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Forums - Politics Discussion - Will the US attack Syria to send a message to Iran?

iran have a mutual defence agreement so they would be drwan to war. But i say frack the USA, Europe should declare war on them for breaking the U.N charter, but we wont because we are allies dammit!



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PDF said:

I know there are many Syria threads already but this one has more to do with Iran.  Is the real goal to send a message to Iran about their nuclear program or is it really about chemical weapons?

Yeah, that's very clear message :D Arm before it's too late.



PDF said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
PDF said:
TheJimbo1234 said:

We are getting a little off topic.  You were already wrong.  The Syrian attacks do have to do with sending a message to iran as John Kerry has made very clear.

If nuclear weapons are outdated weapons of the past and provide no deterrence please explain Iran and North Korea pursuit to get them. Nuclear weapons are still the ultimate deterrence and far stronger than any economic relation can ever provide.  Not that there is no such thing as economic deterrence, it just provide assured destruction like nuclear weapons do.  Countries without the economic strength or Great Powers protecting them will seek their own protection and a nuke is a good way to do that.

Yes, a nuke is easy to get than a strong economy...but how you managed to get that to translate into "more of a deterrent" is a it of a mystery. As I said, look at China, Japan, and Russia. No one fears them due to their army (Japan doesn't own one), but people fear what would happen if trade stopped. Also it is far easier for a nation to stop trade than to start firing nukes everywhere as one is a simple economic move - the other is flat out war.

But the message of attacking Syria to tell Iran not to build weapons is a secondary result. Attacking Syria is to tell the world that you can not do this.


It's not a mystery it's simple logic.  Economic trouble vs certain death.  Which is more of a deterrent? No one thinks there going to use them so there is no fear but it is the ultimate defense.

 Do you retract your statement that Syria has nothing to do with Iran?    Kerry made it a strong point of argument not just some result thats included but is strongly factored in the decision.

Economic trouble of such scale that your entire economy collapses and you get a full on revolution/anarchy/starving/instantly-plunged-into-third-world nation. And the defence against that? Nothing. At least missiles can be shot down.

Syria doesn't have anything to do with Iran as it is larger than that. It is to show the world that WMD's are not allowed. It just so happens that Iran is aiming for a nuke at the moment.



TheJimbo1234 said:
How is this like Vietnam?

What I am scared by is how everyone thinks all wars are the same. Eh? What the hell happened to looking at individual cases and analysing them? Vietnam was a terrible war, but it was all about one state invading another. Yes, it was highly complex, but as always, America ignored these facts and jumped in there to defend the "good guys".

Now with this, the world has stood back have they not? Everyone has learnt after Iraq and Libya that some coutnries are highly volatile and there is no "right side" to be on. So why are you acting like they are getting involved straight away?

Now have you not read anything about chemical weapons? Do you not know what a world ban nor what a wmd is? I outlined this in my first post, yet you have ignored it. Why?

So now Obama is fighting to end the civil war?! Erm what the hell? This conflict has proven one thing - Western news is fucking useless as 99% of people seem to be utterly misinformed. He has clealry said numerous times that they are not fighting to helps rebels or end the war. He is attacking Assad for using wmd/commiting war crimes/breaking a world agreement to keep such foul weapons locked away and never to be used. 

The world thinking chemical weapons are ok to use is a threat to everyone. The reason no one uses them is fear of this happening - the world stomping all over you for being one sick nation.

As I've mentioned before to others...and I'm amazed I have to spell this out every time; if the rebels have chemical weapons...then holy shit help us as we are fucked. This means that Assad has lost control of his assets, the rebels have also got their hands on serious deployment capabilites, and of course, finally have wmds. Now if that is not reason enough to take out the other 1000 tons of chemical weapons, then I don't know what is.

Most countries have decided against Syrian intervention except for 2 who want to but haven't yet. France and the United States. Both countrie's governments seem to want to go but Obama is not too sure if to actually go ahead. And if you are fighting against Assad, aren't you on the rebels side even if you don't help them? And you think western news is useless, you believe Assad has used chemical weapons when there is no evidence for it. For all we know, it could be another white lie like when we went to Iraq for supposedly having WMD's. And for all you know, some company could of sold chemical weapons to rebels, if so that has nothing to do with Assad. Because of this confusion, we can't really go to war. Not that we should anyway. The west is almost broke so i don't know why people though another war was ever a good idea.

The whole idea of a country being a world police force is just absurd anyway and it certainly has proven it when it attacked some countries for no reason and ignored others which did worse against "international law" which could never be enforced anyway. I mean who do we think we are to even think of dropping one bomb or send over an army to defeat Assad?, like that would achieve anything. Also, we have our own problems, many problems at home in fact. Why not sort out those, instead of trying to fix someone elses? If we can afford yet another war, we can afford to update our infrastructure, reduce poverty, research new cures and technologies, invest in industry and many other things.     



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Ok, first off Nuclear weapons are totally worse then chemical weapons.

Second off, Both are greatly over hyped.

The effects of Nuclear weapons are greatly exaggerated and this was intentional as part of a cold war strategy to make sure they weren't used.

I mean hell, two have been used, and if you look at the scientific tests on them you find that no lasting effects were detectable outside of people in the blast area. Aka, no genetic damage for generations like some people believe, or even one generation. (Outside pregnant women, but pregnant at the time of the blast so i mean really, semantics.)

Chernobyl? Hardly any increase in actual cancer... except throat cancer from the people who drank contaminated milk and water.



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SamuelRSmith said:
PDF said:
SamuelRSmith said:
If the attack goes forward, it'll be more about sending messages to Russia/China than Iran.

What message are we sending to China and Russia?


This thing is basically a proxy war. Yesterday, Russia restructured Cyprus's debt to give them much more favourable terms. This morning, Cyprus announces that it will not let its sovereign territory be used to launch an attack on Syria.

The message is fairly simple: play ball. Russia has been reasserting itself in the region gradually for some time now, and China is growing in influence across Asia and Africa. It's also fairly clear that China has its eyes on reserve currency status...which is something that I believe the USG would go to war over, to the point of self-destruction.

What do you mean by your last sentence about China and currency reserve? And what's USG?



Slimebeast said:

What do you mean by your last sentence about China and currency reserve? And what's USG?

USG = US government obviously. He thinks that RMB might replace USD as a global reserve currency, which I doubt it will since Chinese won't be able to support its global status in the nearest future. More likely we see multiple regional reserve currencies including RMB when and if the US will float belly up, and we're far, far from it.



its all propaganda