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Forums - Politics Discussion - If medical coverage is not a necessity, what is it?

richardhutnik said:
Kantor said:
sales2099 said:
This is why I like living in Canada. Taxed up the ass, but hey, free medical care.

The US government spends more on healthcare per capita than Canada does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_health_care_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States

So it's more that the USA has a horrifically inefficient system than any lack of funding.

The USA gets a fairly poor bang for the buck for its healthcare.  In the political debates, this will often get ignored behind mantras of "America has the best healthcare in the world!", and individuals like Rush Limbaugh who argues that individuals can afford to take out loans the size of the cost of half a SUV to pay for a procedure if needed.  I even seen an argument where the rest of the world needs to be more like the United States, because America is leading in innovation, and the rest of the world gets a free ride on its medical advances.

America does have the best healthcare in the world. It also has the world healthcare system of all developed countries.

It's worth noting that Singapore's healthcare market is far less regulated, and far more efficient and successful.



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Kantor said:
richardhutnik said:
Kantor said:
sales2099 said:
This is why I like living in Canada. Taxed up the ass, but hey, free medical care.

The US government spends more on healthcare per capita than Canada does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_health_care_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States

So it's more that the USA has a horrifically inefficient system than any lack of funding.

The USA gets a fairly poor bang for the buck for its healthcare.  In the political debates, this will often get ignored behind mantras of "America has the best healthcare in the world!", and individuals like Rush Limbaugh who argues that individuals can afford to take out loans the size of the cost of half a SUV to pay for a procedure if needed.  I even seen an argument where the rest of the world needs to be more like the United States, because America is leading in innovation, and the rest of the world gets a free ride on its medical advances.

America does have the best healthcare in the world. It also has the world healthcare system of all developed countries.

It's worth noting that Singapore's healthcare market is far less regulated, and far more efficient and successful.

Well, maybe you can edit Wikipedia on here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore

It also looks like, as per Wikipedia, that Singapore has a nationalized health system with price controls in place.  Am I missing something?

What is seen here is the cost signals to people, so they get an idea what things costs.  And if that is what is harped about, it would be useful to adopt.  Very possibly insurance companies and the medical industry doesn't want these costs to be known, so that people will end up just getting what they say.



richardhutnik said:
thranx said:
I have lived with out healthcare for 15 years now and i haven't had any issues. Never been turned away by a doctor, i am still in good health, I have had all my dental work done. Doesn't seem to be a neccessity for me. I know I can't live with out food, shelter, and water for that long.

My story is, before I was on Medicaid, I was getting free healthcare at a clinic.  I needed surgery on my back.  They were unable to pay for the anastesia. I was about to get Medicaid and then get the surgery paid for.  Without the surgery, I would of been laid up like a cripple for life, unable to work and in pain.  But, because of the delays in getting the surgery done, I likely have permanent nerve damage to my foot (I have numb spot there).  So, I can see you getting basics, but not sure how you would go about getting surgery, if you needed it, following what you follow.


Not sure how that'd be different in universal healthcare.  With delays being one of the big negatives of it.



richardhutnik said:
Kantor said:
sales2099 said:
This is why I like living in Canada. Taxed up the ass, but hey, free medical care.

The US government spends more on healthcare per capita than Canada does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_health_care_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States

So it's more that the USA has a horrifically inefficient system than any lack of funding.

The USA gets a fairly poor bang for the buck for its healthcare.  In the political debates, this will often get ignored behind mantras of "America has the best healthcare in the world!", and individuals like Rush Limbaugh who argues that individuals can afford to take out loans the size of the cost of half a SUV to pay for a procedure if needed.  I even seen an argument where the rest of the world needs to be more like the United States, because America is leading in innovation, and the rest of the world gets a free ride on its medical advances.


Which is true... have you actually seen the figures on medical research spending?  Or where basically all advanced medical treatment is upgraded?

It's basically all American teaching hospitals.

 

I mean hell, the US government spends more on medical technology then most other countries do.  Using Biotechnology as an example... in 2006 the US is responsible for 82% of all R&D research.  82%!

Why?   New technology isn't as much of a cost for them.

What is the benefit for David Cameron to fund improvements in MRI machines and scalpels?  

So that his big breakthrough can cost the NHS way more money when they have to upgrade?

To provide health benefits to the public that they don't realize they're missing because they don't exist yet?


Coincidentally, ever since Obamacare passed... money spent on medica research?   Way down, both privately and through the government.  Still pretty damn high though.



Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
thranx said:
I have lived with out healthcare for 15 years now and i haven't had any issues. Never been turned away by a doctor, i am still in good health, I have had all my dental work done. Doesn't seem to be a neccessity for me. I know I can't live with out food, shelter, and water for that long.

