Forums - Gaming Discussion - Persona vs Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga

Which do you like better, which have you beaten?

Persona 3 or 4 is better. I've only beaten Persona 3 or 4.
Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne is better. I've only beaten Shin Megami Tense
Persona 3 or 4 is better. I've beaten Persona 3 or 4 and Nocturne.
Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne is better. I've beaten Persona 3 or 4 and Noc
I like Persona, I haven't beaten any of the listed.
I like SMT. I haven't beaten any of the above listed.

Shin Megami Tensei 4 was kind of a disappointment.  Great story, great combat system, but it had some issues.  Started off horribly slow for starters, but the broken stat system was a major problem with the game.  The game didn't sell well, and while I bought the game, most of us can guess why.  Certainly not because it's not Persona, and more of a certainn group of people don't buy third party games, but let's not bother about that.  You just hear that, "the reason it didn't sell is because Persona is better," although maybe more popular is a better term.

So whether it's fans of Persona making statements, or countless websites with their top 10 PS2 RPG opinion pieces, etc, Persona 3 and 4 usually make the list but then some random garbage fills the other spots.  So I'm thinking.  VGChartz may be wrong, but their sales are showing 70,000 copies of Nocturne were sold in the US.  In comparison Persona 3 and 4 has sold 1.1 million across multiple versions, and we'll say that a little over half of those are unique players, so 700,000. 

No idea if these 700,000 unique players is correct, but I'll give Persona the benefit of the doube and say that 100% of the people who played SMT Nocturne has played Persona 4.  That's one out of every 10 people who have played Persona 4 has also played SMT Nocturne.  I'm only pointing out that it's a massive coincidence that if someone online says that SMT Nocturne is better, you have a group of people who say Persona is better and every single one of them has played Nocturne.  Instead, what I'm thinking is that most people online haven't played Nocturne and when the subject is brought up they're just talking out of their ass, but that's just me. 

That's just a rant.  Not what I'm really getting at.  I'm just making a statement about my opinion on it, andit may be on track, might be far off.  It's speculation with nothing to back it up.  Maybe everyone who goes online and has played Nocturne has also played Persona.

All I'm curious about is what everyone's opinion is on the games themselves.  If you've played Persona 3 or 4 only, then fine.  What's your opinion still?  If you've only played Nocturne, same thing, what's your opinion?  What about those of you who have played a combination of them, Persona 3 and/or 4, as well as Nocturne and/or Digital Devil Saga?

Here's my opinion on them though.  While I own Persona 3, Persona 3 FES, and the P3P, I haven't played them.  I own and have played through all the others but haven't played  Persona 4 The Golden.  Here's in detail why I think both Nocturne and both Digital Devil Saga games are better than Persona 4.

Now there's nothing wrong with the gameplay or storyline for any of them.  While Persona 4 might play a bit differently, the gameplay is just as good as the others.  Instead of the press turn system, your characters get additional actions each time they knock an enemy down and get a extra damaging attack if all enemies are knocked down. Combat in Persona 4 is actually slightly better end game because your allies can't be customized the way the hero can and with the game lacking the press turn system, one enemy using an attack that is absorbed or reflected won't end the entire enemy turn.  While I will counter that is very end game, and getting demons customized like that will take some time on SMT3, less on DDS but it will take some grinding.  By the time you're overpowered against normal end level enemies on either Nocturne or DDS, you've probably got all the secrets in both games or you were grinding against those same enemies for a bit.

The difference between the games are how they play out.  Nocturne plays like your traditional RPG.  Storyline, world map, uniquely designed dungeons, etc.  It's a fairly long  game and the world is pretty large. Digital Devil Saga doesn't have your traditional world map, much like most SMT titles now days, the map is there to choose the town or dungeon you want to go to, while there are some areas that interconnect between town to town or dungeon to dungeon.  Digital Devil Saga 2 is more like Final Fantasy 10 where the entire world is interconnected with the rest. 

Persona 4 is different though, you've got your town outside of dungeons, with maybe 10-15 unique screens not counting shops.  Dungeons on the other hand are all the same except for certain floors.  Each one is a small randomized set of hallways with a random set of doors each having random treasures depending on your area.  There's no real sense of discovery.

