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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Remind me again why online multiplayer matters.

richardhutnik on 03 September 2013
attaboy said:
richardhutnik said:

Sorry, I am not sold on online multiplayer as a big deal.

I wil add here, if you have friends remotely, it is nice to be able to play with them.  But beyond this, I don't get it.

Online multiplayer is made out to be some sort of critical feature.  But try firing up some sort of minor title or older title and watch there be little people to play online with.  If it is a big title, you get a bunch.  Otherwise, you could likely not run into anyone.

Then, you do find someone.  If you aren't running into immature jerks who throw insults around, you get experience like I did with the original Borderlands.  I found a rare person online to play, and did a game.  I was then facing abusive language because he didn't like me.  Then, he gives me a hacked shield that made me indestructable pretty much, ruining Borderlands for me.

So, pardon me here.  I just don't get the big deal with online multiplayer at all.  What is the appeal of finding people I don't know online and playing them, and hoping the experience is decent.  Apparently Microsoft, and Sony, now feels that I would need to pay for all this.  And with Microsoft, I have the distinct feeling that I am to drag my friends into their world, as they do squat to really enable people to meet others through their service.  Seriously here, why am I going to bother dragging anyone into their world?  Sorry, not in the mood.  I would rather play face to face with people and have some sort of social connecting, not this faux Facebook style nonsense of lack of human interaction.  Like, I do boardgames with people at social get togethers, and that is rewarding, FAR more than what the online pay to play world does.

Hey, maybe I am missing something awesome here.  If so, feel free to post a counterpoint below.


Quotes OP before edits are made (hopefully!)

I added this paragraph to the top of the post, to clarify where I am coming from:

Edit: Note that this initial post comes from my personal bias as someone who seeks to be involved with, and build, online community for gamer, and gets sick of the whole Facebook approach of people not really knowing anyone but acting as voyeurs and exhibitionists.  People show no ability to post context in regards to what they share with others from an interest standpoint.  Also, I have little room in my life for just doing online.  I am dire need of finding work and improving my personal network.  And I am frustrated at what I see is not caring.  Heck, I am annoyed I can't even get a retro gaming forum here, and if you see me repeatedly requesting myself get banned, it comes out of all that.  Anyhow, with this bias in mind, and my interest in having real community, read the post below.  This is an edit add to my initial post for clarity.



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richardhutnik on 03 September 2013
para182 said:
Just gives more time to be put into a game... You can't just keep playing single player over and over it will get boring..online brings more value to the game, if you are paying $60 for single player than something is wrong...very few games can bring out that full value on single player...there is a few that can like ''The Last of Us''.

I know where you are coming from on games like borderlands with the mods but you can simply drop the weapons / shield if you ever get one....plenty of fun online coop games out there.

Games like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Halo 4 have to focus on the online because the single player can be very repetitive like the games before them.

Try out some games like L4D, you will enjoy the online to it....also GTA 5 is looking great as far as online goes.

I am currently without a current gen console, and just have a 3DS.  My stuff doesn't have online play and now i would have to get a console.  But, with money tight, I just don't see it worth my while.  So, with there needing to be a conscious decision on my part to do this, I am in a position to question it.  I do have the chance to get something like brettspielwelt.de going, but that is random players from Europe who end up barking at me to hurry up, along with other new players.  My issue with the online play for the boardgame stuff, is I can't seem to find any players.  All I get is disembodied people who act as wetwork AIs.  It isn't social at all, nowhere near the same level as in person actually.  So, I am now at a place, based on people here of both getting a console again AND also paying an annual subscription fee.  Is like $500 or more worth it?

I also did find L4D pretty cool to play with others via offline play.  GTA5 really isn't my cup of tea, as I am not really interested in random mayhem or robbing banks or stealing cars.



attaboy on 03 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
attaboy said:


Quotes OP before edits are made (hopefully!)

I added this paragraph to the top of the post, to clarify where I am coming from:

Edit: Note that this initial post comes from my personal bias as someone who seeks to be involved with, and build, online community for gamer, and gets sick of the whole Facebook approach of people not really knowing anyone but acting as voyeurs and exhibitionists.  People show no ability to post context in regards to what they share with others from an interest standpoint.  Also, I have little room in my life for just doing online.  I am dire need of finding work and improving my personal network.  And I am frustrated at what I see is not caring.  Heck, I am annoyed I can't even get a retro gaming forum here, and if you see me repeatedly requesting myself get banned, it comes out of all that.  Anyhow, with this bias in mind, and my interest in having real community, read the post below.  This is an edit add to my initial post for clarity.

