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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Inafune:‘If a Creator Hasn’t Played Mario, They’re Probably not a good Creator’

fatslob-:O said:
Mr Khan said:
fatslob-:O said:
That's a pretty bad generalization.

I should say not. Whatever genre you work in, you probably owe something to Nintendo, pretty much unless you're in text RPGs. The historical impact of their works are foundational to game design as a whole, and if you think you can ignore the foundations, then you need a lesson in humility.

It's like anyone who aspires to be a great movie director, "Birth of a Nation" (white supremacist morals aside) is required viewing. If you haven't seen it, you can't understand where the medium's been and can make no credible claim towards contributing to the medium in a progressive way. So it is with video games and Mario, or Zelda. So much of what present games take for granted comes from these resources, and you cannot be groundbreaking without appreciating those who broke the ground that you stand upon, or more importantly, understanding why they were so successful.

Games are very different today compared to what nintendo created as ground breaking in the past. They may have had a big impact on game design but I'd go as far to say that third parties overall did more in the past recent years to make more revolutionary ideas than nintendo does now. Nintendo is not humble enough anymore to disrupt the idustry.


What does that even mean ? Wii Sports wasn´t disruptive ? How are they not humble ? Explain !



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osed125 said:
Seece said:
Yeah because a developer making an FPS could learn a lot from Mario .....

You are looking at it at the wrong angle, in his opinion, Mario is the equivalent of Beethoven (first musician that came to mind, could be any other), but that doesn't stop death metal bands or rappers for taking inspiration in his music and what it represents. 

Nope, analogy doesn't work at all.

Fact of the matter is it could be considered Mario is the bible for Platformers, nothing else.



 

Super Mario games are the pure definition of a videogame...its just that simple

modern games are just crap pseudo sims
just look at PS4 XB1 games....errr racing, fighting and shooting...and thats all folks, theres nothing more, just a stupid clunky simulation of a potential real activity

mario games are designed to be fun, tricky and challenging to your hands and senses. not to make you drive a car...wanna drive a car? go to the real world a drive goddammitt



fireburn95 said:
Is he being serious?! A good game creator is limited by whether you play mario or not, lol.


Maybe he thinks that the original Super Mario Bros. is a great example of how to teach the players game mechanics ?

Like when you study literature, you don´t just ignore the classics written before some random point in time ?



osed125 said:
Pristine20 said:
happydolphin said:

In view of the OP, what Inafune seems to be trying to say is not whether today's Mario games are overrated, good or not, but rather that Mario in all its heritage (he goes on to name his favorite, SMB3 on the NES) is part of a sort of developer's bible, from which a dev can take a pattern and work from it, so as to infuse their games with creative awesomeness.

I think that's what he means, and that would make perfect sense coming from the maker of Megaman and the upcoming MN9.

Holy mother of cherrypicking. The themes and story of Mario are full of stereotypes and cheesy art, but I think what Inafune was referring to was the creative  genius in gameplay innovation, as well as not taking itself too seriously. It's pretty transparent from the OP.

"Creative genius in gameplay innovation" is nothing more than jumping up and down while moving from left to right to me. That's as subjective as it gets. The points you praise Mario for are so subjective that it's pointless to argue them. Some see the Mona Lisa as a great work of art, others just see an ugly female portrait. Who is right? It's nice that you called my criticism "cherrypicking" but realise that it's valid. It brings home my point. When it comes to Miyamoto, everyone is quick to say 'shhh, hide the flaws' and sing about how great he supposedly is.

Mario is simple part of gaming history, just because you don't like it doesn't mean game designers should ignore it. Is the same as artists, every artist have seen the Mona Lisa, Birth of Venus, The Scream, etc. What that artist does may be completely different from this paintings, more modern and "original", but is simple part of the media they love and dedicated their life to. It's the same as video games, games like Grim Fandango, M.U.L.E, Space Invaders, Pacman, Super Mario, etc. are part of this history and any game designer this days should look at this games and what they represent to the media. 

I can bet good money that many of what I consider good artists now were inspired by other comic books and not any of the art you posted. Does their art then automatically suck? Games are not about representing anything to the media. They are about entertaining people. You can do that without playing any of the games on your list.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

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Seece said:
Yeah because a developer making an FPS could learn a lot from Mario .....


