalgia of the "old school": the 8-bit and 16-bit. But I cannot expect the industry to go back to the late 80s.

To conclude, such was Nintendo's decision regarding Wii. They anticipated that motion sensing is what people are going to go crazy about and invested on it. They wanted the money and they succeeded. Such was their success, that the other two dropped the "mantle of seriousness" and set sail to the same direction. Because in that direction lied the pot of gold, at least at the time.



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

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Let's add some more...

Perhaps, this will make seem a little mean towards ninty, but what the heck, we're having a discussion here.

I'd like you to consider what was Nintendo's move after the Wii. Seeing "the rise of tablets" (who would have missed it?) they tried to merge the two worlds. They created a tablet-joypad to appeal to tablet lovers and embedded the innovation of dual screen gameplay. A sound strategy, if I've ever seen any. So they rushed to get to that ground first. Be the first to grasp that market. They didn't need a strong machine for that! So they set upon the conquest of a new gaming trend.

Yet, it didn't work out (so far at least), as the essence that drew gamers to tablet gaming was not the tablet itself. It was the nature of its games. Connect three gems in a line and here the rewarding "bling", accompanied with flashes and colours and topped with a counter that changes its dials with speed like the old-time cash counters. Bringing, in this manner, the feelings of success, rewarding, glamour, glory and...profit with a few, nearly mindless moves. Rewarding that they didn't find in family life, job or otherwise. Success, that does not come easily, despite the full hours of every day hard work and the toll they take. Glory, that is so praised on movies and shows and so coveted. Money, which is as real in their pockets, as the numbers on the counter.

It's pure psychology.



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

I don't know if Nintendo was explicitly copying tablets with the Wii u, it could have been that they were trying to duplicate their DS, which is highly successful, in a console form.

 

Also, regarding the thread topic, I also believe that the terms casual and hardcore are bs, at least as the terms that are currently being used. There are definite ways to divide the types of games that people play, but I don't believe that these terms are usually used very accurately at all. From a true definition standpoint, hardcore/casual should be completely irrelevant to if a game has cartoon graphics, has family playability, or has characters that appeal to children.

IMO it should be used to describe how in-depth someone gets into a game. Personally, i don't even believe it should be used to describe people that play the game often, but not in depth, although of course thats just my opinion and can easily be argued.

For example, I believe these are examples of what should actually be hardcore:

-Players that are capable of participating in a tournament of a game

-Players that do stuff like speed-runs

-Players that try to unlock everything in a game or get 100% completion

-Players that carefully try to create the best builds in an rpg/mmo type of game and are constantly analyzing their current ones

-Basically anyone that strives to completely understand every part of a game and how to optimize their play to take advantage of the mechanics.

Once again, I mention that this type of player can apply to almost any game.

 

The way the market usually uses the term hardcore I think usually describes gamers that like to play games, probably usually with realistic type graphics, often times online, and often times they play alot. However, I honestly believe that alot of these people that sit around and play Call of Duty all day don't neccessarily engage in what I consider to be "hardcore" i.e. analyzing the game mechanics, etc, and I think any actual "hardcore" player would be able to take up a new game and within a month probably be able to destroy a regular guy whos been playing it for a year.



The image Nintendo consoles have does scream casual more so than the other 2 consoles on the market, not sure how to got to this stage but the Wii probably didn't help it's image ( In the hardcore sense).

Nintendo consoles have been the "uncool" console for a while now. We hear of the console wars but it's basically always been Sony vs MS with Nintendo fans waving their arms in the background wanting to join the war.



Very interesting article.
Smart perspective.
I'm putting it in my favorites.

John Lucas



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!

 

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bucky1965 said:
DonFerrari said:
bucky1965 said:

The point is the money is in the casual market. Prime example, 3ds, its target market is everyone. Vita is marketed towards hardcore gamers. Which one sells more? Hmm. (the rise of mobile too.) The hardcore gamer individually spends more. But as a group, casual gamers put more money into the industry. So target marketing one group has its pros and cons.

And that is assuming that all casual demographic is the same ¬¬"


The casual demographic is a gray area. The definition of a casual gamer boils down to personal opinion. 

So saying the industry allienates this group is silly, even more when you defend they gave the most part of the revenue... how would they do that if they aren't looked for?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Devil_Survivor said:
DonFerrari said:
And apparently the gaming industrie have been growing with these so called hardcores from PS1 100M to PS2 160M to PS3+X360 currently at 160M... while going casual Nintendo have hit just one time 100M but not the same level of SW attach ratio... so why would pubs give more attention to "hardcores"??

I'm so tired of the victimism (from feminists and some winny gammers)... they try to invert logic, like its devs fault for not catering for them and not them investing in devs that cater... if devs get their money from their supporters for those kind of games why would they allienate the granted buyers to try and cater to people that don't know why they buy and what to buy?


Dont't try to compare feminists to little whinny gamers because feminists actually had some cases to be made for being the victims of discrimnation like not being able to vote, getting paid the same for the same work as men, not being able to get a divorce, etc. 

I can compare when the poster do that himself... and I'm not talking about real feminists from the beggining of the last centurie... I'm saying about the new ones that complain about earning less but accept the maternity leave and early retirement... they complain about not having the same rights but want to add more privileges at the same time... so yes I can compare, as well as I can compare to gay or other minority groups that see the other side as enemies all the time.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

think-man said:
The image Nintendo consoles have does scream casual more so than the other 2 consoles on the market, not sure how to got to this stage but the Wii probably didn't help it's image ( In the hardcore sense).

Nintendo consoles have been the "uncool" console for a while now. We hear of the console wars but it's basically always been Sony vs MS with Nintendo fans waving their arms in the background wanting to join the war.

      Nintendo fans are not going to join the war if Nintendo doesn't do something to change the kiddy and casual image they  have. They have a lot of work to do.



                
       ---Member of the official Squeezol Fanclub---

AZWification said:
think-man said:
The image Nintendo consoles have does scream casual more so than the other 2 consoles on the market, not sure how to got to this stage but the Wii probably didn't help it's image ( In the hardcore sense).

Nintendo consoles have been the "uncool" console for a while now. We hear of the console wars but it's basically always been Sony vs MS with Nintendo fans waving their arms in the background wanting to join the war.

      Nintendo fans are not going to join the war if Nintendo doesn't do something to change the kiddy and casual image they  have. They have a lot of work to do.


Kids don't fight in war



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
AZWification said:
think-man said:
The image Nintendo consoles have does scream casual more so than the other 2 consoles on the market, not sure how to got to this stage but the Wii probably didn't help it's image ( In the hardcore sense).

Nintendo consoles have been the "uncool" console for a while now. We hear of the console wars but it's basically always been Sony vs MS with Nintendo fans waving their arms in the background wanting to join the war.

      Nintendo fans are not going to join the war if Nintendo doesn't do something to change the kiddy and casual image they  have. They have a lot of work to do.


Kids don't fight in war

      Lame joke that stopped being funny in 2004. Try  again.



                
       ---Member of the official Squeezol Fanclub---