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Parting Post: GTA V's success is bad for the videogame industry.

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Parting Post: GTA V's success is bad for the videogame industry.

DanneSandin said:
NightDragon83 said:
DanneSandin said:
NightDragon83 said:

Yeah, games like GTA and COD are so detrimental to the industry. Things would be so much better if it consisted solely of neverending rehashes of Nintendo's now nearly 30 years-old IPs, and countless cookie-cutter JRPGs.

While I agree that not every game needs to be this "AAA" blockbuster type title that costs hundreds of millions to develop and market, without these types of games the industry would be where it was 20+ years ago as a niche hobby market.

Edit:  badgenome totally owned this thread with his epic post (I don't care if it was copy-pasta'd or not, you're still the best princess on here in my book.)

I'll just ignore your first statement, since it's pretty ignorant.

But I don't think we would end up THAT far back in time. The AAA games have taken on a new dimension this past gen. Last gen (with PS2, GC and Xbox) we had AAA games, AA Games and A games (and shovelware) -  all that we were missing out back then was the indies.

Yeah, who would have thought badgenome would be the smartest person around? That was a really good post

How so?  All I'm saying is that it's pretty ridiculous for someone to single out the continued huge success (and subsequent sequels/milking) of AAA franchises like GTA or COD and claim that this is bad for the industry, but at the same time completely ignore the fact that companies like Nintendo, SEGA, Square, Capcom, Konami, etc have been doing this very thing with their established IPs for decades now.  Has the industry suffered and creativity been stymied because of the release of the umpteenth Mario or Sonic title?  Is it going to collapse under the weight of the next MGS or Final Fantasy?

I actually think that GTA has a lot more in common with Nintendo IP's in the way they're released and handled than GTA has in common with CoD and AC. R* releases a new GTA every 5 years and adds a lot of new things with every new instalment (just like, let's say Mario 3D), while CoD and AC are annual releases that doesn't see all that much improvment from title to title. A new GTA or Mario is like jumping from AC1 to AC4; it's the same basic gameplay - but new things have been added and improved.

I think that the OP takes issues with the AAA games overly bloated budgets and the annual releases, and it's these facts that's hurting the industry.

These games are succesful in making money, they are qualiity games (anyone claiming CoD or AC isn't quality is out of touch with reality) and they bring gaming into the mainstream bringing millions of new customers in. The gaming industry needs these kind of games. I haven't read one single argument as to how these games are actually hurting the industry. Come on. Enlighten us.



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Chrizum said:

These games are succesful in making money, they are qualiity games (anyone claiming CoD or AC isn't quality is out of touch with reality) and they bring gaming into the mainstream bringing millions of new customers in. The gaming industry needs these kind of games. I haven't read one single argument as to how these games are actually hurting the industry. Come on. Enlighten us.

I don't think anyone here is arguing these games aren't quility games; the argument goes that the big AAA overbloated games is hurting the industry. The industry didn't need these kind of games the lest gen; why is it that they are needed now? Here, read badgenomes post here. It's really good: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5701065



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:
Chrizum said:

These games are succesful in making money, they are qualiity games (anyone claiming CoD or AC isn't quality is out of touch with reality) and they bring gaming into the mainstream bringing millions of new customers in. The gaming industry needs these kind of games. I haven't read one single argument as to how these games are actually hurting the industry. Come on. Enlighten us.

I don't think anyone here is arguing these games aren't quility games; the argument goes that the big AAA overbloated games is hurting the industry. The industry didn't need these kind of games the lest gen; why is it that they are needed now? Here, read badgenomes post here. It's really good: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5701065

I agree with Badgenome, not only because he makes good points but also because he is extremely sexy and I want to have his babies.

Nothing he said points to big AAA "overbloated"(whatever that means) games hurting the industry though. His main argument is that too many publishers aim for the same, narrowly defined target audience, while there are countless other audiences being underserved. This is true. Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed obviously aim for the right market because they are extremely succesful. It's just that too many publishers literaly try to make the next Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed while they ideally should be more inventive and aware of what the audience wants.

Meanwhile, all the flak Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed and GTA get for being "too big" is completely unfounded. There is no such thing. It's not their fault other publishers (mainly EA) aren't inventive and flexible enough to adapt. If there is any argument to be made here, I'd really like to hear it.



