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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Windows Phone Marketshare grows in almost every country

wow some countries WP8 is even higher than iOS



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disolitude said:
freedquaker said:

 


I disagree with most of your post but unlike most people here I want to have a civil discussion...

The thing is Microsoft isn't living in dream land when it comes to Windows Phone marketshare. They understand the market and know they won't demand massive marketshare numbers in the near future. Infact, they predict to have 15% marketshare by 2018. That is certanly doable.

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-gets-less-than-10-per-windows-phone-unit-7000020153/

 

MS also no longer wants to sell the WP OS to anyone. They instead want to sell the ecosystem and services and it is becoming increasingly difficult to do this, even for Google with 80% marketshare. Samsung is cooking their own Android as is HTC and rest. iOS has the most sound ecosystem and Apple revenues show this hand over fist. Google has yet to prove that they can make money using Android and its "everything is free" model without advertising revenue.

Finally, one of the reasons for Nokia/MS merger is increased profitability on each device sold. As it stands, MS has to give Nokia a cash incentive and sells the OS license at a discounted rate. They make less than $10 per device sold.  After the merger they are expecting $40 per device.

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-gets-less-than-10-per-windows-phone-unit-7000020153/

"Redmond also believes that taking over Nokia's devices and services unit will provide "entry in to key growth markets."

Microsoft says that the current partnership between itself and Nokia means that for every Windows Phone sold, the gross profit margin is under $10 per unit based on royalty payments. Through the Nokia unit acquisition, Microsoft believes this will increase to $40 -- potentially making the risky deal a profitable force in the future. "


I wonder what exactly you disagree with?


It's an undeniable fact that Windows Phone Share has increased; however,

* Most of those increases do not happen due to "Windows" but rather "Nokia". People are simply going for a better alternative than Android if they cannot afford (an unsubsidized) Iphone or simply prefer Nokia.

=> This is a well known fact. Especially in Europe, where Nokia has always been popular, and this is where we see the surge in Nokia (winphone, ahem) sales. I have not seen one single person who bought a Nokia because of Windows Phone in my trips to Europe. Of course, there are, but absolutely a minority. Most people I know didn't even know the existence of a Windows Phone OS, but bought the phone simply they couldn't afford an iphone, or didn't want to get an Android.

* Nokia is still FAR from recouping its lost market share, and those gains are small in comparison.

=> This is not even up for debate, but obvious.

* A good deal of those gains are about collecting the leftovers after the dismal ends of Blackberry and the former Nokia.

=> Also obvious, because Android is increasing its market share at 80% and Iphones are still selling more though with a lower share because of rapidly expanding market. But yes, only in Europe, iphone lost some ground to NOKIA due to Lumias, and the highly expensive Iphones.

* Android, the biggest competition, is still gaining ground, with shares up to 80% globally, also increasing pretty much everywhere.

=> Nothing to debate about, simple fact.

* There is not much room left to grow other than gaining ground at the cost of Apple & Google, which will get harder and harder.

=> Also true, because Android is getting even stronger, and Apple seems untouchable by MS in 3 largest markets US, China, Japan.

* Windows Phone is a distant third in the largest and most significant markets. 4.8% in US, virtually non-existing in China and Japan.

=> Fact.

* MS wants to be a global player by selling its OS to everyone, but so far, 3/4 of its sales come from Nokia, which MS owns! This defeats the purpose, as its hardly profitable from MS point of view.

=> MS always sold its OS to everyone who wants, and still does it. There is not one single category that MS doesn't sell or want to sell its OS. They did it with Windows RT, and still do it with Win Phone. Claiming otherwise is all about being completely blind to Microsoft History and Policies. They bought Nokia, because they wanted to create "enough momentum" for the emergence of a strong ecosystem and market share, which will then trigger other manufacturers to show bigger interest in Windows Phone.

 

MS is fundamentally wrong on their policy. Because noone will wholeheartedly ever pick the windows Phone OS. Not because it is a bad OS, but because of a variety of other reasons. MS charges for it, to begin with. Windows is the only non-free OS on Earth in the consumer space, which adds up to the cost. Without the well established ecosystem and customer base, as well as more appealing feature-set, it is obliged to trail way behind the android. And the reason it may catch up to Apple is because Apple may let it, just to preserve high profit margins.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

Wow, good for Windows Phone. Still surprised to see it more popular in the EU than in the US - by more than double. iphone is still really common here in the USA. People just are stuck on them - crushed Blackberry's chances for a comeback.

That had some great Black Friday Windows Phone sales. I thought about getting one, even-though my Nokia 820 is working fine.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

freedquaker said:

 


I wonder what exactly you disagree with?


It's an undeniable fact that Windows Phone Share has increased; however,

* Most of those increases do not happen due to "Windows" but rather "Nokia". People are simply going for a better alternative than Android if they cannot afford (an unsubsidized) Iphone or simply prefer Nokia.

