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Forums - PC Discussion - A PS4 equivalent rig for $500.00?

ListerOfSmeg said:
Irs actually going to be very easy to do this.
PS4 is made using chips for mobile devices such as tablets and phones. It is not an 8 core desktop PC.

You are asking the right question but in the completely wrong area of the internet. you will get a lot of uneducated responses from Sony fans who know nothing of tech or how it works. Some examples

"Impossible for now.

To match the PS4 power, which is an optimized console, you would need an even better configuration.

And has of now the same graphic card or SLI graphic cards with up to 8 GDDR5 memory would cost way way more than 500$"

This person doesn't know what they are talking about. They don't even know what system memory is, how it works, or that a current PC like mine can have 32gigs of RAM, not including the graphics card, that blows away the tiny 8gigs in PS4.

Another example of not knowing what they are talking about

"Not really. Matching the performance of launch games shouldn't cost too much over $400, but you're going to need to upgrade it very often to stay on pace with the PS4."

Now this one is really sad. This person is actually under the impression that while the tech in a PS4 and a PC are the same, one will improve over time, yet the other will stay stagnant.


For 500.00 I could build an 8core PC with 1TB HDD, 3 gig graphics card, 32gigs RAM, that the PS4 would never touch.

Lets not forget the facts of the matter. To run BF4 the most they ask for is a quad core PC. Now the PS4 version is inferior to the PC version yet its running on twice as many cores. Why? Because as stated those cores were designed for tablets, not desktops. 8gigs of RAM sounds good til you see that PCs are running on 4 times that.

I am sure there are others like me here that know enough to help you, but you are going to get a lot of misinformed information from people who don't know tech and only know what Sony said and believe anything they say.

Oh how ironic ... ROFLMAO.



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fatslob-:O said:
ListerOfSmeg said:
Irs actually going to be very easy to do this.
PS4 is made using chips for mobile devices such as tablets and phones. It is not an 8 core desktop PC.

You are asking the right question but in the completely wrong area of the internet. you will get a lot of uneducated responses from Sony fans who know nothing of tech or how it works. Some examples

"Impossible for now.

To match the PS4 power, which is an optimized console, you would need an even better configuration.

And has of now the same graphic card or SLI graphic cards with up to 8 GDDR5 memory would cost way way more than 500$"

This person doesn't know what they are talking about. They don't even know what system memory is, how it works, or that a current PC like mine can have 32gigs of RAM, not including the graphics card, that blows away the tiny 8gigs in PS4.

Another example of not knowing what they are talking about

"Not really. Matching the performance of launch games shouldn't cost too much over $400, but you're going to need to upgrade it very often to stay on pace with the PS4."

Now this one is really sad. This person is actually under the impression that while the tech in a PS4 and a PC are the same, one will improve over time, yet the other will stay stagnant.


For 500.00 I could build an 8core PC with 1TB HDD, 3 gig graphics card, 32gigs RAM, that the PS4 would never touch.

Lets not forget the facts of the matter. To run BF4 the most they ask for is a quad core PC. Now the PS4 version is inferior to the PC version yet its running on twice as many cores. Why? Because as stated those cores were designed for tablets, not desktops. 8gigs of RAM sounds good til you see that PCs are running on 4 times that.

I am sure there are others like me here that know enough to help you, but you are going to get a lot of misinformed information from people who don't know tech and only know what Sony said and believe anything they say.

Oh how ironic ... ROFLMAO.

I like this bit, send me the links so I can build me that rig. 

 

He wont reply to me though :( because I always win arguements with him ;P



Checkout this for compasions

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHogNolObqk



think-man said:
fatslob-:O said:
ListerOfSmeg said:
Irs actually going to be very easy to do this.
PS4 is made using chips for mobile devices such as tablets and phones. It is not an 8 core desktop PC.

You are asking the right question but in the completely wrong area of the internet. you will get a lot of uneducated responses from Sony fans who know nothing of tech or how it works. Some examples

"Impossible for now.

To match the PS4 power, which is an optimized console, you would need an even better configuration.

And has of now the same graphic card or SLI graphic cards with up to 8 GDDR5 memory would cost way way more than 500$"

This person doesn't know what they are talking about. They don't even know what system memory is, how it works, or that a current PC like mine can have 32gigs of RAM, not including the graphics card, that blows away the tiny 8gigs in PS4.

Another example of not knowing what they are talking about

"Not really. Matching the performance of launch games shouldn't cost too much over $400, but you're going to need to upgrade it very often to stay on pace with the PS4."

Now this one is really sad. This person is actually under the impression that while the tech in a PS4 and a PC are the same, one will improve over time, yet the other will stay stagnant.


For 500.00 I could build an 8core PC with 1TB HDD, 3 gig graphics card, 32gigs RAM, that the PS4 would never touch.