What's your traditional sense of gameplay in an RPG is no longer the gameplay.  30% of the time you'll probably be in a dungeon, randomly generated btw, and combat.  The rest of the time you'll either be reading storyline or running around town increase your social link stats or social links.  So 70% of the game, you'll be in the exact same 10-15 screens, doing the exact same stuff every day.  The storyline and character development are good and I'm glad there's a game that gives you more to increase outside of combat, but it's a lot of time managment repetitition when there's no storyline. While you can play the game without worrying about the time managment.  Screw leveling up your knowledge, courage, etc, and just keep working jobs to make money and do nothing but the dungeon sections.  It'd be worse because of the lack of discovery as I mentioned above. 

With as many people as I've talked to who didn't like how Star Ocean the Second Story forced you to go through two hours of dialogue before you could explore or do anything, I find it hard  to believethat the majority of people who played both games would enjoy a game where the story and character development is the main focus rather than one that is an all excellent game. 

I enjoy Persona 4.  Very good game, but this is my opinion.  That there are a lot of people that just haven't experienced SMT Nocturne so just assume that it couldn't be as good as Persona 4 because it's as good as it is.



kuporeviews and other stuff

NeoRatt said:
Sony is now renaming the PlayStation to the RePlayStation...

You can replay PC Indie or PS3 games on it!
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Persona all day every day

The Playstation Underdog- Lord of the Persona series - General of the Playstation Nation!

To be honest I enjoy more the classical Shin Megami Tensei games than Persona! Shin Megami Tensei 3 was excellent and the first one was quite good too! There is far more gameplay segments and more challenging fights!

Digital devil saga is extremely underrated, the story is kinda sad but it's top notch.


"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

I first played Shin Megami Tensei for the SNES and was totally confused with how it played xD.

 

The only games I played relevant to the topic include

Completed

-Persona 1 Portable (PSP)
-Persona 2 Innocent Sin (PSP)
-Persona 3 Portable (PSP)

Although I have/played abit

-Persona 3 FES (PS2)
-Persona 4 (PS2)
-Persona Revelations (PSX)
-Persona 2 Eternal Punishment (PSX)
-Shin Megami Tensei (SNES)
-Shin Megami Tensei 2 (SNES)
-The PS2 Shin Megami Tensei/Digital Devil Saga ones for a little bit

 

I do have to say P1 and P2IS seem more like Shin Megami Tensei in terms of its dark art style/nature but I enjoyed more of P3 and P4's art style and gameplay. (still I enjoyed the first two especially P1P - didnt like the PSX version of P1 though, the world map was horrendous).



I'm not gonna lie. I'm not hardcore enough to like digital devil saga I played it like 5 hours and then sold it, i liked nocturne though not as much as persona. I just didn't have as much fun playing those and felt too Grindy whereas in persona I could grind as I please to an extent, and even though I have to fight to get stronger you can choose the blob to attack. The dungeon design in persona is a lot worse than nocturne.

I loved persona 2, 3, and 4 though. The first one not that much. I haven't played SMTiv that much either.



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Nocturne > Persona 4 > Persona 3 > Digital Devil Saga 1 > Digital Devil Saga 2

Nocturne is the granddaddy of them all. Fun & strategic combat with a great difficulty to boot, an amazing atmosphere, good story and great dungeon crawling. Nocturne is one of the few games I'm scared to play because of its difficulty; you can be wiped out with a random battle just like that. Its atmosphere, difficulty and dungeon designs really kept me on the edge of my seat. 

Persona 3/4's stories & characters are way better than Nocturne's, but the gameplay not so much (not saying it's bad btw). However, I do find the Persona games more addicting due to its social-link/calendar system; I'm always saying "just one more day." The Persona games have a striped-down combat of Nocturne, and it's not as fun and engaging. The dungeon crawling is horribly bland.

Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2 are great RPGs, but they are just run-of-the-mill. The combat & story are pretty awesome, but without summoning demons & etc, it's not as great as Nocturne's. Dungeon Crawling is just as bland as Persona 4; perhaps even worse with the high encounter rate.



kupomogli said:

Shin Megami Tensei 4 was kind of a disappointment.  Great story, great combat system, but it had some issues.  Started off horribly slow for starters, but the broken stat system was a major problem with the game.  The game didn't sell well, and while I bought the game, most of us can guess why.  Certainly not because it's not Persona, and more of a certainn group of people don't buy third party games, but let's not bother about that.  You just hear that, "the reason it didn't sell is because Persona is better," although maybe more popular is a better term.