Chrizum said:
DanneSandin said:
Chrizum said:

These games are succesful in making money, they are qualiity games (anyone claiming CoD or AC isn't quality is out of touch with reality) and they bring gaming into the mainstream bringing millions of new customers in. The gaming industry needs these kind of games. I haven't read one single argument as to how these games are actually hurting the industry. Come on. Enlighten us.

I don't think anyone here is arguing these games aren't quility games; the argument goes that the big AAA overbloated games is hurting the industry. The industry didn't need these kind of games the lest gen; why is it that they are needed now? Here, read badgenomes post here. It's really good: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5701065

I agree with Badgenome, not only because he makes good points but also because he is extremely sexy and I want to have his babies.

That makes two of us ;)


Nothing he said points to big AAA "overbloated"(whatever that means) games hurting the industry though. His main argument is that too many publishers aim for the same, narrowly defined target audience, while there are countless other audiences being underserved. This is true. Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed obviously aim for the right market because they are extremely succesful. It's just that too many publishers literaly try to make the next Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed while they ideally should be more inventive and aware of what the audience wants.

I agree with badgenome, and with yours extended thoughts expressed above. However, that's NOT the argument of the OP - to which I was refering to.

Meanwhile, all the flak Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed and GTA get for being "too big" is completely unfounded. There is no such thing. It's not their fault other publishers (mainly EA) aren't inventive and flexible enough to adapt. If there is any argument to be made here, I'd really like to hear it.

While I can only partly agree with this, I think the solution for mid-tier games is to seek their fortunes with other audiences. Stay away from the CoD/AC formula and make something else. I would say that Xenoblade is some sort of a mid-tier game (it isn't AAA, that's for sure), and that game has almost sold 1m units - bespite late localizasing and few copies being shipped. 





I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:
Chrizum said:

These games are succesful in making money, they are qualiity games (anyone claiming CoD or AC isn't quality is out of touch with reality) and they bring gaming into the mainstream bringing millions of new customers in. The gaming industry needs these kind of games. I haven't read one single argument as to how these games are actually hurting the industry. Come on. Enlighten us.

I don't think anyone here is arguing these games aren't quility games; the argument goes that the big AAA overbloated games is hurting the industry. The industry didn't need these kind of games the lest gen; why is it that they are needed now? Here, read badgenomes post here. It's really good: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5701065


umm GTA was massive last gen as well, and there were plenty of megafranchises of the past the likes of Final Fantasy, Tony Hawk, Guitar Hero, Need For Speed, Medal of Honor, Super Mario Bros, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Halo, Gran Turismo. Gaming history is filled with megafranchises that dominate the sales charts and as gaming has got bigger so have the big games. Well actually GTA is about the same as last gen San Andreas sold over 20 million copies on the PS2 alone and Vice City was 16m.

Ajusted for inflation Final Fantasy on the PS1 actually is likely not that far off modern AAA monaliths with FF VII waying in at $45m ($65.57m in todays money) production (not counting marketing and VII had the biggest marketing campaign of any game at the time so that would be no small chunk of change) and IX at $40m (again just production in todays money $56m). Compared to COD at $40-50m production (as of Modern Warfare 2) that is pretty insane considering that COD regularly sells more than double what VII sold. Lucky those mega budgets didn't kill the industry eh?



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zarx said:
DanneSandin said:
Chrizum said:

These games are succesful in making money, they are qualiity games (anyone claiming CoD or AC isn't quality is out of touch with reality) and they bring gaming into the mainstream bringing millions of new customers in. The gaming industry needs these kind of games. I haven't read one single argument as to how these games are actually hurting the industry. Come on. Enlighten us.

I don't think anyone here is arguing these games aren't quility games; the argument goes that the big AAA overbloated games is hurting the industry. The industry didn't need these kind of games the lest gen; why is it that they are needed now? Here, read badgenomes post here. It's really good: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5701065


umm GTA was massive last gen as well, and there were plenty of megafranchises of the past the likes of Final Fantasy, Tony Hawk, Guitar Hero, Need For Speed, Medal of Honor, Super Mario Bros, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Halo, Gran Turismo. Gaming history is filled with megafranchises that dominate the sales charts and as gaming has got bigger so have the big games. Well actually GTA is about the same as last gen San Andreas sold over 20 million copies on the PS2 alone and Vice City was 16m.

