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Forums - Gaming Discussion - My Battlefield 4 campaign review...

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fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Your right LOL. It's capitalism that dominates and what better way to show that is consumers supporting the product. 

Quality is subjective opinion, commercial success doesn't make a game any better to those for whom it does not represent quality.

I say that quality CAN be be defined quantitatively. Just because some else may not think it's good doesn't exactly mean that it has less quality. If there are more gamers buying a piece of software then it is that piece of software that has the greatest value for alot of people. Quality in this case means the better value as mass consumers see it. Just because I don't like bethesda games doesn't mean that I will discount everyone elses value of the experience. Even though JRPGs have been dissapointing, (Which is one of my favourite genres.) I realize that bethesda games have more qualities due to consumer support. If people value a product more it's honestly that simple that more people see quality in the title. Just because hardcore gamers keep shouting that wii sports sucks doesn't devalue my thoughts on it because in the real world their opinions are mostly irrelevant. (Just like how some people say that the ps vita is a better system. In the real world it doesn't match with the fact that the 3DS has better games, period.) 

Again, an opinion being more popular doesn't make it objective truth.

Sales numbers are the objective truth.  

Big publishers can already see that. 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what quality means then. For you it's about personal opinions and for me I see it the same way as publishers do since there the ones making the money. 


I wrote a beautiful reply to this touching on religion, political ideologies and the void within us, as well as more down to earth stuff regarding the choice we make to do with quality, perception of quality, marketing, value and commonality promoting purchases. Then as I posted the Internet died and it was lost. Might write it again later, but for now you'll have to make do with this teaser.



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fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Duh that's an easy answer. Ofcourse it sold more than all of them combined. You actually believe in review sites ? (Oh god I hope your not serious.) The opinions are in SALES people. Those review sites are dominated by hardcore gamers LOL.

No, I do not believe in review scores. Reviews are just opinions. So is quality. Sales are quantifiable, quality is not.

Really ? SALES do tell the quality of a game otherwise the game is not valued by the mass. For a game to sell well it's must have quality or else it's deemed trash. Have you ever noticed that alot of games that sell like shit are shit in the first place ? 

The masses also value Twilight and Justin Beiber. An opinion being popular doesn't make it any more valid.

It just means that their better.

It's as simple as that. 

Actual value - percieved value - market value, those are the three measures of value for any product. I guess one could throw in sentimental value, but that's a useless metric for a sales discussion. Actual value is determined by R&D, production costs, distribution and advertising, percieved value is one out of the two that can be most easily manipulated, this is simply what consumers imagine something it is worth based on a multitude of factors, hype can easily be built around a product with mediocre or even bad quality, thus raising the percieved value (such as products going on Ellen or Oprah, a lot of women go crazy for it, percieved value rises without the prodcution costs etc changing one bit, the fact that something goes on Ellen or Oprah does not change the quality either). The 360 is a good example of this; it had terrible hardware quality for a good while but maintained a high percieved value throughout, and partly still does. Market value is a combo of the two firts, adjusted for inflation, currency and exchange rates, profit margins, stock and sellthrough, among other things.

Why has Apple gone downwards lately? Has the quality of their product gone down? No, their percieved value, and thus their market value has gone down, due to increased consumer awareness, multiple choices on the market and an open source (or more) alternative edging them.

Quality is in no way related to sales numbers, not even close. Even your hero Malstrom knows this.

Why is it that almost no one on sales site can grasp these very, very basest of market principals. The other tools in your box also need replacing, you're just basing everything on desires and wishes, not a good foundation for any argument.



fatslob-:O said:
Mr Puggsly said:
fatslob-:O said:
@OT I'm not surprised at all. People play battlefield for it's multiplayer. Atleast the online is COD quality.


Then why do they put the campaign on the disc? Obviously the campaign sells more copies, that's why they advertise it.

I guess EA feels the need to put more pointless shit in the games. I'm not too sure about the campaign being the main reason games sells anymore. For others it will matter I guess and for some the online matters just as much.

Maybe the masses buy it for the multiplayer, but people are surely buying it for the campaign as well.

People hope for the total package, good campaign and multiplayer. I don't believe sales would be as strong if it were multiplayer only.



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fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Your right LOL. It's capitalism that dominates and what better way to show that is consumers supporting the product. 

Quality is subjective opinion, commercial success doesn't make a game any better to those for whom it does not represent quality.

I say that quality CAN be be defined quantitatively. Just because some else may not think it's good doesn't exactly mean that it has less quality. If there are more gamers buying a piece of software then it is that piece of software that has the greatest value for alot of people. Quality in this case means the better value as mass consumers see it. Just because I don't like bethesda games doesn't mean that I will discount everyone elses value of the experience. Even though JRPGs have been dissapointing, (Which is one of my favourite genres.) I realize that bethesda games have more qualities due to consumer support. If people value a product more it's honestly that simple that more people see quality in the title. Just because hardcore gamers keep shouting that wii sports sucks doesn't devalue my thoughts on it because in the real world their opinions are mostly irrelevant. (Just like how some people say that the ps vita is a better system. In the real world it doesn't match with the fact that the 3DS has better games, period.) 

Again, an opinion being more popular doesn't make it objective truth.

Sales numbers are the objective truth.  

Big publishers can already see that. 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what quality means then. For you it's about personal opinions and for me I see it the same way as publishers do since there the ones making the money. 