So whether it's fans of Persona making statements, or countless websites with their top 10 PS2 RPG opinion pieces, etc, Persona 3 and 4 usually make the list but then some random garbage fills the other spots.  So I'm thinking.  VGChartz may be wrong, but their sales are showing 70,000 copies of Nocturne were sold in the US.  In comparison Persona 3 and 4 has sold 1.1 million across multiple versions, and we'll say that a little over half of those are unique players, so 700,000. 

No idea if these 700,000 unique players is correct, but I'll give Persona the benefit of the doube and say that 100% of the people who played SMT Nocturne has played Persona 4.  That's one out of every 10 people who have played Persona 4 has also played SMT Nocturne.  I'm only pointing out that it's a massive coincidence that if someone online says that SMT Nocturne is better, you have a group of people who say Persona is better and every single one of them has played Nocturne.  Instead, what I'm thinking is that most people online haven't played Nocturne and when the subject is brought up they're just talking out of their ass, but that's just me. 

That's just a rant.  Not what I'm really getting at.  I'm just making a statement about my opinion on it, andit may be on track, might be far off.  It's speculation with nothing to back it up.  Maybe everyone who goes online and has played Nocturne has also played Persona.

All I'm curious about is what everyone's opinion is on the games themselves.  If you've played Persona 3 or 4 only, then fine.  What's your opinion still?  If you've only played Nocturne, same thing, what's your opinion?  What about those of you who have played a combination of them, Persona 3 and/or 4, as well as Nocturne and/or Digital Devil Saga?

Here's my opinion on them though.  While I own Persona 3, Persona 3 FES, and the P3P, I own and have played through all the others except Persona 4 The Golden.  Here's in detail why I think both Nocturne and both Digital Devil Saga games are better than Persona 4.

Now there's nothing wrong with the gameplay or storyline for any of them.  While Persona 4 might play a bit differently, the gameplay is just as good as the others.  Instead of the press turn system, your characters get additional actions each time they knock an enemy down and get a extra damaging attack if all enemies are knocked down. Combat in Persona 4 is actually slightly better end game because your allies can't be customized the way the hero can and with the game lacking the press turn system, one enemy using an attack that is absorbed or reflected won't end the entire enemy turn.  While I will counter that is very end game, and getting demons customized like that will take some time on SMT3, less on DDS but it will take some grinding.  By the time you're overpowered against normal end level enemies on either Nocturne or DDS, you've probably got all the secrets in both games or you were grinding against those same enemies for a bit.

The difference between the games are how they play out.  Nocturne plays like your traditional RPG.  Storyline, world map, uniquely designed dungeons, etc.  It's a fairly long  game and the world is pretty large. Digital Devil Saga doesn't have your traditional world map, much like most SMT titles now days, the map is there to choose the town or dungeon you want to go to, while there are some areas that interconnect between town to town or dungeon to dungeon.  Digital Devil Saga 2 is more like Final Fantasy 10 where the entire world is interconnected with the rest. 

Persona 4 is different though, you've got your town outside of dungeons, with maybe 10-15 unique screens not counting shops.  Dungeons on the other hand are all the same except for certain floors.  Each one is a small randomized set of hallways with a random set of doors each having random treasures depending on your area.  There's no real sense of discovery.

What's your traditional sense of gameplay in an RPG is no longer the gameplay.  30% of the time you'll probably be in a dungeon, randomly generated btw, and combat.  The rest of the time you'll either be reading storyline or running around town increase your social link stats or social links.  So 70% of the game, you'll be in the exact same 10-15 screens, doing the exact same stuff every day.  The storyline and character development are good and I'm glad there's a game that gives you more to increase outside of combat, but it's a lot of time managment repetitition when there's no storyline. While you can play the game without worrying about the time managment.  Screw leveling up your knowledge, courage, etc, and just keep working jobs to make money and do nothing but the dungeon sections.  It'd be worse because of the lack of discovery as I mentioned above. 