Wow.  Way to make me sympathize with you as a person and see things from your point of view.  :(



Slimebeast on 03 September 2013
para182 said:

Just gives more time to be put into a game... You can't just keep playing single player over and over it will get boring..online brings more value to the game, if you are paying $60 for single player then something is wrong...very few games can bring out that full value on single player...there is a few that can like ''The Last of Us''.
 
I know where you are coming from on games like borderlands with the mods but you can simply drop the weapons / shield if you ever get one....plenty of fun online coop games out there, just find some people with mics that play legitimately and have fun. 

Games like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Halo 4 have to focus on the online because the single player can be very repetitive like the games before them.

Try out some games like L4D, you will enjoy the online to it....also GTA 5 is looking great as far as online goes.

It's funny but some person online destroyed Borderlands for me too, just like it did to the OP.

I went online because I already thought the game was boring, I admit, but once there it got completely destroyed since this guy gave me high level weapons that made me invincible.

You can't just say "just drop the powerful weapons then", because that goes against all your instincts as a competitive gamer. Self-imposed restrictions to make a game challenging are hard. That's why I think it's extremely important that game developers don't dumb down games, and make sure there's complexity and challenge for people who want that experience.



Suke on 03 September 2013

Replay-ability and competition :/



“Don’t follow the hype, follow the games”

— 

Here a little quote I want for those to keep memorize in your head for this coming next gen.                            

 By: Suke
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richardhutnik on 03 September 2013
Slimebeast said:
para182 said:

Just gives more time to be put into a game... You can't just keep playing single player over and over it will get boring..online brings more value to the game, if you are paying $60 for single player then something is wrong...very few games can bring out that full value on single player...there is a few that can like ''The Last of Us''.
 
I know where you are coming from on games like borderlands with the mods but you can simply drop the weapons / shield if you ever get one....plenty of fun online coop games out there, just find some people with mics that play legitimately and have fun. 

Games like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Halo 4 have to focus on the online because the single player can be very repetitive like the games before them.

Try out some games like L4D, you will enjoy the online to it....also GTA 5 is looking great as far as online goes.

It's funny but some person online destroyed Borderlands for me too, just like it did to the OP.

I went online because I already thought the game was boring, I admit, but once there it got completely destroyed since this guy gave me high level weapons that made me invincible.

You can't just say "just drop the powerful weapons then", because that goes against all your instincts as a competitive gamer. Self-imposed restrictions to make a game challenging are hard. That's why I think it's extremely important that game developers don't dumb down games, and make sure there's complexity and challenge for people who want that experience.

I was expecting to find someone I could partner my character with to be able to take on Moxxi's arena.  The guy then abuses my intelligence, questioning my ability to play.  He then goes and tells me to take this shield.  He must of wanted a more powerful drone to help him level up.  Thing is, a shield is worse than a more powerful weapon, because it means you can't die.  And then going against the final boss boss they added, that was hard, I couldn't do enough damage, nor could I end up dying.  It became akin to throwing rocks against the wall.

What I find, it seems at best, you get people acting as smarter bots to play.  Unless my drive is to build up my ego by defeating others, I just don't see much difference.  Bots give me enough challenge, if that is what I am after.



DeadNotSleeping on 03 September 2013
richardhutnik said:

Edit: Note that this initial post comes from my personal bias as someone who seeks to be involved with, and build, online community for gamer, and gets sick of the whole Facebook approach of people not really knowing anyone but acting as voyeurs and exhibitionists.  People show no ability to post context in regards to what they share with others from an interest standpoint.  Also, I have little room in my life for just doing online.  I am dire need of finding work and improving my personal network.  And I am frustrated at what I see is not caring.  Heck, I am annoyed I can't even get a retro gaming forum here, and if you see me repeatedly requesting myself get banned, it comes out of all that.  Anyhow, with this bias in mind, and my interest in having real community, read the post below.  This is an edit add to my initial post for clarity.

 

Sorry, I am not sold on online multiplayer as a big deal.

I wil add here, if you have friends remotely, it is nice to be able to play with them.  But beyond this, I don't get it.

Online multiplayer is made out to be some sort of critical feature.  But try firing up some sort of minor title or older title and watch there be little people to play online with.  If it is a big title, you get a bunch.  Otherwise, you could likely not run into anyone.

