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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Indepth Look a Xbox One's 'GPU'

So....technical jargon aside, what exactly does this mean?



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Zappykins said:
Mmmfishtacos said:

You really don't have a sing bit of understanding what cerney is talking about. And it clearly shows. Not only do you not understand you have yet to post a source that back up your claim. I'm done with you till you can have a resonable converstation about the topic. 

Good!  Good!  Cause you aren't adding anything but making me feel really bad for you. You don't seem to understand and keep just saying the same thing over again.

Then you try to make points, and it looks even worse. 

It's just sad.  I feel bad for you.

The Zappykins guide to arguments on the internet:

 

Step 1- Accuse the other person of adding nothing, repeating themselves and demonstrating a lack of understanding on the subject

Step 2- Add nothing, repeat yourself, and demonstrate a lack of understanding on the subject

Step 3- Post some random gifs

Step 4- Profit



ethomaz said:

Like the previous article it wrote a lot of errors... the most notable the GPU/eSRAM clock... MS already confirmed 853Mhz so why he wrote 831Mhz? To fit his maths?

"There is obviously the Radeon GPU, something that sources say is somewhere between an HD6000 and HD7000 in capabilities and a fraction behind what Sony has in the PS4."

Why he is downplaying the GPU? It is obvious the GPU is far way better than HD6000... it is close to a HD7790 (Bonaire) with enhancements.


Really doubt its better than 6950 or 6970... but 6870 sound about right.



Zappykins said:
SvennoJ said:

I have more faith in Sony for sound then MS. The ps3 can handle all audio formats, upto uncompressed 192khz 24bit 7.1 and even transform Dolby True HD to 1.5 mbps DTS optical output on the fly to work with my older amp. MS has some catching up to do, 360 can only handle 640kbps DD 5.1

It would be nice if we get some games with 96/192 khz surround sound with all this dedicated sound hardware.

In regards with your first statement - good luck with that.  My Sherwood receiver has lasted twice as long as my Sony one.  But my Sony speakers are still going strong.  I would agree with the 2nd part if it was completely accurate, but that is only true if go you 2 channel.  I like 5.1 or better - so they are both about the same.  (http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/audiooutput.html)

In response to your second statement.  Yes, I absolutely agree.  I would hope they both do 192 khz sound.

I remember the day I played a CD and an LP back to back.  Even I could hear that the LP sounded better, more 'alive' if you will.  It was a sad day where I felt betrayed by technology.  Those 'old guys with the golden ears' weren't making stuff up.  But I did notice a nice improvement with DVD over CD for sound quality.  Higher sampling rates are better.

I also think 60p is to slow.  If you want to start another thread and we can discuss 120P and 192 khz and how even mere mortal would probably enjoy it better.

I've never owned any sony audio equipment as far as I can remember. I'm sold on Yamaha and B&W for my audio needs.
What do you mean by only if you go 2 channel? I get 5.1 DTS via optical on my Yamaha AX1 and 192/24/7.1 via hdmi on my Yamaha RX-v3800.

Best quality sound for movies on blu-ray so far are Baraka and Samsara (96/24 DTS-HD) and Akira (192/24 Dolby TrueHD) sounds phenomenal, crystal clear surround sound. When I put on a CD after it feels like my speakers are broken. (Luckily Yamaha has a lot of great dsp programs to liven up CD sound, The Bottom Line from New York is my favorite atm)

120p 4k 192/24 sound, now we're talking next-gen. It's possible with pixeljunk type graphics, but it sucks that ps4 and xb1 are stuck with hdmi 1.4, and tvs don't accept true 120hz yet. (well some do with a bit of tinkering http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/)



disolitude said:
ethomaz said:

Like the previous article it wrote a lot of errors... the most notable the GPU/eSRAM clock... MS already confirmed 853Mhz so why he wrote 831Mhz? To fit his maths?

"There is obviously the Radeon GPU, something that sources say is somewhere between an HD6000 and HD7000 in capabilities and a fraction behind what Sony has in the PS4."

Why he is downplaying the GPU? It is obvious the GPU is far way better than HD6000... it is close to a HD7790 (Bonaire) with enhancements.


Really doubt its better than 6950 or 6970... but 6870 sound about right.