Yep, agree to disagree.



I went straight to multiplayer lol, not interested in a half-assed single player, I'll play it later when I'm bored.

Origin is a fucking scam its £55 for the base game, if you got to greenmangaming or other CD key sites, you can get it for £34 and premium for £33.

Don't buy from Origin if you're looking to buy this game you can save yourself a good £20/$35



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Mr Puggsly said:
Areym said:
Well , yeah. BF is all about multiplayer apparently. You would think people would have caught up by now.

This is such a stupid argument. If EA is gonna market the campagn, maybe they deliver a half decent campaign.

CoD is about the multiplayer as well. Yet year after year they make a solid campaign.

But you knew that their campaign were getting progressively worst, as far as main battlefield games go.

To expect anything less than a sub-par showing is simple denial. Also, EA.



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bazmeistergen said:


I wrote a beautiful reply to this touching on religion, political ideologies and the void within us, as well as more down to earth stuff regarding the choice we make to do with quality, perception of quality, marketing, value and commonality promoting purchases. Then as I posted the Internet died and it was lost. Might write it again later, but for now you'll have to make do with this teaser.

You wanna hurry up on that ?

Mummelmann said:

Actual value - percieved value - market value, those are the three measures of value for any product. I guess one could throw in sentimental value, but that's a useless metric for a sales discussion. Actual value is determined by R&D, production costs, distribution and advertising, percieved value is one out of the two that can be most easily manipulated, this is simply what consumers imagine something it is worth based on a multitude of factors, hype can easily be built around a product with mediocre or even bad quality, thus raising the percieved value (such as products going on Ellen or Oprah, a lot of women go crazy for it, percieved value rises without the prodcution costs etc changing one bit, the fact that something goes on Ellen or Oprah does not change the quality either). The 360 is a good example of this; it had terrible hardware quality for a good while but maintained a high percieved value throughout, and partly still does. Market value is a combo of the two firts, adjusted for inflation, currency and exchange rates, profit margins, stock and sellthrough, among other things.

Why has Apple gone downwards lately? Has the quality of their product gone down? No, their percieved value, and thus their market value has gone down, due to increased consumer awareness, multiple choices on the market and an open source (or more) alternative edging them.

Quality is in no way related to sales numbers, not even close. Even your hero Malstrom knows this.

Why is it that almost no one on sales site can grasp these very, very basest of market principals. The other tools in your box also need replacing, you're just basing everything on desires and wishes, not a good foundation for any argument.

I am talking about what the general consumers see as quality and value. Marketing alone won't help make the product go off the shelves. In the long run it is how the consumers see the quality of the product.

@Bold Malstrom says very differently. (I guess you don't check him out often enough. )

Mr Puggsly said:

Maybe the masses buy it for the multiplayer, but people are surely buying it for the campaign as well.

People hope for the total package, good campaign and multiplayer. I don't believe sales would be as strong if it were multiplayer only.

You overestimate the value of a campaign for battlefield games. Battlefield games were not known to have single player originally. I'm not too sure about your statement of the sales being if it were multiplayer only. How about we make a bet that Titanfall will sell over 800K in it's first week on vgchartz ?

curl-6 said:

Yep, agree to disagree.

 

@Everyone (Except for pugglsy and maybe curl.) These blog posts from malstrom are extremely interesting and people should take a look at it. (You'll all know where I'm coming from.)

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/sales-not-reviews-determines-product-success/

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/04/02/email-do-greater-sales-mean-greater-quality/

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/07/01/email-do-you-really-believe-better-sales-means-better-quality/

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/07/01/email-regarding-the-email-do-you-really-believe-better-sales-means-better-quality/

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/email-more-on-sales-and-quality/

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/07/06/email-sales-and-quality/

@bazmeistergen

I'm going to guess your post is going to be a response to the idea of quality.

@Mummelmann

What's not a good foundation for any arguements is not using those number. How else can quality be measured if we have nothing to base it on ? The definition of quality is redefined by the mass market. Sales numbers for a product will only tell the ones creating it whether it is good or bad. If alot of people see call of duty as a good franchise then so be it the sales numbers will support that claim, that is how Activison will see it. 

@curl-6 

I don't think I have anything to say more to you since you probably made your mind up but an input on what you think of these blog posts would be nice.

@Everyone 

I love how people hate sales numbers sooo much. They are the ones to speak about the truth of the quality of the product. 

 

 

 

 



Sales have a lot more to do with perceived appeal than quality.

Can high quality increase appeal? Yes.

Is that all there is for video games? Not even close. Genre, art style, marketing, current market saturation level (both in and out of genre), publisher brand strength, developer brand strength, IP brand strength, consumer excitement, reviews, and quality all play a role in how much a game will sell. And yes, reviews and quality are not the same thing.



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fatslob-:O said:

@Everyone 

I love how people hate sales numbers sooo much. They are the ones to speak about the truth of the quality of the product.

I don't know about everyone else, but I don't hate sales numbers.  They are very important.  They are just not always a great indicator of quality.  Sometimes they are.  Sometimes they are not.  Inferior products win in the market all the time for a variety of reasons.

I would say that sales are a great indicator of market appeal.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
Switch - Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (2014/2017)
3DS - Star Fox 64 3D (2011)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links

Nothing new. BF 3's campaign was already horse shit and this one is according to most reviews even worse.



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