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J_Allard said:
thismeintiel said:

Well, you would have an argument if what I said wasn't exactly what happened.  Both Nintendo and Xbox fans bickered and boasted about resolution when they though their consoles of choice could easily push.  now, it's "petty and pointless" because they can't.  At least not without gimping the graphics close to a last gen game.  And no one is saying 720p games are crap, but if you can have better graphics AND a higher resolution AND a higher framrate on a cheaper console (when compared to the Xbox One's cost) for the same game and/or exclusives, there's really no argument to be made.

And yet at the same time, what I said is also exactly what happened. Which was the morale of the story.  You can sit and say "well lulz ur just downplaying cuz ur console is weak" or whatever but that creates the equally valid point that you're only making it a big deal now because the disparity exists right now. It's known as the pot calling the kettle black. Or, you're throwing stones in your glass house. etc etc.

And please, "close to a last gen game"? No need for such hyperbole if you were actually making a valid point.

Or maybe you can tell me I am wrong and you actually did not own a PS2 or a PS3 or a GCN or a Wii or a Wii U? Or a PSone or etc etc? I guess it's only this gen that a slight graphics advantage on some games matters. Why? Because that advantage is for your toy of choice. Carry on preaching down to others for being part of that same charade though, toodles.

Just my opinion, but I don't think the differences are small this time around. Sure, Xbox was faster than PS2, but it didn't use a higher resolution (apart from some crazy exceptions). Now we're seeing a console that not only pushes twice as many pixels but does just that with higher detail, better framerate and whatnot. We didn't see such a disparity in a long while. Maybe PS1 vs N64 was such a case, but the N64 wasn't superior in every aspect (Cartridges!) which is the case with PS4 vs. Xbox One.

The hardware of the PS4 is just superior in EVERY aspect. And what do you know, that leads to better graphics. I still remember people talking about how multiplats will be the same anyway on both consoles because developers will just use the lowest common denominator and blah blah blah. Didn't happen. You want multi-plats, you play PS4. At least last gen I was told there's no way avoiding the 360 if you wanna play mulitplats, because they are THAT MUCH better and stuff. Like 720p vs. 640p at GTA 4. It was a big deal. I guess that is a greater difference than 1080p vs. 720p or something...

Don't get me wrong tough, I don't hate the Xbox or anything, but you can't deny that the arguments are quite funny right now. But to be fair, Sony Fans are also funn at times let alone Ninty Fans. Did you know that Nintendo Fans cared for graphics exacrly until the Wii was announced? What a coincidence...



Official member of VGC's Nintendo family, approved by the one and only RolStoppable. I feel honored.

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J_Allard said:
thismeintiel said:

Well, let's get serious about this issue, and truthful. The only ones downplaying 1080p are Nintendo fans and Xbox fans. Of course, before the release of their favored console, they were singing a different tune.

Before the Wii U released and we were speculating on the power, several Nintendo fans were saying the Wii U would be able to pull off PS3 visuals, but in 1080p. Well, after launch we realized it could handle PS3 graphics, but certainly not the best ones at 1080p. Now, 1080p doesn't matter.

 Before Xbox One was released, Xbox fans joined in in mocking the Wii U for not pulling off 1080p on most games. Even when we started getting rumors that games would have slightly gimped visuals + lower resolutions, many denied it, stating the One could definitely handle that kind of graphical output. Now the Xbox One is released and games aren't up to snuff with their PS4 counterparts, 1080p doesn't matter.

Of course, many also fall back on the "720p games are still fun" stance. While this is 100% true, we are in next gen, so 1080p should be the standard, not the exception. 720p was last gens standard, so I wish to greatly advance in what my console can pull off, not take a couple of steps forward. Besides, I want to use my 1080p tv to its fullest potential, while having loads of fun.

If we're simplifying it down like that, you could take it a step further and put an alternate spin on it and say the only ones making a big deal about it are Playstation fans who spent the last 3 generations downplaying graphics as they had the weakest console and/or inferior multiplatform ports.

Of course as everyone else said, we're gamers, so bickering about 720p vs 900p vs 1080p is petty and pointless when a gamer can go on a PC and play a game in 1440 resolution and even higher. I mean, if someone came into a PS4 BF4 or AC4 thread and was saying the games must be trash because they only run 1080p while his run at 4k, your response would be what? Oh man you're right, why am I even bothering playing this tripe? No, it would be something like uh... cool, doesn't make my game any worse, or something to that effect. That's what a gamer should say, right?