Ajusted for inflation Final Fantasy on the PS1 actually is likely not that far off modern AAA monaliths with FF VII waying in at $45m ($65.57m in todays money) production (not counting marketing and VII had the biggest marketing campaign of any game at the time so that would be no small chunk of change) and IX at $40m (again just production in todays money $56m). Compared to COD at $40-50m production (as of Modern Warfare 2) that is pretty insane considering that COD regularly sells more than double what VII sold. Lucky those mega budgets didn't kill the industry eh?

There is a big difference between the AAA games of today and those of yesterday. The AAA games of today costs sooo much more to make, generally speaking, and that have pushed the budgets for the AA games as well, this in turn have cased a lot of publishers and studios to close because they didn't get their investments back.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:

There is a big difference between the AAA games of today and those of yesterday. The AAA games of today costs sooo much more to make, generally speaking, and that have pushed the budgets for the AA games as well, this in turn have cased a lot of publishers and studios to close because they didn't get their investments back.

I've tried 3 times to write something yet each time get stuck in my own words, so I'll put is simply. Times have changed, puzzle games in the PS1 era had 10 people making them and sold at £40. FFVIII had maybe 100 people working on it and it sold for £40 a copy. FF8 will sell more and make money but the puzzle game will also sell enough to make money.

PS2 era was the inbetween, everything was still charged at £40.

Now, we have inflated budgets because of online (so server costs) and higher quality that we consumers demand yet we don't want to pay more, we expect £40. Puzzle games are are £5-10 on PSN/XBL. High costs for bigger games means less profits, now RRP for smaller games mean less profits.

The mid-tier games (no idea what that actually means anymore) are surely games like Xenoblade, fighting games like Tekken or good handheld games which will sell for a profit. 

AA games are the ones that fail, true big budget games usually have the backing of dedicated fans. Yet some games are expected to reach as close to they can to this AAA quality with limited budgets, they spend more to get there and when they fail, people wonder why.

 

I still don't know what I'm writing. I have it in my head... must be a bad day.



Hmm, pie.

DanneSandin said:

There is a big difference between the AAA games of today and those of yesterday. The AAA games of today costs sooo much more to make, generally speaking, and that have pushed the budgets for the AA games as well, this in turn have cased a lot of publishers and studios to close because they didn't get their investments back.


The market is bigger today COD sells 20m units every year, GTA V sold 18m their budgets are more than justified. Just because badly run businesses think they can throw the same kind of money at a smilar game and get the same sales doesn't make that a bad thing. Plenty of games are still successful with smaller budgets, and there is more veriaty in the types and sizes of games today than ever before. Bad investments are bad investments, plenty of studios went bankrupt in the past as well. Huge investments that end in massive flops aren't new just look at ET for the Atari an estimated US$125 million total budget across licensing, marketing, development and production including 5 million expensive carts most of which ended up buried in the deasert, now that is something that harmed the industry.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

The obsession for big-budget games filled with the same themes - crime, gore, shooting, war - is really really bad for the industry.
There´s a good part of consumers who really want new experiences, new ideas and flexibility.
Those type of games are not aimed to all videogame audience and that audience alone (the dumbly called "hardcore gamer") can´t sustain the industry. There´s no room for so many expensive productions. Square published games are a great example.



I think people need to remember games like COD and GTA are the few games people actually think are worth 60 bucks these days.

A lot of the smaller games are sold for under 60 bucks after a few weeks and are then mostly tried by gamers in the used game market.

I can't recall the last time I paid 60+ bucks for a game apart from GTA and COD.


Thing is people know that GTA 5 is a game that is worth the 60 bucks as it will provide tons and tons of gameplay.
While smaller games are different but do not have that massive epic scope to justify the same price.

Point is if you have everything at the same price, the stuff that seems more "fun" or epic will get chosen.

Sure AC is the same gameplay but each game has a whole new world attached to it and it has a pretty interesting story.

COD is the same thing I agree, but the game offers a lot... a 5-hour Campaign which is a bit over the top but quite better then the likes of other Shooter games, Zombie or Extras Mode and a very popular Multiplayer.

So people need to realize Indie games that are different can't simply compete against these games selling at the same price.