I think they could. FPS games have powerups (What's the difference between a mushroom and a shield belt in Unreal Tournament?), level flow is crucial for both genres, and many shooters place at least some value on inertia.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

Seece said:
osed125 said:
Seece said:
Yeah because a developer making an FPS could learn a lot from Mario .....

You are looking at it at the wrong angle, in his opinion, Mario is the equivalent of Beethoven (first musician that came to mind, could be any other), but that doesn't stop death metal bands or rappers for taking inspiration in his music and what it represents. 

Nope, analogy doesn't work at all.

Fact of the matter is it could be considered Mario is the bible for Platformers, nothing else.

You can always use aspects of Mario in an FPS. But to do that you'd have to study what makes Mario great.

There are more to games than their genres. For example, we know that even Zelda takes from Mario and vice versa. It's certain that what Miyamoto used to help develop Metroid Prime stemmed from his work on Mario as well.

In the end, you can take inspiration from the graphics, music, ingenuity (gameplay innovations) and many other things when developing any genre.

Did Borderlands take inspiration from Diablo? Most probably. Are they the same genre? Nope.



Pristine20 said:

"Creative genius in gameplay innovation" is nothing more than jumping up and down while moving from left to right to me. That's as subjective as it gets. The points you praise Mario for are so subjective that it's pointless to argue them. Some see the Mona Lisa as a great work of art, others just see an ugly female portrait. Who is right? It's nice that you called my criticism "cherrypicking" but realise that it's valid. It brings home my point. When it comes to Miyamoto, everyone is quick to say 'shhh, hide the flaws' and sing about how great he supposedly is.


So in the end it's completely pointless to praise anyone since no one is appreciated by everyone. Everytime someone praises a game for what it is and/or for what it did we must come to the rescue and explain that everything is subjective and thus pointless. Fantastic. I propose that we add that to the forum rules.

 

And I believe you, and others, are completely missing the point here. It's not about whether or not you enjoy Mario games but understanding what those games did for game design. If you're serious about designing video games then understanding the history of gaming and how we got to this point is important. Liking the games or not is irrelevant because the point of going through the classics is to look at the mechanics and how they pushed the medium forward and/or into new directions. Merely knowing about modern games only takes you so far, and sooner or later you might end up in a situation where you need to go back to basics, which means you're screwed if you don't understand those basics.

Mario is one of those classics that greatly advanced video game design. You or others may not like those games but that doesn't take away from what those games did for the medium. As a mere player it's perfectly fine to not get what's so great about a certain classic. You don't like it and that's fine, we all have out preferences. But for a designer to say that he/she doesn't understand what a classic game did that was so great is just ignorant and speaks volumes about that person's ability to make games.



Seece said:
osed125 said:
Seece said:
Yeah because a developer making an FPS could learn a lot from Mario .....

You are looking at it at the wrong angle, in his opinion, Mario is the equivalent of Beethoven (first musician that came to mind, could be any other), but that doesn't stop death metal bands or rappers for taking inspiration in his music and what it represents. 

Nope, analogy doesn't work at all.

Fact of the matter is it could be considered Mario is the bible for Platformers, nothing else.

And why it doesn't work? Musicians dedicate their lives to music, and they know what Beethoven represents to the media. Sure they don't use it as a direct inspiration, a rapper will use idk..Snoop Dog I guess, and a metal band will look at Led Zeppelin. But if you look at the profiles of most artists, you will see Beethoven, Mozart and the likes as inspirations.



Nintendo and PC gamer

Seece said:
osed125 said:
Seece said:
Yeah because a developer making an FPS could learn a lot from Mario .....

You are looking at it at the wrong angle, in his opinion, Mario is the equivalent of Beethoven (first musician that came to mind, could be any other), but that doesn't stop death metal bands or rappers for taking inspiration in his music and what it represents. 

Nope, analogy doesn't work at all.

Fact of the matter is it could be considered Mario is the bible for Platformers, nothing else.


Mario was the series that started giving games a sense of purpose, a story mode, level continuity, difference amongst levels, different ways to kill enemies, I'm sure these are things used in EVERY GENRE.