With as many people as I've talked to who didn't like how Star Ocean the Second Story forced you to go through two hours of dialogue before you could explore or do anything, I find it hard  to believethat the majority of people who played both games would enjoy a game where the story and character development is the main focus rather than one that is an all excellent game. 

I enjoy Persona 4.  Very good game, but this is my opinion.  That there are a lot of people that just haven't experienced SMT Nocturne so just assume that it couldn't be as good as Persona 4 because it's as good as it is.


...The stat system isnt broken and the game did sell well

What the hell is with your SMT4 griping?

 

Raidou Kuzonoha >Persona

Virtual Boy Jack Bros > Persona

Persona Trinity Soul > Persona

Devil Survivor Overclocked> all of them.

SMT Strange Journey and SMT 4> All of them (The slow start doesnt bother me because its not tedious whatsoever, its more setting

Soul Hackers is a little bit old, I'd compare it to going back and playing the old Resident Evil games.

Nocturne's great but its got high enconter rates out the ass. Its almost like you're playing a horror game.

Persona's fums can suck it.



Dr.EisDrachenJaeger said:

Raidou Kuzonoha >Persona

Nocturne's great but its got high enconter rates out the ass. Its almost like you're playing a horror game.

You talk high encounter rate in Nocturne and you list Raidou Kuzunoha first on your list(not in quality, just the first game you listed after talking about my opinion of SMT4?)  Raidou Kuzunoha not only has poor overall gameplay and a very boring story, but it has a ridiculous high encounter rate add to the fact that there are almost no areas in the entire game that you don't get in a random battle, including in town.

The poor story and poor gameplay comment is an opinion, but the comment about how bad the encounter rate is is undeniable fact to anyone who's played the game.  The encounter rate is so bad that it makes the encounter rate of Beyond the Beyond look good.  I even took the liberty of Googling "Raidou Kuzunoha encounter rate" for you so you can see pages and pages of comments about it. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=raidou+kuzunoha+high+encounter+rate&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=raidou+kuzunoha+encounter+rate&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial

Oh, and just to prove you wrong about the SMT Nocturne encounter rate, I just Youtubed for a let's play so you can see just how far you can travel before you get in a random encounter.  There are very specific parts in the game that have higher encounter rate, but the games encounter rate without a spell or item is actually very low compared to most RPGs with random encounters.  The rare areas where there's a higher encounter rate, it's still pretty low compared to the average RPG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F67u-VyE4qc

Your opinion is your opinion and I'm not going to question it unless you post bs.  If you didn't start your post with Raidou Kuzunoha then post some bs about high encounter rate on SMT Nocturne, I wouldn't have even replied.



kuporeviews and other stuff

NeoRatt said:
Sony is now renaming the PlayStation to the RePlayStation...

You can replay PC Indie or PS3 games on it!
I haven't played Nocturne so i'll mostly talk about Persona 3 and 4. I'm surprised your gripe about the repetitive dungeon focused on persona 4 instead of 3, which is the definition of repetitive.

You climb up a massive 200+ floor tower, the music is the same, the floor design is practically the same and it's all just so bad. if you get unlucky and the enemy pulls a mudo skill on your MC and it hits... well enjoy restarting. One of the first few games i actually quit just because the game play was fuck awful, only to come back because i liked the characters. At least in persona 4 the dungeons were mostly just 10 floors, had a different theme to it, you could restart in the same floor you were at and just felt better.

And SMT 4 didn't sell well? It's the highest selling main line SMT game, how is that not selling well? I'm getting the impression that you got "the reason it didn't sell is because Persona is better", from me. Persona is not a better game IMO, it's just far more popular because of that dating sim element. I mean i love the game but, when i hear people talking about persona it's never about the story, or the gameplay, or the soundtrack. It's mostly about which character they think is the hottest (talking about other websites here, not vgchartz)

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In case you were too dense to notice, I was being facetious

Why else would I mention the Virtual Boy games and an anime?

Poor Raidou, dont get no respect round these tawdry parts.


Lawl.

But really man, get your ducks straight, Atlus was quite pleased with how SMTIV preformed.

SMT games in general have a pretty high encounter rate.  At least with Nocturne its not every 4 steps :P