It wouldn't even beat a 6870 in theoretical performance, maybe on the same level as a Radeon 5770/6770.
Heck, the Playstation 4's GPU has less theoretical performance than the Radeon 3870 X2 released 5 years ago!

However, that's all theoretical.

The problem with prior generations is that VLIW5 (Very Long Instruction Word) and to a lesser extent VLIW4, was that they were heavily reliant on real-time compilers in order to achieve high levels of utilisation of the 5-wide/4-wide (6 and 5 respectively with a branch) SIMD's to achieve optimal throughput, which was fine, most games heavily used the Direct X 9 render path anyway which suited VLIW5 well.

However, skipping along over the years games started to use Direct X 10 and 11 as the PC's started to leave consoles behind in image quality, which then left AMD's VLIW5 architectures underutilised, usually a single unit out of 5 wasn't being used, so, AMD cut back the VLIW5 design to a VLIW4 design but made each unit in the SIMD more flexible.
Of course some units still weren't being used with the VLIW4 design, but not to an extreme degree, hence why the Radeon 6970 despite having less shaders than the 5870 was still faster in compute, it had less shaders but more shader groups that were being more heavily utilised resulting in higher throughput.

GCN found in the consoles however, took it to the next level, it's a compute focused architecture and it shows, it achieves much higher levels of shader utilisation without as many fancy tricks in order to do so.

That's not even worrying about other parts of the GPU like the ROPS, TMU's or the Geometry engines, there is a stupidly large difference in geometry capability between the 6000 series and 7000 series, I do expect Geometry to be a big focus this generation along with partical effects.

That's also why measuring in flops or theoretical performance is pointless unless you are comparing GPU's of the same Architecture, so many other factors comes into play which can tip that balance.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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yo_john117 said:
So....technical jargon aside, what exactly does this mean?


To me it sounds like what Cerny was saying about the ps4 gpu... "take years to unlock full potential" kind of thing. Also sounds / looks like some major improvements over the GPU custom base they got from AMD to go beyond what most (even AMD) would have expected in terms of performance with that gpu.

I don't really know though, nor really care... just sounds to me like yes better graphics coming next gen with better performance...



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

disolitude said:
ethomaz said:

Like the previous article it wrote a lot of errors... the most notable the GPU/eSRAM clock... MS already confirmed 853Mhz so why he wrote 831Mhz? To fit his maths?

"There is obviously the Radeon GPU, something that sources say is somewhere between an HD6000 and HD7000 in capabilities and a fraction behind what Sony has in the PS4."

Why he is downplaying the GPU? It is obvious the GPU is far way better than HD6000... it is close to a HD7790 (Bonaire) with enhancements.


Really doubt its better than 6950 or 6970... but 6870 sound about right.


The HD6950 and HD6970 are still up to standard when it comes to playing todays game and pretty much anything, they still hold thier own for a last gen card, I'd rather Microsoft would have choosen these gfx card instead, but no.  Anything under the hd7870 and 7850, in fact, anything lower than a 7850 is for light gaming at 1080p, sub-1080p..   

Off Topic: The GTX 650 ti > -HD 7790  its a stonger card yet, is also low end for light gaming @1080p or lower.   

If I'm Microsoft I would not brag about the GPU by saying its been overclocked or anything like it, it may sound better for marketing reasons however, the GPU is "compared" not on par to a 7790, more like inbetween a 7770 and 7790. I ask, how slow was this gpu before the overclock and after the OC it can't equally match the performance of the 7790 an already slow gpu.... I would rather focus more on what the X1 can do as a unit instead..



My Trigger Happy Sixaxis controller

 


                            

Homeroids said:
I was led to believe that the eSRAM was one of the main factors behind the high transistor count?

The reason for a large transistor count is reflected through one big block, yes, the big block of eSRAM. For a 32 MB eSRAM array, there is 268,435,456 bit cells, for a 6T (6 transistors per bit cell) configuration, it would translate to 1.61 billion transistors, while for a 8T configuration, that’s around 2.15 billion transistors.

~1.6m is right for the usable sSRAM... MS used redendancy to avoid issues so there are a bit more eSRAM than 32MB but only 32MB will be used.



yo_john117 said:
So....technical jargon aside, what exactly does this mean?