Lets not forget the facts of the matter. To run BF4 the most they ask for is a quad core PC. Now the PS4 version is inferior to the PC version yet its running on twice as many cores. Why? Because as stated those cores were designed for tablets, not desktops. 8gigs of RAM sounds good til you see that PCs are running on 4 times that.

I am sure there are others like me here that know enough to help you, but you are going to get a lot of misinformed information from people who don't know tech and only know what Sony said and believe anything they say.

Oh how ironic ... ROFLMAO.

I like this bit, send me the links so I can build me that rig. 

 

He wont reply to me though :( because I always win arguements with him ;P

Ones who vouch for a loser is always the loser.



Because I said I was going to, attached below is a datasheet for GDDR5 from Hynix

http://www.hynix.com/datasheet/pdf/graphics/H5GQ1H24AFR(Rev1.0).pdf

Page 43 gives the CAS timings for GDDR5 at various speeds. At 5.5 GT/s its CAS setting is 16, which at 1.375 GHz command clock rate gives a ns latency of 11.6ns.

From the teardown by iFixIt, the Xbox One has 8GB of H5TQ4G63AFR DDR3-2166. From the H5TQ4G63AFR datasheet (http://www.skhynix.com/inc/pdfDownload.jsp?path=/datasheet/pdf/dram/Computing_DDR3_H5TQ4G4(8_6)3AFR(Rev1.0).pdf), at 2166MT/s (1066.67 GHz command clock) its CAS setting is 14, which gives a ns latency of 13.1ns, slightly higher than the PS4.

For the usual DDR3-1600 that most PC's ship with, the average CAS timings is between 7-9, which at 800 MHz command clock gives a ns latency of 8.75 - 11.25ns, slightly better to on par with GDDR5 (so I was wrong about GDDR5 being less latency). But the difference isn't as large as some people make it out to be, and in the case of the Xbox One (which isn't part of this discussion I know but for completeness sake), GDDR5 in the PS4 actually has lower latency than the DDR3 in the Xbox One (obviously the ESRAM mitigates this to a degree).



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If we're talking about equivalent, you have to take the form factor into account. So good luck trying to build a PC in that small size with built-in blu-ray, wi-fi and Bluetooth. It's simply not possible at that price.

Simply matching the specs should be somewhat possible, if you take your time and aim for used parts. But you still won't get the same graphics. I mean, it is possible to optimize PC hardware the same way that console hardware is optimized, but no developer will ever do that. They will always aim for the lowest common denominator.

It's quite simple if you look at the old consoles. Build a PC with 256 MB RAM and a Geforce 7800 GTX graphics card. Then try to run Assassin's Creed 4, CoD: Ghosts, Battlefield 4, Crysis 3 or whatever with that. Good luck.

PCs will always have the upper hand when it comes to graphics. And while it is true that in the past consoles were faster for some months, the new generation isn't really underpowered. But at the same price, consoles will always have the upper hand when it comes to hardware or graphical fidelity.

My advice: Don't think about the specs too much. Get yourself a nice PC and just upgrade that sucker every year or every other year. It's the only option to stay up to date on PC. You can't just buy a cheap system and roll with it for 5+ years. It just doesn't work like that on PC.



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czecherychestnut said:
Because I said I was going to, attached below is a datasheet for GDDR5 from Hynix

http://www.hynix.com/datasheet/pdf/graphics/H5GQ1H24AFR(Rev1.0).pdf

Page 43 gives the CAS timings for GDDR5 at various speeds. At 5.5 GT/s its CAS setting is 16, which at 1.375 GHz command clock rate gives a ns latency of 11.6ns.

From the teardown by iFixIt, the Xbox One has 8GB of H5TQ4G63AFR DDR3-2166. From the H5TQ4G63AFR datasheet (http://www.skhynix.com/inc/pdfDownload.jsp?path=/datasheet/pdf/dram/Computing_DDR3_H5TQ4G4(8_6)3AFR(Rev1.0).pdf), at 2166MT/s (1066.67 GHz command clock) its CAS setting is 14, which gives a ns latency of 13.1ns, slightly higher than the PS4.

For the usual DDR3-1600 that most PC's ship with, the average CAS timings is between 7-9, which at 800 MHz command clock gives a ns latency of 8.75 - 11.25ns, slightly better to on par with GDDR5 (so I was wrong about GDDR5 being less latency). But the difference isn't as large as some people make it out to be, and in the case of the Xbox One (which isn't part of this discussion I know but for completeness sake), GDDR5 in the PS4 actually has lower latency than the DDR3 in the Xbox One (obviously the ESRAM mitigates this to a degree).


Wooh. One of those moments I don't mind being wrong. :)

However, we also have no idea what effect the eSRAM has on latency either (As you stated), it's a chunk of memory with lots of bandwidth and potentially lower latency due to it being farther along in the memory chain to the various processors.

