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Forums - Politics Discussion - If Obamacare fails, then what?

Tigerlure said:
sc94597 said:
Tigerlure said:

For my Republican friends, please note that leaving it to the free market is not a good answer.

Yep, it's not a good answer, it's the best answer. Unfortunately we haven't had a free-market in most of healthcare since the 50's. Just look at eye-care and its low-costs and you can see how a free-market (free from government priveleged insurance companies) can reduce prices and make something affordable.  


I shudder at the thought of a true "free-market". Insurance companies hiking up prices whenever they want, dropping people off insurance, refusing to cover medical treatments at a whim. 

The free-market you're talking about won't happen because there is simply not enough competition. In my area, we're almost monopolized with Blue Cross Blue Shield. Imagine if they were completely unregulated.

You seem to have a poor understanding of the free market if that's your opinion of what would happen if insurance companies went that way. If an insurance company dropped people off for no reason, refused to provide promised coverage and just hicked up prices for no reason, the free market allows for people to switch to a better insurance company. 

The problem is that we as a society have continualy had personal responsibility taken away from us by the state creating a class of reliant people who receive welfare in return for their votes essentially. People have the ability to question insurance companies, learn what they offer (actually reading your insurance contract) and spread their opinions and review them so that we can judge insurance companies by their reputation and not because they had a snappy advertisement on tv.

And while there may be a need for more insurance companies, the primary reason why we have so few new entries is the overwhelming regulatory burden that the government has created preventing new entries into the industry. The government proclaims a love of competition but puts up massive barriers so new entries cant bear the cost, which of course the big companies love and the regulatory cost is nothing for them compared to the cost of competing.

Also the additional cost of Obamacare is likely to increase the government debt to GDP ratio that has toped 100% as we slowly approach the levels seen post World War 2. And unlike Greece we don't have the EU to bail us out.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

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SlayerRondo said:
Tigerlure said:
sc94597 said:
Tigerlure said:

For my Republican friends, please note that leaving it to the free market is not a good answer.

Yep, it's not a good answer, it's the best answer. Unfortunately we haven't had a free-market in most of healthcare since the 50's. Just look at eye-care and its low-costs and you can see how a free-market (free from government priveleged insurance companies) can reduce prices and make something affordable.  


I shudder at the thought of a true "free-market". Insurance companies hiking up prices whenever they want, dropping people off insurance, refusing to cover medical treatments at a whim. 

The free-market you're talking about won't happen because there is simply not enough competition. In my area, we're almost monopolized with Blue Cross Blue Shield. Imagine if they were completely unregulated.

You seem to have a poor understanding of the free market if that's your opinion of what would happen if insurance companies went that way. If an insurance company dropped people off for no reason, refused to provide promised coverage and just hicked up prices for no reason, the free market allows for people to switch to a better insurance company. 

The problem is that we as a society have continualy had personal responsibility taken away from us by the state creating a class of reliant people who receive welfare in return for their votes essentially. People have the ability to question insurance companies, learn what they offer (actually reading your insurance contract) and spread their opinions and review them so that we can judge insurance companies by their reputation and not because they had a snappy advertisement on tv.

And while there may be a need for more insurance companies, the primary reason why we have so few new entries is the overwhelming regulatory burden that the government has created preventing new entries into the industry. The government proclaims a love of competition but puts up massive barriers so new entries cant bear the cost, which of course the big companies love and the regulatory cost is nothing for them compared to the cost of competing.

Also the additional cost of Obamacare is likely to increase the government debt to GDP ratio that has toped 100% as we slowly approach the levels seen post World War 2. And unlike Greece we don't have the EU to bail us out.

First explain what a high debt-to-gdp ratio does. Explain why we should be afraid of that number.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
SlayerRondo said:
Tigerlure said:
sc94597 said:
Tigerlure said:

For my Republican friends, please note that leaving it to the free market is not a good answer.

Yep, it's not a good answer, it's the best answer. Unfortunately we haven't had a free-market in most of healthcare since the 50's. Just look at eye-care and its low-costs and you can see how a free-market (free from government priveleged insurance companies) can reduce prices and make something affordable.  


I shudder at the thought of a true "free-market". Insurance companies hiking up prices whenever they want, dropping people off insurance, refusing to cover medical treatments at a whim. 

The free-market you're talking about won't happen because there is simply not enough competition. In my area, we're almost monopolized with Blue Cross Blue Shield. Imagine if they were completely unregulated.