Well, the guy does make some typos on the numbers.  And some of this is speculation, because some of legal issues and other stuff; yet it is still an interesting report.

Basically that there is a whole bunch of co-processors on the Xbox One chip. Which we knew, but I was, and probably others, concerned that it would be a complected mess to work with (like the Cell on the PS3), but according to this guy.  It is being integrated into DirectX, which I had hoped for, so the developer will not have to deal with complicated issues but Microsoft will take care of it for them.

The number of co-processors to handle sound, etc.  What this will do is free up the CPU to do other important things.  Also, due to the complexity of the CPU it will be able to (sort of) pre-render a scene before it sends it to the GPU.  Which could help explain why it's able to push more frames(according to reports) at 60FPS, while the PS4 is not getting there.

In addition there are reports that Sony is asking developers to use the GPU to for sound.  While someone pointed out they think it's a good thing; I counter that if it's in a game, it's a 'brute force' solution and a bad design flaw.  Also, that it would take power from the GPU, so this better GPU it has, would not have as much processing power left over for games.  So they would be sacrificing one of their advantages, which is just sad, and a little bit funny.

Some people who want to say "The PS4 is xx more powerful than the Xbone" got really upset and made personal attacks.  While they can not argue the fact the Xbox One's CPU and coprocessors is significantly larger and more powerful that the PS4's.

TL/DR Xbox CPU and CoProcessors are significantly larger more powerful than the PS4, and makes some people upset.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

SvennoJ said:
Zappykins said:

In regards with your first statement - good luck with that.  My Sherwood receiver has lasted twice as long as my Sony one.  But my Sony speakers are still going strong.  I would agree with the 2nd part if it was completely accurate, but that is only true if go you 2 channel.  I like 5.1 or better - so they are both about the same.  (http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/audiooutput.html)

In response to your second statement.  Yes, I absolutely agree.  I would hope they both do 192 khz sound.

I remember the day I played a CD and an LP back to back.  Even I could hear that the LP sounded better, more 'alive' if you will.  It was a sad day where I felt betrayed by technology.  Those 'old guys with the golden ears' weren't making stuff up.  But I did notice a nice improvement with DVD over CD for sound quality.  Higher sampling rates are better.

I also think 60p is to slow.  If you want to start another thread and we can discuss 120P and 192 khz and how even mere mortal would probably enjoy it better.

I've never owned any sony audio equipment as far as I can remember. I'm sold on Yamaha and B&W for my audio needs.
What do you mean by only if you go 2 channel? I get 5.1 DTS via optical on my Yamaha AX1 and 192/24/7.1 via hdmi on my Yamaha RX-v3800.

Best quality sound for movies on blu-ray so far are Baraka and Samsara (96/24 DTS-HD) and Akira (192/24 Dolby TrueHD) sounds phenomenal, crystal clear surround sound. When I put on a CD after it feels like my speakers are broken. (Luckily Yamaha has a lot of great dsp programs to liven up CD sound, The Bottom Line from New York is my favorite atm)

120p 4k 192/24 sound, now we're talking next-gen. It's possible with pixeljunk type graphics, but it sucks that ps4 and xb1 are stuck with hdmi 1.4, and tvs don't accept true 120hz yet. (well some do with a bit of tinkering http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/)

Well, envious of your Yamaha!  They make great stuff. B&W too, plus their speakers are usually pretty, pretty.  

For the 2 channel, I was referring directly to the PS3 manual, got that from Sony themselves.

If you have a B&W CD player they should multi sample, which helps a bit, but not as much as up-scaling a DVD to 1080p in my opinion.  Sounds like your Yamaha is doing that already or making 'environmental sound.'

Even HDMI 2, due out this fall, doesn't quite get their either.  It will do 120FPS, but that is for 3D with 1080P per eye, not true 120FPS. But it should give 4K at 60P.  So guess, I want 4K at 240 FPS (so you get 120 per eye.)  I know I aim high, but we will never get to Alpha Centari if we just shoot for Mars.

I will have to check those out.  Been a long time since I have seen Akiria, thanks for the other movie suggestions.  Perhaps you want to start a  'great movie sound' thread?



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!