 

I doubt people cared while the PS1 or PS2 were dominating much more powerful machines that their toy had slightly worse graphics.


I'd like to see a market PC that can run Battlefield 4 at 4K resolution.



OdinHades said:

Just my opinion, but I don't think the differences are small this time around. Sure, Xbox was faster than PS2, but it didn't use a higher resolution (apart from some crazy exceptions). Now we're seeing a console that not only pushes twice as many pixels but does just that with higher detail, better framerate and whatnot. We didn't see such a disparity in a long while. Maybe PS1 vs N64 was such a case, but the N64 wasn't superior in every aspect (Cartridges!) which is the case with PS4 vs. Xbox One.

The hardware of the PS4 is just superior in EVERY aspect. And what do you know, that leads to better graphics. I still remember people talking about how multiplats will be the same anyway on both consoles because developers will just use the lowest common denominator and blah blah blah. Didn't happen. You want multi-plats, you play PS4. At least last gen I was told there's no way avoiding the 360 if you wanna play mulitplats, because they are THAT MUCH better and stuff. Like 720p vs. 640p at GTA 4. It was a big deal. I guess that is a greater difference than 1080p vs. 720p or something...

Don't get me wrong tough, I don't hate the Xbox or anything, but you can't deny that the arguments are quite funny right now. But to be fair, Sony Fans are also funn at times let alone Ninty Fans. Did you know that Nintendo Fans cared for graphics exacrly until the Wii was announced? What a coincidence...

And this is why I don't think 720p vs 1080p is a big deal (a welcome improvement nonetheless).  I've been around for a loooong time.  I've seen Nes vs Master system where the Nes was so weak that many games couldn't even handle two players.  I've seen Super Nes vs Genesis where Genesis games didn't even have animations in the background or voices.  Some Genesis fighting games didn't even have as many characters as their Super Nes counterparts.  Then again, the Genesis and its faster processor could run certain games that made the Super Nes flicker and slow down.  I've seen PS1 vs N64 where the PS1 games had much more music or CGI cutscenes while the N64 game had still pictures with subtitles.  I've seen Gamecube vs Xbox vs Playstation 2 where Gamecube games like SSX Tricky missed out on many of the bonus featurettes or a game like True Crime didn't have as many missions or sound track songs as the PS2/Xbox version (which is why I traded my Gamecube version for the PS2 version!).  Xbox games had to have levels redesigned and leave out features just to run on the Gamecube and PS2. Resident Evil 4 on PS2 left out a lot of graphical detail that the Gamecube version had.  There were even some minor examples in the PS3 vs Xbox 360 (and definitely the Wii) where one version had features that the other didn't (ie: pressure sensitive buttons in MGS HD).  Dead Rising on Wii was a totally different game than the Xbox game because the Wii just couldn't handle as many characters on screen.

Those, to me, were REAL differences!  Those things may very well be issues again as the Wii U struggles to have features found in Xbox 360/PS3 versions of games and the PS4 is obviously more powerful than Xbox One.  When/if the PS4 has games that have like more characters on screen or smoke comes from a pipe in the PS4 version and not on the Xbox One version--that's the kind of thing I look for.  I played Arkham Asylum on PS3 and Xbox 360 at the same time and (aside from exclusive DLC), the PS3 had things like smoke coming from pipes that the Xbox 360 version didn't.  It effected my buying decision.  I got Arkham Origins on Wii U and PS3 and it definitely looks noticeably sharper on PS3 plus it has online mode.  

THAT'S A BIG DEAL TO ME!  When it comes to me and my personal opinion, one version slightly sharper (1080p vs 720p) doesn't even register.  And that's the source of my entire argument in this thread.  Like I said before, I have a TV with a Wii U, PS3, Xbox 360, DirecTV, and PC connected to it.  Of course all of them are set for 1080p, even if the content is sub-1080p.  I want the best and, comparing PS4 to Xbox One, PS4 offers the better option.  I admit that.  It's just not that big of a deal FOR ME.

I'll have my PS4 when Tomb Raider releases.  See ya online.



Mr Puggsly said:

Quite honestly, I don't notice much of a difference between the 720p and 1080p. Most people don't even notice a difference unless you see both resolutions side by side.

I care more about frame rates. I'm disappointed we aren't seeing more games achieving 60 fps or maintaining it.


this!!!!! all this ''next gen'' talk and all the high level processors and we cant get 60fps. its such a joke. why would i ever desire 1080p with 30fps????



umegames said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Quite honestly, I don't notice much of a difference between the 720p and 1080p. Most people don't even notice a difference unless you see both resolutions side by side.

