Last time I checked, blu ray doesn't have the ability to spy on me or make me jump around like an idiot in front of my television. It's just a disk drive that has a higher capacity and higher res than a DVD. It wasn't forcing anyone to do anything so no, it's not the same thing at all.

lol you think blu ray drive costs $200?

Without Bluray you couldn't play any PS3 games. It was central to doing what the device was designed to do: Play games.

Everyone knows (or should) about pushing Bluray to win the format war with HD DVD. 

Can I play games without Kinect? Yes. It is not central to the device, it is an add-on much like the Wii U tablet.

Fascinating how your brain works.

How do you explain multiplats on Xbox 360 and PS3 similar on every aspect?

#1 Yes, solely a graphics card update. Guess Twitch/UStream streaming, instant sharing, remote play, FREE games, playroom, indie support, and more just don't exist. Nope. PS4 is just a PS3 with better graphics. Or, you believe that all of those things < "Xbox, watch ESPN"

#2 By international market, do you mean everywhere else not America? And of course it got cheaper, video game consoles do that. Unless only the PS3 did it and the 360 didn't?? But if all it took was a simple price cut to catch up and pass the 360, that would imply that PS3 > 360 from the jump, and people were just waiting til they could afford it. The 360 is still cheaper than the PS3, so why has it been selling less for several years? Blu ray, features, the game library, perhaps?

#3 There are $40 BD players now. Don't forget how much they cost initially *cough*$1200*cough*. For several years, the PS3 was the cheapest blu ray player, so to coincide with point #2, don't say that people didn't buy the PS3 for BD. They very much so did

#4 Kinda agree, kinda disagree. Price and the XBone being pretty negative since E3 does play a role, and launch games are pretty on par with each other. But instant game collection, indie titles, the upcoming library, etc are factors as well. Say they released a Kinect-less XBone for $400. I still don't think it'd sell as much as PS4

#5 Don't really have an opinion on this, but speaking anectdotally, a friend of mine and his GF (well, fiance now) aren't "gamers" per se, but they gets the big release stuff. He gets Madden and loves Elder Scrolls games and she loves GTA to just go around and kill stuff. She got him the Kinect because "OMG motion control" that hoopla that Microsoft started. They got Kung Fu High Impact and Kinect Star Wars and always talked about how awesome those games are (so don't say "those are critically panned games. You can't just use bad games"). So, with regard to the topic, I wouldn't say casuals dislike Kinect. I will, however, say that he hasn't touched the thing since then. People like the Kinect like they liked the Wii. They got caught in the craze of motion control and bought it in droves, had a fun romp.....and then got bored. That's why Kinect and Wii software sales are so abysmal. They don't dislike the concept, they just get tired of it quickly. But this is all anectdotal, though.

Not sure what you meant buy that statement...on PS3 he/she is right you could not play any of the games without Bluray that is infact true seeing as all of the games were made on bluray discs....Missed the rest of the conversation though so can't say anything about the rest lol.

Ps3 wasnt expensive due yo Blu ray it was expensive due to B/C of ps2 plus cell processor .... with blu ray it would have been just 350 $ - 400 $ range... Plus Blu Ray wasnt forced they choose this as a medium for Ps3 while on  XB  they had Kinect on 360 as external device then made it compulsry on XBone 

It has come out that Microsoft demanded parity on 360 with games coming out on competing consoles (read: PS3). Whether that means that the on disc content had to be identical or the performance had to be identical is up for discussion. But it is known that parity of some sort was demanded, or the game couldn't be released on 360.

With that lingering in the back of your head, that may be a possible reason why multiplats were similar. But when you look exclusives vs exclusives, the differences between PS3 and 360 are obvious.

Why would anyone settle for less? That's exactly my arguement for PS3. From day 1 Sony has specific standard for PS3 game, one being a large disk medium to play HD cinematics, and have HD in games (most 360 games play sub 720p and are upscaled, where most PS3 games are natively 720p).

To remove Blu-Ray would significantly downgrade the graphical power of the PS3. In your Ferrari example, you'd be downgrading the engine.

However for XBO you're forcing a package deal. Not only is the main demograph for XBO owners not families, but 18-32 year old men, but Kinect does not improve the functionality of games out. So what you're doing is forcing people to buy a family package, then the main audience isn't families

To remove Kinect would not affect gameplay, only change the User Interface. In your Ferrari example, you'd not be buying matching baby seats and a GPS screen, features not everyone wants.

As for settling for less, if the demograph is families, WiiU is a better system. Cheaper =/= inferior. What the XBO is, is a middle ground, half for the core male audience, half for families, but it's a no compromise deal. You have to buy the system in the exact way MS uses it, even if you don't want to use it this way.

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Think about it this way. Sony can't sell a PS3 without a Blu-Ray drive because all PS3 games are on Blu-Ray disks, and this would make the system unplayable. Sacrifices would have to be made to make it workd. MS could sell an XBO without Kinect, and all it would do is resrict you from gameplay options in a hadful of games that don't release. With or without Kinect, you can still navigate the UI, still play Call of Duty, and still do a lot of things. So by forcing people to buy a console with Kinect, MS is forcing us to buy a product which isn't required to play the vast majority of XBO games, and they are forcing us to buy a feature many of us don't want. No sacrifices need to be made with XBO.

As for Kinect being unfavorable, if Kinect were truely a feature gamers wanted, then XBO would be outselling PS4. Being cheaper has nothing to do with your arguement because if price were the biggest reason why PS4 is outselling XBO, then that justifies a cheaper Kinect free model. If price is the biggest factor, then the gamers want a cheaper XBO, which means that you agree with me that gamers don't want Kinect. Clearly casual gamers don't care for Kinect, otherwise they would pay the prenium and XBO would be outselling PS4, but it's not.

Yes. Because Bluray was not an intrusive piece of unnecessary external hardware.