=> This is a well known fact. Especially in Europe, where Nokia has always been popular, and this is where we see the surge in Nokia (winphone, ahem) sales. I have not seen one single person who bought a Nokia because of Windows Phone in my trips to Europe. Of course, there are, but absolutely a minority. Most people I know didn't even know the existence of a Windows Phone OS, but bought the phone simply they couldn't afford an iphone, or didn't want to get an Android.

* Nokia is still FAR from recouping its lost market share, and those gains are small in comparison.

=> This is not even up for debate, but obvious.

* A good deal of those gains are about collecting the leftovers after the dismal ends of Blackberry and the former Nokia.

=> Also obvious, because Android is increasing its market share at 80% and Iphones are still selling more though with a lower share because of rapidly expanding market. But yes, only in Europe, iphone lost some ground to NOKIA due to Lumias, and the highly expensive Iphones.

* Android, the biggest competition, is still gaining ground, with shares up to 80% globally, also increasing pretty much everywhere.

=> Nothing to debate about, simple fact.

* There is not much room left to grow other than gaining ground at the cost of Apple & Google, which will get harder and harder.

=> Also true, because Android is getting even stronger, and Apple seems untouchable by MS in 3 largest markets US, China, Japan.

* Windows Phone is a distant third in the largest and most significant markets. 4.8% in US, virtually non-existing in China and Japan.

=> Fact.

* MS wants to be a global player by selling its OS to everyone, but so far, 3/4 of its sales come from Nokia, which MS owns! This defeats the purpose, as its hardly profitable from MS point of view.

=> MS always sold its OS to everyone who wants, and still does it. There is not one single category that MS doesn't sell or want to sell its OS. They did it with Windows RT, and still do it with Win Phone. Claiming otherwise is all about being completely blind to Microsoft History and Policies. They bought Nokia, because they wanted to create "enough momentum" for the emergence of a strong ecosystem and market share, which will then trigger other manufacturers to show bigger interest in Windows Phone.

 

MS is fundamentally wrong on their policy. Because noone will wholeheartedly ever pick the windows Phone OS. Not because it is a bad OS, but because of a variety of other reasons. MS charges for it, to begin with. Windows is the only non-free OS on Earth in the consumer space, which adds up to the cost. Without the well established ecosystem and customer base, as well as more appealing feature-set, it is obliged to trail way behind the android. And the reason it may catch up to Apple is because Apple may let it, just to preserve high profit margins.

I don't disagree with your entire post but have counter arguments to some of your points.

- Most of increases come from the fact that Microsoft finally has a variety of devices at different price levels and distribution to sell them to consumers, largely but not solely thanks to Nokia. I wouldn't discredit Windows ecosystem and give all the credit to Nokia here. There are design and ecosystem similarities between Windows desktop, tablet and phone (Xbox too) which may contribute to marketshare increases. 

- Nokia marketshare in the past is completely irrelevant as the company couldn't sustain itself in the changing smartphone market. They spent 10 billion dollars in R&D in 2010 to sell 20 million smartphones per quarter. They will be selling 10 million smartphones and even more per quarter very soon and have spend 2.5 billion in R&D in 2013. Their feature phone sales took a massive hit which is why the company was having issues for the last few quarters.

- MS will gladly sell their OS to anyone that still wants to license it but they are fully aware they cannot compete with this business model in the mobile sector. Instead at this point it looks like they believe that by having full control of an OEM, they are able to quadruple the profit and revenue while not give up complete control of their mobile ecosystem and user experience. Only time will tell if they are right, but looking at the WP market uptrend, it looks like they are on the right track.



Before I start, first off, I like Windows 8 as a concept, but hate it's execution. I also hate the design of iOS 7 and the blind application of flat design.

 

I think Windows Phone's UI is just fucking terrible:

 

This guy explains it way better than I can:

Yes, I have. In fact, I did graphic design for Nokia until very recently.

The problem with WP is that visual consistency doesn't equal good usability. Usability should always trump visuals in the pecking order. Yes, WP looks consistent, but the design language and UX are riddled with flaws. I'm going to list a few.

First and foremost: there's no branching of users. Whether you're a power user, a 90-year-old granny, a toddler or a Brooklyn hipster, you get the same UX. For proper usability, the UI should bend to the needs of all user groups regardless of their skill level. If you want to implement a one-size-fits-all solution, usability is critical. WP, however, skimps on usability to maintain visual consistency, and doing that while trying to implement an OSFA solution means the result is confusing for the toddler and frustrating for the power user.

Secondly: the most used functions should be always accessible, period. When a user picks up a phone with a specific task in mind, his path to complete that task should be as optimized as possible. That's why iOS has a quick access dock as well as most Android phones. WP, again, does not to keep a consistent look. You do get live tiles, but no dock, which means that if you're using more than a handful of your phone's functions you need to scroll down, making completing critical tasks slower.