I care more about frame rates. I'm disappointed we aren't seeing more games achieving 60 fps or maintaining it.


this!!!!! all this ''next gen'' talk and all the high level processors and we cant get 60fps. its such a joke. why would i ever desire 1080p with 30fps????


You can do 1080p at 60fps on a PS3 or 360, if you dumb the games down enough.  I'm sure virtually every game currently available on Xbox 360 and PS3 could run in 1080p and 60fps on the PS4 and Xbox One.  The thing is, they aren't just content with resolution and frames per second.  They also want to push bigger environments, better AI (I hope), better graphical effects, more polygons on screen, multi-tasking, etc.  It seems that no matter how powerful the consoles become, they'll never be powerful enough.  As soon as we get hardware powerful enough to run current content capably, we get developers that want to raise the graphical bar.  The first thing that gets cut are the FPS or the resolution.



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J_Allard said:

And yet at the same time, what I said is also exactly what happened. Which was the morale of the story.  You can sit and say "well lulz ur just downplaying cuz ur console is weak" or whatever but that creates the equally valid point that you're only making it a big deal now because the disparity exists right now. It's known as the pot calling the kettle black. Or, you're throwing stones in your glass house. etc etc.

And please, "close to a last gen game"? No need for such hyperbole if you were actually making a valid point.

Or maybe you can tell me I am wrong and you actually did not own a PS2 or a PS3 or a GCN or a Wii or a Wii U? Or a PSone or etc etc? I guess it's only this gen that a slight graphics advantage on some games matters. Why? Because that advantage is for your toy of choice. Carry on preaching down to others for being part of that same charade though, toodles.

That's not his point at all. His point was that Xbox and Ninty fans did exactly the same things when they were in the same situation.



brendude13 said:
J_Allard said:

And yet at the same time, what I said is also exactly what happened. Which was the morale of the story.  You can sit and say "well lulz ur just downplaying cuz ur console is weak" or whatever but that creates the equally valid point that you're only making it a big deal now because the disparity exists right now. It's known as the pot calling the kettle black. Or, you're throwing stones in your glass house. etc etc.

And please, "close to a last gen game"? No need for such hyperbole if you were actually making a valid point.

Or maybe you can tell me I am wrong and you actually did not own a PS2 or a PS3 or a GCN or a Wii or a Wii U? Or a PSone or etc etc? I guess it's only this gen that a slight graphics advantage on some games matters. Why? Because that advantage is for your toy of choice. Carry on preaching down to others for being part of that same charade though, toodles.

That's not his point at all. His point was that Xbox and Ninty fans did exactly the same things when they were in the same situation.

I know that was his point. And my point is he is engaging in the exact same type of behavior, so why bother trying to call others out for it.





d21lewis said:

And this is why I don't think 720p vs 1080p is a big deal (a welcome improvement nonetheless).  I've been around for a loooong time.  I've seen Nes vs Master system where the Nes was so weak that many games couldn't even handle two players.  I've seen Super Nes vs Genesis where Genesis games didn't even have animations in the background or voices.  Some Genesis fighting games didn't even have as many characters as their Super Nes counterparts.  Then again, the Genesis and its faster processor could run certain games that made the Super Nes flicker and slow down.  I've seen PS1 vs N64 where the PS1 games had much more music or CGI cutscenes while the N64 game had still pictures with subtitles.  I've seen Gamecube vs Xbox vs Playstation 2 where Gamecube games like SSX Tricky missed out on many of the bonus featurettes or a game like True Crime didn't have as many missions or sound track songs as the PS2/Xbox version (which is why I traded my Gamecube version for the PS2 version!).  Xbox games had to have levels redesigned and leave out features just to run on the Gamecube and PS2. Resident Evil 4 on PS2 left out a lot of graphical detail that the Gamecube version had.  There were even some minor examples in the PS3 vs Xbox 360 (and definitely the Wii) where one version had features that the other didn't (ie: pressure sensitive buttons in MGS HD).  Dead Rising on Wii was a totally different game than the Xbox game because the Wii just couldn't handle as many characters on screen.

Those, to me, were REAL differences!  Those things may very well be issues again as the Wii U struggles to have features found in Xbox 360/PS3 versions of games and the PS4 is obviously more powerful than Xbox One.  When/if the PS4 has games that have like more characters on screen or smoke comes from a pipe in the PS4 version and not on the Xbox One version--that's the kind of thing I look for.  I played Arkham Asylum on PS3 and Xbox 360 at the same time and (aside from exclusive DLC), the PS3 had things like smoke coming from pipes that the Xbox 360 version didn't.  It effected my buying decision.  I got Arkham Origins on Wii U and PS3 and it definitely looks noticeably sharper on PS3 plus it has online mode.  