Plus, Microsoft and Sony could have altered the timings too, for various reasons like using a simpler memory controller to free up transisters. (Easier to have looser timings rather than tight ones.)
Basically the whitepapers state a timing as recommended, but memory manufacturers and device manufacturers are free to alter that. (And happens often in the electronics world.)
We need proper device breakdowns at the BIOS and OS Kernel levels to find out for sure.

OdinHades said:
IIt's quite simple if you look at the old consoles. Build a PC with 256 MB RAM and a Geforce 7800 GTX graphics card. Then try to run Assassin's Creed 4, CoD: Ghosts, Battlefield 4, Crysis 3 or whatever with that. Good luck.

Pfft. Get a console with 256Mb of Ram full stop. OH WAIT None were ever made.

Or get a console with 32Gb of Ram. - Probably be waiting at-least a decade for that.
Half the multiplatform Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 games can run and look better on the PC with inferior specifications.
The other half are badly optimised, have better graphics by default.

I was playing "Next gen" launch games better than the Playstation 4 a few years before the console even launched.
Take Battlefield 3 for instance, that was almost an entirely different game (In a good way too.) - Graphics were much much much better, you had twice the amount of players, maps were vastly larger.
The PS4 basically caught up to the PC with Battlefield 4 but it still fell short at 900P and only high equivalent settings.

As for Form factor. You have ITX and they aren't terribly expensie anymore.

As for the hardware, upgrading every year for only 1920x1080 resolution is a waste of money, I know a few gamers still perfectly happy running games at 1080P with allot of the graphics effects turned on with a 4 year old Radeon 5870.
Not to mention the multitude of gamers running with 6 year old Core 2 Quads. (Albeit overclocked.)
If you had to upgrade every year, wouldn't you think they would have done so?

So please stop with your silly scare tactics about needing to upgrade a PC every year, that hasn't been required for a long time, unless you run Eyefinity, 1440P or 1600P, which none of the consoles can handle games at anyway.

And I type this from a crappy Core 2 PC that's about 6-7 years old, wan't me to run Crysis 3?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

I guess with the best US prices, and waiting for after Xmas sales, and sticking to a normal mid-tower case, it could be possible, but I'll wait longer to build my next PC, because surely in EU, outside of UK and Germany, that offer very cheap prices, we won't be able to find component prices low enough before Easter. BTW, building a PC with roughly the same specs will be easy, but to offer the same performances a PC will need higher specs a few more tens MHz for CPU and GPU and a lot more RAM, due to non streamlined, general-purpose OS, not optimized for a unique HW config.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


ListerOfSmeg said:
Irs actually going to be very easy to do this.
PS4 is made using chips for mobile devices such as tablets and phones. It is not an 8 core desktop PC.

You are asking the right question but in the completely wrong area of the internet. you will get a lot of uneducated responses from Sony fans who know nothing of tech or how it works. Some examples

"Impossible for now.

To match the PS4 power, which is an optimized console, you would need an even better configuration.

And has of now the same graphic card or SLI graphic cards with up to 8 GDDR5 memory would cost way way more than 500$"

This person doesn't know what they are talking about. They don't even know what system memory is, how it works, or that a current PC like mine can have 32gigs of RAM, not including the graphics card, that blows away the tiny 8gigs in PS4.

Another example of not knowing what they are talking about

"Not really. Matching the performance of launch games shouldn't cost too much over $400, but you're going to need to upgrade it very often to stay on pace with the PS4."

Now this one is really sad. This person is actually under the impression that while the tech in a PS4 and a PC are the same, one will improve over time, yet the other will stay stagnant.


For 500.00 I could build an 8core PC with 1TB HDD, 3 gig graphics card, 32gigs RAM, that the PS4 would never touch.

Lets not forget the facts of the matter. To run BF4 the most they ask for is a quad core PC. Now the PS4 version is inferior to the PC version yet its running on twice as many cores. Why? Because as stated those cores were designed for tablets, not desktops. 8gigs of RAM sounds good til you see that PCs are running on 4 times that.

I am sure there are others like me here that know enough to help you, but you are going to get a lot of misinformed information from people who don't know tech and only know what Sony said and believe anything they say.

Post the build; I'll build one.

Otherwise I'm going to have to call BS.



FYI: 32 GB of system RAM will have zero bearing on gaming performance.

It is on the other hand, fantastic for running multiple production apps, rendering video, editing and compositing massive image files, pre--rendering CG output among other things. None of which would improve video game performance. No game engines utilize that much system memory.

For gaming, I'd buy a VGA card with 4GB of DDR5 VRAM (very pricey) before buying 32GB of DDR3 system RAM (comparatively cheap) on every single gaming PC configuration I could come up with.