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Forums - General Discussion - America is ungrateful...

dsoverpsp on 11 February 2008

I just heard on the news that the terrorist are training US ppl. for the next terror attack...
this can't be good....



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Kasz216 on 11 February 2008
redspear said:
Kasz216 said:
Moongoddess256 said:
Bursche said:
Mnementh said:
Bursche said:
...

And just because he recieved the popular vote doesnt mean he couldve handled 9/11 better. I guarantee we would not have went into Afghanistan if he was in office, and Al Quada would still have it under its grasps. Theres a reason why the media never says anything about Afghanistan, because it is a better place now and who wants to hear the good news right?


Here in europe is Afghanistan regularly in the media. For the ongoing fights, for terrorists attacks, for ongoing Taliban influence and for the record year for drug-farmers. Admitted, Iraq makes it to the media more often, but Afghanistan has it's media-coverage. As I said, hear in euope. Possibly american media don't cover the failures there. But the US-government knows about that and wants more german troops in Afghanistan.


Yea in the US it gets almost no coverage at all. The last time I heard it was going good, elections and taliban were under control. The opium is very much a problem, I just never hear any bad news about it thusly why i believed it was under better circumstances. I eat the crow.


The lack of coverage of that in the US is just plain creepy. I've always wondered if things were going on there that we were just unaware of.

Eh i wouldn't say it's creepy. Just that Iraq is worse. Once we pull out of Iraq the media will pound on Afghanistan with the same fury.

 


What is happening in Afghaiastan and Pakistan is far worse than Iraq. The problems that we caused there and our decision not to rebuild or improve the infrastructure there is a massive failure and itisn't the first time we did this in that area. Afghanistan is an extremely impoverished nation and a place that is rife with instability.


That's different from Iraq how...

Ok i'll put it this way.  Afghanistan is more everyones fault.

It's not as easy to get everyone behind the problems in Afghanistan because everyone wanted to go there.  While Iraq everyone can blame Bush for knowingly falsefying intellegence reports.  Or using knowingly false intellegence reports.  (Or just being stupid enough to take the one needle in a haystack of conflicting evidence)

Iraq is just the hot button issue right now.  I'm sure Afghanistan will get brought up once Iraq is fixed.  Of course whoever is president then may likely be blamed for it.



L.C.E.C. on 11 February 2008

At first they were 2 seperate topics,

But then Bingoo Said:

"Im under 18 and ive had sex, and guess what no consequences. Just because your beliefs state this does not mean they are right, you are completely intertwining religion and politics, not everyone has the same religion of you."

Then, I was responding to another user who lumped the 2 topics together. I wasn't lumping them toghether, only responding to his lumped-together BS.




Retrasado on 11 February 2008
Moongoddess256 said:
hahaha bush supporters. Seriously, this war is pointless. It doesn't benefit us. I might agree more with a war that wasn't draining us. A war we can win and get the spoils from. But this... its just vietnam all over again. A war we can't win... a waste of energy, resources, and lives. Just replace "communists" with "terrorists"

So our economy is going downhill, we are making the rest of the world hate us, we are throwing away our wealth...

If you CARED about this country you would be a bit more willing to protect our country where it matters. You know, the things that take place on our own soil. Bush has taken focus off of our own home.

As for the arguments on social issues, Abortion should be legal due to the fact that it is purely a religious debate. The fetus only has a soul at the conception if you are religious. If you aren't religious you would believe it would only be its own individual once its nervous system has developed to levels beyond that of a jellyfish. Partial birth abortion is ALREADY illegal and if an abortion takes place during first trimester to the scientifically thinking people out there that is not murder at all.

Remember guys, separation of church and state.

just out of curiosity, could you please tell me where the Constitution establishes "separation of church and state?" I'll even post a link to the official transcript from the National Archives.

The Constitution:
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_transcript.html

The Bill of Rights:
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights.html

The other 17 amendments:
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

Just fyi and to save you the trouble of reading through the whole Constitution, "separation of church and state" does not exist. It is not mentioned in any way in the First Amendment or anywhere else in the Constitution. Also, I highly doubt the Founding Fathers would approve of the way "separation of church and state" is being implemented today because a majority of them believed in God very strongly. If you don't believe me on the last statement, try reading the text of the Declaration of Independence.
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Note especially the highlighted portions of the introduction to the Declaration:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

So please don't throw "separation of church and state" at me while defending abortion. 

 

 



Not trying to be a fanboy. Of course, it's hard when you own the best console eve... dang it

Vertigo-X on 11 February 2008
 

just out of curiosity, could you please tell me where the Constitution establishes "separation of church and state?" I'll even post a link to the official transcript from the National Archives.

The Constitution:
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_transcript.html

The Bill of Rights:
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights.html

The other 17 amendments:
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

Just fyi and to save you the trouble of reading through the whole Constitution, "separation of church and state" does not exist. It is not mentioned in any way in the First Amendment or anywhere else in the Constitution. Also, I highly doubt the Founding Fathers would approve of the way "separation of church and state" is being implemented today because a majority of them believed in God very strongly. If you don't believe me on the last statement, try reading the text of the Declaration of Independence.
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Note especially the highlighted portions of the introduction to the Declaration:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

So please don't throw "separation of church and state" at me while defending abortion.

 

 


 Not that I'm defending it but Jefferson was the one who said it. And yes, the way it's being handled now is atrocious. I imagine he simply meant for the government to not play favorites.



The BuShA owns all!

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Moongoddess256 on 11 February 2008

Because if we didn't separate church and state we would be a theocracy now wouldn't we? I didn't cite anything for "separation of church and state" so you can not attack me on that.

We are a democratic republic
We are a federation

no where in the describing terms of our government would anyone want to consider us a theocracy.

Also, Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

That is the line that establishes a separation of church and state. Its just in different words, but it means the exact same thing. Did you expect me to not know that or did you not realize this yourself?



[2:08:58 am] Moongoddess256: being asian makes you naturally good at ddr
[2:09:22 am] gnizmo: its a weird genetic thing
[2:09:30 am] gnizmo: goes back to hunting giant crabs in feudal Japan

redspear on 11 February 2008
Kasz216 said:
That's different from Iraq how...

Ok i'll put it this way.  Afghanistan is more everyones fault.

It's not as easy to get everyone behind the problems in Afghanistan because everyone wanted to go there.  While Iraq everyone can blame Bush for knowingly falsefying intellegence reports.  Or using knowingly false intellegence reports.  (Or just being stupid enough to take the one needle in a haystack of conflicting evidence)

Iraq is just the hot button issue right now.  I'm sure Afghanistan will get brought up once Iraq is fixed.  Of course whoever is president then may likely be blamed for it.


Iraq actually has an infrastructure it has highways, and industry and it has a middle class and resources and it even has history. Iraq is going through a power vacuum now and we f'd it up pretty bad and made it a more chaotic place true but at least there is a foundation to rebuild there. Afghanistan does not have any real highways a few roads it is a place where a truly oppressive fundamental regime can thrive(I know people will say Iran and it is true to a certain extent except that even in Iran the outside world seeps in there is some money there and there are resources). Than there is Afghanistans relationship with a nuclear power like packistan.