You seem to have a poor understanding of the free market if that's your opinion of what would happen if insurance companies went that way. If an insurance company dropped people off for no reason, refused to provide promised coverage and just hicked up prices for no reason, the free market allows for people to switch to a better insurance company. 

The problem is that we as a society have continualy had personal responsibility taken away from us by the state creating a class of reliant people who receive welfare in return for their votes essentially. People have the ability to question insurance companies, learn what they offer (actually reading your insurance contract) and spread their opinions and review them so that we can judge insurance companies by their reputation and not because they had a snappy advertisement on tv.

And while there may be a need for more insurance companies, the primary reason why we have so few new entries is the overwhelming regulatory burden that the government has created preventing new entries into the industry. The government proclaims a love of competition but puts up massive barriers so new entries cant bear the cost, which of course the big companies love and the regulatory cost is nothing for them compared to the cost of competing.

Also the additional cost of Obamacare is likely to increase the government debt to GDP ratio that has toped 100% as we slowly approach the levels seen post World War 2. And unlike Greece we don't have the EU to bail us out.

First explain what a high debt-to-gdp ratio does. Explain why we should be afraid of that number.

A measure of a countrys federal debt in relation to its gross domestic product (GDP). By comparing what a country owes to what it produces, the debt- to - GDP ratio indicates the country's ability to pay back its debt.

If a nation cannot make payment of the debt then they will default. Therefore the higher the debt to GDP ratio the greater the likely hood that the nation will default. This is what happened to Greece and forced them to beg the EU for bailouts twice. If America defaults there is no one capable or willing to bail us out and therefore I believe it is critical that we avoid this happening.





This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

SlayerRondo said:

A measure of a countrys federal debt in relation to its gross domestic product (GDP). By comparing what a country owes to what it produces, the debt- to - GDP ratio indicates the country's ability to pay back its debt.

If a nation cannot make payment of the debt then they will default. Therefore the higher the debt to GDP ratio the greater the likely hood that the nation will default. This is what happened to Greece and forced them to beg the EU for bailouts twice. If America defaults there is no one capable or willing to bail us out and therefore I believe it is critical that we avoid this happening.



Greece does not control its own currency. There's a large difference.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Weedlab said:
Then ....... I'm going to Canada.


Welcome to my country eh!



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Obama care is the biggest joke I've seen in a while. It proclaims universal and cheap health-care and yet people premiums and the overall expenses of health care are rising through the roof.



NobleTeam360 said:
Obama care is the biggest joke I've seen in a while. It proclaims universal and cheap health-care and yet people premiums and the overall expenses of health care are rising through the roof.

*citation needed.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
SlayerRondo said:
 

A measure of a countrys federal debt in relation to its gross domestic product (GDP). By comparing what a country owes to what it produces, the debt- to - GDP ratio indicates the country's ability to pay back its debt.

If a nation cannot make payment of the debt then they will default. Therefore the higher the debt to GDP ratio the greater the likely hood that the nation will default. This is what happened to Greece and forced them to beg the EU for bailouts twice. If America defaults there is no one capable or willing to bail us out and therefore I believe it is critical that we avoid this happening.



Greece does not control its own currency. There's a large difference.

Yes their is a large difference. We can print our own money at whatever rate we decide given that our currency is no longer bound to the value of gold. However this leads to inflation and inflation leads to uncertainty and that makes people less likely to buy US bonds or hold on too their currency which will decrease the value of the currency further.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

SlayerRondo said:
Mr Khan said:
SlayerRondo said:
 

A measure of a countrys federal debt in relation to its gross domestic product (GDP). By comparing what a country owes to what it produces, the debt- to - GDP ratio indicates the country's ability to pay back its debt.

If a nation cannot make payment of the debt then they will default. Therefore the higher the debt to GDP ratio the greater the likely hood that the nation will default. This is what happened to Greece and forced them to beg the EU for bailouts twice. If America defaults there is no one capable or willing to bail us out and therefore I believe it is critical that we avoid this happening.



Greece does not control its own currency. There's a large difference.

Yes their is a large difference. We can print our own money at whatever rate we decide given that our currency is no longer bound to the value of gold. However this leads to inflation and inflation leads to uncertainty and that makes people less likely to buy US bonds or hold on too their currency which will decrease the value of the currency further.

That's the beauty of it, however. Inflation only leads to uncertainty when it leads to uncertainty. The liquidity trap sorts all of that out for the moment.

Japan demonstrates that America's nowhere near the danger zone, especially since the US doesn't have Japan's demographic problems which mess with the tax base.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Come to Canada... We have free healthcare that is here to stay!



                  

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