My story is, before I was on Medicaid, I was getting free healthcare at a clinic.  I needed surgery on my back.  They were unable to pay for the anastesia. I was about to get Medicaid and then get the surgery paid for.  Without the surgery, I would of been laid up like a cripple for life, unable to work and in pain.  But, because of the delays in getting the surgery done, I likely have permanent nerve damage to my foot (I have numb spot there).  So, I can see you getting basics, but not sure how you would go about getting surgery, if you needed it, following what you follow.


Not sure how that'd be different in universal healthcare.  With delays being one of the big negatives of it.

Difference is that I got the surgery.  My being on Medicaid is like universal healthcare, and it means I get regular visits to doctors and so on.



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richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
thranx said:
I have lived with out healthcare for 15 years now and i haven't had any issues. Never been turned away by a doctor, i am still in good health, I have had all my dental work done. Doesn't seem to be a neccessity for me. I know I can't live with out food, shelter, and water for that long.

My story is, before I was on Medicaid, I was getting free healthcare at a clinic.  I needed surgery on my back.  They were unable to pay for the anastesia. I was about to get Medicaid and then get the surgery paid for.  Without the surgery, I would of been laid up like a cripple for life, unable to work and in pain.  But, because of the delays in getting the surgery done, I likely have permanent nerve damage to my foot (I have numb spot there).  So, I can see you getting basics, but not sure how you would go about getting surgery, if you needed it, following what you follow.


Not sure how that'd be different in universal healthcare.  With delays being one of the big negatives of it.

Difference is that I got the surgery.  My being on Medicaid is like universal healthcare, and it means I get regular visits to doctors and so on.


My point was, chances are your surgery would of been delayed anyway.



richardhutnik said:
papamudd said:
Since obama had been in office i pay more for less coverage...

Are you saying this, because it has still been going on, or it didn't happen before Obama got in office?

I believe healthcare costs have been rising for decades now (one example going back to 2002):

http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/11/news/economy/healthcare_costs_family/index.htm


It's not just that.  If you have lower level health insurance, all the new requirements makes it more expensive to get less covered because they have to have specific coverage for once in a million shots.  (Cases in which it would be better for most to just go into bankruptcy.)

The only reason it isn't extremely noticeable is that Obamacare was passed in the middle of a time where healthcare cost increases were already sloping.

 

Outside of the most regulated states, they're all predicting Obamacare will greatly increase insurance costs in the exchange.  The PR Line lately has been that "It won't be as expensive as everyone projected."

Which, of course it won't... because like I mentioned, we've been in a curve of insurance premium increases decreasing, so they have a nice donward trend they're fighting.



I don't want to say which is better or worse, but I live in a mostly socialistic country ( Belgium ) We have a "mutuelle" which is the equivalent of insurance but partially subsidised by our (very high) taxes . ( as high as 60% of our revenue ). and it kinda works.
I have a genetic defect in my kidneys, which mean I have to go to the hospital every year for a full checkup. An MRI here costs like 80€, my visits in hospitals ( 1-2 days) rarely exceeds 200€.
and my mutuelle which includes dental twice a year too costs 20€ every three months.

the most I had to wait for exams was like 1 day, And it was because it wasnt an emergency.

http://www.expatica.com/be/health_fitness/healthcare/belgian-healthcare-system-1493_8299.html I've found a link to somebody explaining better than I do. Sorry for my english, i'm a native french speaker.

I find it weird for people to go bankrupt over medical difficulties though.



The Fury said:
SlayerRondo said:
sales2099 said:
This is why I like living in Canada. Taxed up the ass, but hey, free medical care.

At the cost of time and money the Canadian, along with most other medical systems suffers from poor competition as a result of people not caring about the cost. 

Consider me a stupid British citizen happy to pay into a system that provides care when I (or any member of my family) need it regardless of problem but how is countries having an NHS bad for competition? especially when the idea of competition in healthcare is rediculous to me.

NHS spend what money they can to provide the best service they can and don't worry about if insurance companies 'pay up' or a sick person has the correct type of insurance. If you want to pay more, we have BUPA.

This said, I may be misunderstanding your point.

The fact that the idea of competition in healthcare is so rediculous for you and most other people is why the medical industry has no incentive to bring cost down to compete when people don't pay attention to the cost as either the government pays or the insurance company pays.

Both government and insurance companies make it so that people have no control over their medical cost as they can't stop other people from frivilously going to the doctors costing them taxes and higher premiums. Without cost to the individual their will be no incentive to shop arround for a lower price and thus medcial cost and as a result for Canadians tax rates are higher than they should be.

There is also no incentive for restraint so wait times for doctors in Canada are much longer than in the US with the expetion on pets who can receive private medical care in Canada and thus have less waiting time.

I only have medical coverage for serious injury and conditions and pay for the small everyday expenses myself when they arise resulting in lower cost overall to myself.

If you're happy to have the government pay for your medical care that's fine but people should have the option to opt out in return for tax offsets to use for private health insurance of their choosing or to pay for medical expenses as they come.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

It SHOULD be a basic human RIGHT. Anything less isn't good enough for me.