Thirdly (and this is my favorite pet peeve): the WP design language is directly opposite to Gestalt rules. The UI should use color, weight and visual cues to guide the eye and to assert a visual hierarchy. You need to be able to form an overview and the location of the most critical functions of the phone with a quick glance. This is usually done using color, continuity, contrast, focal points etc. WP disregards all of this. If you look at the live tiles, there are useless animations, complete disregard of visual cues and the focal points are all over the place. Why is the Red Bull app colored, thus stealing my attention, while the more important phone and message icons are not? Why is the Xbox Live tile green by default, making it the only one to stand out? Is the UI suggesting it's really the most vital app of my phone? Why are the tiles moving without input, making it exceptionally difficult to form an overview of what I'm seeing? Why are my eyes being constantly guided to non-essential parts of the UI? Thanks to these things, the UI is crowded and it's difficult to form a visual hierarchy of what I'm seeing. In most cases there's also no distinction between call to action elements and plain text, making guiding the user through visual cues difficult.

Fourthly: no folders. Only an alphabetical app list. For example, if you need to access multiple apps you often use together quickly, you can't have them sitting next to each other on a folder. You're forced to scroll up and down the list every time. Instead of having connected apps next to each other, you're forced to make the connections in your head, which is cumbersome and needlessly taxing, once again all because of consistency.

I'm going to save you some time and stop here. I'd have material for an average length thesis on exactly why the WP design is woefully inadequate and why it is clashing against hundreds of years of visual design theory, but let's save some time and just say it sucks with the force of a thousand suns.



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Akvod said:

 

Secondly: the most used functions should be always accessible, period. When a user picks up a phone with a specific task in mind, his path to complete that task should be as optimized as possible.


You pin what you use most often to the start screen.
You can also customise the tiles size and colour.
You can even apply a picture across all your tiles.
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/tiler/a28a37f8-48a5-429c-b8e7-fd04e1ccf5da

If you have tons of apps, just flick the screen to the left, click a letter and find what you want.
It's easy and accessible.
My grandmother finds it easier to use than iOS and Android, Personally I am probably classed as a "Power user" and have no drama's.

Akvod said:

 

Fourthly: no folders. Only an alphabetical app list. For example, if you need to access multiple apps you often use together quickly, you can't have them sitting next to each other on a folder. You're forced to scroll up and down the list every time. Instead of having connected apps next to each other, you're forced to make the connections in your head, which is cumbersome and needlessly taxing, once again all because of consistency.


Well. You have "App folders" - Pin that to your start screen and throw all your most used apps into it.
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/app-folder/1a248adb-1429-45ea-a507-f3d5f4cad58c


I love the UI, it works fantastic on a phone. I'm not a fan of it however on Desktops and Laptops and it's "alright" on a tablet.
The OS isn't going to be for everyone though, the more hard core enthusiasts should stick to Android.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Akvod said:

Before I start, first off, I like Windows 8 as a concept, but hate it's execution. I also hate the design of iOS 7 and the blind application of flat design.

 

I think Windows Phone's UI is just fucking terrible:

 

This guy explains it way better than I can:

Yes, I have. In fact, I did graphic design for Nokia until very recently.

The problem with WP is that visual consistency doesn't equal good usability. Usability should always trump visuals in the pecking order. Yes, WP looks consistent, but the design language and UX are riddled with flaws. I'm going to list a few.

First and foremost: there's no branching of users. Whether you're a power user, a 90-year-old granny, a toddler or a Brooklyn hipster, you get the same UX. For proper usability, the UI should bend to the needs of all user groups regardless of their skill level. If you want to implement a one-size-fits-all solution, usability is critical. WP, however, skimps on usability to maintain visual consistency, and doing that while trying to implement an OSFA solution means the result is confusing for the toddler and frustrating for the power user.

Secondly: the most used functions should be always accessible, period. When a user picks up a phone with a specific task in mind, his path to complete that task should be as optimized as possible. That's why iOS has a quick access dock as well as most Android phones. WP, again, does not to keep a consistent look. You do get live tiles, but no dock, which means that if you're using more than a handful of your phone's functions you need to scroll down, making completing critical tasks slower.