THAT'S A BIG DEAL TO ME!  When it comes to me and my personal opinion, one version slightly sharper (1080p vs 720p) doesn't even register.  And that's the source of my entire argument in this thread.  Like I said before, I have a TV with a Wii U, PS3, Xbox 360, DirecTV, and PC connected to it.  Of course all of them are set for 1080p, even if the content is sub-1080p.  I want the best and, comparing PS4 to Xbox One, PS4 offers the better option.  I admit that.  It's just not that big of a deal FOR ME.

I'll have my PS4 when Tomb Raider releases.  See ya online.

And here your arguments are getting silly.  Smoke coming out of pipes is a BIG DEAL to you?  Even if the games are around the same graphical quality?  Yet, pushing twice the pixels, with better AA (so incredibly less jaggies), at native 1080p isn't?  And if you actually went through the games together, you would probably find things that the One version is missing.  Been awhile since I read the DF analysis, so they may have pointed some of those out.

Let's be honest, again, here.  Consoles of the past have always been different architecturally, but have been pretty close when it came to graphical capability (many of your big deals involve format limitations, not what the system was capable of, though that is also important.)  They each had their positives and negatives when compared to their competition.  I'd say the biggest difference we've had in a gen was the PS2 vs Xbox.  Though, after playing Doom 3 (even on the PS3) those claims were a little overblown.

This gen, we have two systems that have the same x86 architecture, same CPU, and the same brand of GPUs (Radeon), so the comparisons between parts and their performance has never been easier.  And its the first time that a system seems to have NO negatives when compared to its closest competition.  The PS4 has faster RAM (more of which is available to devs), unified RAM, and a much beefier GPU.  So, once we get even more demaning games, you will start to see them scale back what they do on the Xbox One (maybe even cut back on smoke coming out of pipes ) to get the game running on it, while trying to push out the same polycount and texture quality as the PS4 counterpart.

A quick side note about some of your points in the first paragraph.  Not sure which Genesis fighting game had fewer characters than their SNES counterpart, since it was the SNES that had HW limitations concerning that type of thing.  At least, that was the excuse given when Final Fight for SNES was released with only 2 characters, instead of 3, and didn't have 2 player co-op.  May have just been a BS excuse.  I also wouldn't put too much into the difference's between the PS2 and GC RE4, as it was probably a quick port.  When the director says they will kill themselve if it comes out on anything but the Gamecube, something tells me they aren't going to pour their souls into a PS2 port.



J_Allard said:
brendude13 said:
J_Allard said:

And yet at the same time, what I said is also exactly what happened. Which was the morale of the story.  You can sit and say "well lulz ur just downplaying cuz ur console is weak" or whatever but that creates the equally valid point that you're only making it a big deal now because the disparity exists right now. It's known as the pot calling the kettle black. Or, you're throwing stones in your glass house. etc etc.

And please, "close to a last gen game"? No need for such hyperbole if you were actually making a valid point.

Or maybe you can tell me I am wrong and you actually did not own a PS2 or a PS3 or a GCN or a Wii or a Wii U? Or a PSone or etc etc? I guess it's only this gen that a slight graphics advantage on some games matters. Why? Because that advantage is for your toy of choice. Carry on preaching down to others for being part of that same charade though, toodles.

That's not his point at all. His point was that Xbox and Ninty fans did exactly the same things when they were in the same situation.

I know that was his point. And my point is he is engaging in the exact same type of behavior, so why bother trying to call others out for it.

Then he's not just calling others out for it, he's putting everyone in the same boat. I don't recall him saying Sony fans didn't do the same in the past.

As for him engaging in the same behaviour, that's your opinion. I think his stance on 720p vs 1080p has been reasonable, and pretty much in line with what everybody thought before all this next-gen cock waving began.



brendude13 said:

Then he's not just calling others out for it, he's putting everyone in the same boat. I don't recall him saying Sony fans didn't do the same in the past.

As for him engaging in the same behaviour, that's your opinion. I think his stance on 720p vs 1080p has been reasonable, and pretty much in line with what everybody thought before all this next-gen cock waving began.

You don't talk down to people if you're right there "in the same boat". And his reply about how what he said "actually happening" could easily be interpreted as what I said didn't actually happen. And really no point in continuing this exchange if you're going to say my comment about the behavior is opinion, LOL.