Then, you do find someone.  If you aren't running into immature jerks who throw insults around, you get experience like I did with the original Borderlands.  I found a rare person online to play, and did a game.  I was then facing abusive language because he didn't like me.  Then, he gives me a hacked shield that made me indestructable pretty much, ruining Borderlands for me.

So, pardon me here.  I just don't get the big deal with online multiplayer at all.  What is the appeal of finding people I don't know online and playing them, and hoping the experience is decent.  Apparently Microsoft, and Sony, now feels that I would need to pay for all this.  And with Microsoft, I have the distinct feeling that I am to drag my friends into their world, as they do squat to really enable people to meet others through their service.  Seriously here, why am I going to bother dragging anyone into their world?  Sorry, not in the mood.  I would rather play face to face with people and have some sort of social connecting, not this faux Facebook style nonsense of lack of human interaction.  Like, I do boardgames with people at social get togethers, and that is rewarding, FAR more than what the online pay to play world does.

Hey, maybe I am missing something awesome here.  If so, feel free to post a counterpoint below.

Video games don't matter. Consoles don't matter.  They are for recreational use and some people don't like playing alone or are dissatisfied with the limitations of the single-player experience.  Online features offer a level of connectivity that is status quo in modern civilization, it also serves to add replay value for games.  By offering them, it broadens the appeal of the title and increases the chances of commercial success, which is vital for publishers and the industry in general.



richardhutnik on 03 September 2013
attaboy said:
richardhutnik said:
attaboy said:
 


Quotes OP before edits are made (hopefully!)

I added this paragraph to the top of the post, to clarify where I am coming from:

Edit: Note that this initial post comes from my personal bias as someone who seeks to be involved with, and build, online community for gamer, and gets sick of the whole Facebook approach of people not really knowing anyone but acting as voyeurs and exhibitionists.  People show no ability to post context in regards to what they share with others from an interest standpoint.  Also, I have little room in my life for just doing online.  I am dire need of finding work and improving my personal network.  And I am frustrated at what I see is not caring.  Heck, I am annoyed I can't even get a retro gaming forum here, and if you see me repeatedly requesting myself get banned, it comes out of all that.  Anyhow, with this bias in mind, and my interest in having real community, read the post below.  This is an edit add to my initial post for clarity.

Wow.  Way to make me sympathize with you as a person and see things from your point of view.  :(

Pardon my not reading the tone right, if I failed.  I can take it as I didin't explain correctly and seem to have contempt for others, and you are sad I failed.  Or you did pick it up, and see my issues, and end up feeling sad about it.  I do have tons of challenges, so I can say that what you did likely means both, and it does.   



Akvod on 03 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
Akvod said:
Because humans are way more sophisticated than any AI.

When you think about it, that's really the issue with a lot of games. The challenge doesn't really come from the enemy being more skilled than you, but always something I consider to be "cheap".

In the Total War series for example, the AI can't manage finance for shit, so they're given free money. In a lot of shooters, you're fighting alone against numerous enemies. Bosses have special abilities, etc.

The qualities of a good multiplayer is what makes multiplayer more fun than singleplayer IMO:

1) Balance
2) Options

Balance forces everyone on the same level field, and rewards skill over stats. Options makes multiplayer dynamic and fresh with every game.

Whereas in single player there's one optimal strategy (get X item, level up to this, follow this exact path), multiplayer is a constant cat and mouse game.

Note I said ONLINE multiplayer.  And I was primarily talking about matchmaking systems where you get matched up with people you don't even know.  I did tip a hat to cases where you are long distance from people you know and it is difficult to get together.  As I said:

I wil add here, if you have friends remotely, it is nice to be able to play with them.  But beyond this, I don't get it.

As KylieDog said, convenience? 

I think the point you're making is that playing with people you know is fun in and of itself. Even games we normally would find boring, become fun solely because we get to play with friends.

 

Few points:

1) True, friends do make things fun. But that's not just restricted to game. Doing stuff with friends in and of themselves is enjoyable.

2) But that fun is a seperate, mutually exclusive fun. Playing with strangers still offer fun because of what I've mentioned.

3) Like KylieDog said, when you get older, you get busier. When you get home 5-7PM, and have only a few hours left before you need to go to bed (and you have a whole bunch of stuff you need to do, cook, eat, bathe, do other shit) you don't have the time or energy to go to your friend's house and game for a long time (to make the trip worthwhile).

 

We're not fucking grade schoolers, that's why.



dsgrue3 on 03 September 2013

^Pretty much nailed it.

If you value competition, multiplayer is vital. A human is far more capable than any AI, and far less predictable.