Thirdly (and this is my favorite pet peeve): the WP design language is directly opposite to Gestalt rules. The UI should use color, weight and visual cues to guide the eye and to assert a visual hierarchy. You need to be able to form an overview and the location of the most critical functions of the phone with a quick glance. This is usually done using color, continuity, contrast, focal points etc. WP disregards all of this. If you look at the live tiles, there are useless animations, complete disregard of visual cues and the focal points are all over the place. Why is the Red Bull app colored, thus stealing my attention, while the more important phone and message icons are not? Why is the Xbox Live tile green by default, making it the only one to stand out? Is the UI suggesting it's really the most vital app of my phone? Why are the tiles moving without input, making it exceptionally difficult to form an overview of what I'm seeing? Why are my eyes being constantly guided to non-essential parts of the UI? Thanks to these things, the UI is crowded and it's difficult to form a visual hierarchy of what I'm seeing. In most cases there's also no distinction between call to action elements and plain text, making guiding the user through visual cues difficult.

Fourthly: no folders. Only an alphabetical app list. For example, if you need to access multiple apps you often use together quickly, you can't have them sitting next to each other on a folder. You're forced to scroll up and down the list every time. Instead of having connected apps next to each other, you're forced to make the connections in your head, which is cumbersome and needlessly taxing, once again all because of consistency.

I'm going to save you some time and stop here. I'd have material for an average length thesis on exactly why the WP design is woefully inadequate and why it is clashing against hundreds of years of visual design theory, but let's save some time and just say it sucks with the force of a thousand suns.



Exactly.



Pemalite said:
Akvod said:

 

Secondly: the most used functions should be always accessible, period. When a user picks up a phone with a specific task in mind, his path to complete that task should be as optimized as possible.


You pin what you use most often to the start screen.
You can also customise the tiles size and colour.
You can even apply a picture across all your tiles.
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/tiler/a28a37f8-48a5-429c-b8e7-fd04e1ccf5da

If you have tons of apps, just flick the screen to the left, click a letter and find what you want.
It's easy and accessible.
My grandmother finds it easier to use than iOS and Android, Personally I am probably classed as a "Power user" and have no drama's.

 

But the point of the docks with iOS and Android is that they stay with you no matter how much you scroll horizontally (or vertically in WP's case).

Another gripe I have is that whereas with the iOS you swipe through fixed pages of apps, you progressively scroll seamlessly through WP. Now, seamless sounds like a really nice word, but it sucks because it makes it hard to orient yourself and everything is always in a different position. 

It's also just not the tile size and color. It's the fucking little things like how close everything is, the flat design that makes it hard to instantly distinguish one app from another (and ew, that fucking photo background thing).

 

The thing about UI's is that it shouldn't be about how much of a "Power" user you are. UI's are supposed to be as unconscious as possible. They're not supposed to fucking be at the forefront of your attention (now that I think about it, that might be one of the fundamental reason why iOS is so bad. It was created and designed to BE at the center of attention. To be eye catching.) UI's are supposed to naturally guide a person and assist them do what they want. A UI's a fucking failure if your grandma can't use it. If a cat can use your iOS, it's a success.

The search thing is fucking stupid. The 80/20 rule. 80% of things you do are done with 20% of things. That's why you have top menus with the most used functions. That's why the Start Menu had your most used apps instantly there in a small isolated group, rather than in a sea of similar looking icons.

I guess my biggest fucking gripe with flat design is that a big part of design is creating visual HIERARCHY. Again, back to the 80/20 rule. SOME THINGS ARE IMPORTANT, OTHER THINGS AREN'T. How the fuck are you supposed to do that by making everything look the same?!?!?!

It's just really frusturating with both WP and iOS when it seems like the people who designed them put no fucking care in usability, and selfishely chose style.

Pemalite said:

 

Akvod said:

 

Fourthly: no folders. Only an alphabetical app list. For example, if you need to access multiple apps you often use together quickly, you can't have them sitting next to each other on a folder. You're forced to scroll up and down the list every time. Instead of having connected apps next to each other, you're forced to make the connections in your head, which is cumbersome and needlessly taxing, once again all because of consistency.


Well. You have "App folders" - Pin that to your start screen and throw all your most used apps into it. 
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/app-folder/1a248adb-1429-45ea-a507-f3d5f4cad58c


I love the UI, it works fantastic on a phone. I'm not a fan of it however on Desktops and Laptops and it's "alright" on a tablet.
The OS isn't going to be for everyone though, the more hard core enthusiasts should stick to Android.

Is that by Microsoft? It looks like it's from Samsung. And why isn't it pre-installed? To me, 3'rd party apps are no excuse for having a bad UI.



I like the look of Windows phone, but it still has a good bit of catching up to do. I might try it someday, but for now Android is hands down the best OS in my opinion. I was an IOS guy for a long time, but Android passed it at 4.1 and has not looked back. It would be cool if Windows phone got good.




I am so happy to see this! I have a Nokia Lumia 1020 and this is my third Windows phone. Originally got the Mozart as Windows 7 device followed by the HTC HD7 windows 7.5 and 7.8 and now windows 8.

This is the best UI ever and I am so happy to see that more people are adopting this platform. Now if we can get Snapchat and a couple of other killer apps adoption will pick up more.