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Forums - Gaming Discussion - AMD: PS4 performance advantage over XB1 bigger than many expect thanks to hUMA

pokoko said:

Interesting stuff. I wonder how much of an effect we'll see.

This fall? You won't see any difference at all. In order to get software out for launch, both systems use available engines to do the work. Maybe a little tweaked, but basically last-gen engines. In order to fully exploit what XBox One/PS4 have to offer in hardware, you need an engine that accesses all the good stuff. To build such an engine, you need time and money. Once the PS4 has huma-based engines, the differences WILL be noticable.



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ShinmenTakezo said:
tres said:
and why again did microsoft go with amd? but for those that pretty much are ignoring what the o.p. said i will try to explain it. microsoft didnt need to go with huma to do tiled resources because it was made for tiled resources. it all has direct x11.2 to get it done.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/27/microsoft-debuts-new-tiled-resources-graphics-tech/

hUMA isn't about tiled resources.

MS' "tiled resources" tech is already being used. It isn't MS exclusive. All it does is keep the high quality of whatever the camera is pointing at. This isn't an advantage for the One.

hUMA is about the CPU and GPU using the same pool of memory and being able to read each others data without the data having to be copied back and forth between the CPU memory and GPU memory. Tiled resources is software that is being used now, but just might not be called tiled resources. They show the same tech in COD Ghosts, a multiplat game.

Sorry, it isn't.

Tiled Resources is a thing only two existing companies have worked on and have patents for, one of them is Microsoft.  None of them is AMD or NVidia.  The other is PowerVR owned by Imagination Technologies.  Neither AMD nor NVidia are licensees for PowerVR's patent technology.

You're mistaking Tiled Resources with Megatextures.  They are not the same.

Tiled Resources are akin to Paint-by-Number.  Where a letter represents a texture image used.  A tiled resource is made up of multiple small texture tile images, 32x32p, 64x64p, or whatever ratio the final image requires.  Tiled resources looks at the entire geometry of a scene and only applies a texture to the visible area.  Ultimately this requires fewer resources, making tiled resources both GPU and memory efficient.

Megatextures require a very large, final image to act as the texture.  Up to 128000x128000.  These textures are then overlaid, one on top of the other.  So as you move, the texture that offers the infocus terrain is more visible.  While this is less GPU intensive, it is heavily memory intensive.     

The Xbox One doesn't use hUMA because the Xbox One uses eSRAM.  The GPU and the CPU in the Xbox One, as in the Xbox 360, can access the same memory but the GPU also utilizes the eSRAM. 



I think hUMA is why Sony has been touting PS4 as a super charged PC. After reading the article and the breakdowns of what it means, I am drinking the juice. This sound very impressive and sounds like it will not only revolutionize gaming, but computing in general. CPU and GPU complementing each other, covering the others weaknesses. Resulting in the most complete and balanced architecture ever imo.



disolitude said:
JerCotter7 said:
maximrace said:
Lol msft supported Amd for so long and now they fuck with them


They certainly wont go back to nvidia anyway. Where else do they have to turn really?

Why not? Nvidia was the chosen partner for Microsoft Surface and upcoming Surface 2 (RT models).

They would go back to Nvidia in a flash if they had a competitive x86 solution. Nvidia doesn't do x86 but GPUs and ARM SoC. 

I'm guessing the surface parts are the same as all other tablets and not stuff designed/modified for the surface?


Didn't the get burned badly with the xbox the first with nvidia?  This is all just an uneducated guess really. Just thinking aloud.



RenCutypoison said:
zarx said:
Why the fuck would MS not implement it?


Because they already spended 3 billions in R&D for APU that boosts native hypervisor and synchronous(ness ?) of the three OS.

They made a choice.


They made a bad one then AMD have had perfectly servicable Hypervisor support since 2007, and so have MS at least in the server space. hUMA is a technology that should be built into the hardware already. It should be a no brainer, maybe the eSRAM and the "move engines" is the problem.



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Adinnieken said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
tres said:
and why again did microsoft go with amd? but for those that pretty much are ignoring what the o.p. said i will try to explain it. microsoft didnt need to go with huma to do tiled resources because it was made for tiled resources. it all has direct x11.2 to get it done.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/27/microsoft-debuts-new-tiled-resources-graphics-tech/

hUMA isn't about tiled resources.

MS' "tiled resources" tech is already being used. It isn't MS exclusive. All it does is keep the high quality of whatever the camera is pointing at. This isn't an advantage for the One.

hUMA is about the CPU and GPU using the same pool of memory and being able to read each others data without the data having to be copied back and forth between the CPU memory and GPU memory. Tiled resources is software that is being used now, but just might not be called tiled resources. They show the same tech in COD Ghosts, a multiplat game.

Sorry, it isn't.

Tiled Resources is a thing only two existing companies have worked on and have patents for, one of them is Microsoft.  None of them is AMD or NVidia.  The other is PowerVR owned by Imagination Technologies.  Neither AMD nor NVidia are licensees for PowerVR's patent technology.

You're mistaking Tiled Resources with Megatextures.  They are not the same.

Tiled Resources are akin to Paint-by-Number.  Where a letter represents a texture image used.  A tiled resource is made up of multiple small texture tile images, 32x32p, 64x64p, or whatever ratio the final image requires.  Tiled resources looks at the entire geometry of a scene and only applies a texture to the visible area.  Ultimately this requires fewer resources, making tiled resources both GPU and memory efficient.

Megatextures require a very large, final image to act as the texture.  Up to 128000x128000.  These textures are then overlaid, one on top of the other.  So as you move, the texture that offers the infocus terrain is more visible.  While this is less GPU intensive, it is heavily memory intensive.     

The Xbox One doesn't use hUMA because the Xbox One uses eSRAM.  The GPU and the CPU in the Xbox One, as in the Xbox 360, can access the same memory but the GPU also utilizes the eSRAM. 

You read my post? You are saying exactly what I said. Read the bolded. I said exactly what you said, but in laymans terms.

I never said tiled resources is being used by AMD or whoever else you assumed. I said similar tech is already being used. Like I said COD Ghosts uses a similar tech.

We don't know why MS doesn't use hUMA. Also, why are you telling me things that have nothing to do with what I have been saying? I know all about the One memory archetechture. It's still inferior to hUMA.

Tiled resources can be used on any platform. It isn't only possible on One. hUMA on the other hand is a hardware solution. What are you trying to argue?



It easy to understand the hUMA.

Today when you have a task in PC that need to use both GPU and CPU you write in a simple term a code like:

Read GPU Memory
GPU Work
Write GPU Memory
Copy from GPU Memory to CPU Memory
Read CPU Memory
CPU Work
Write CPU Memory
Copy from CPU Memory to GPU Memory

Even if a Unified Memory Pool you need to copy the data between the CPU allocated space and GPU allocated space

Read Memory (GPU allocated)
GPU Work
Write Memory (GPU allocated)
Copy from GPU allocated memory to CPU allocated memory
Read Memory (CPU allocated)
CPU Work
Write Memory (CPU allocated)
Copy from CPU allocated memory to GPU allocated memory

With hUMA you kill these copy tasks from CPU/GPU.

Read Memory
GPU Work
Write Memory
Read Memory
CPU Work
Write Memory

Due lattencies issues with the memory the gain removing these Copy between memory part five a significative boost in performance of the code created to run the game and open more possibilities to developers uses more taks that combines GPU and CPU.

A good exemplo... sometime a  part of a task runs better on CPU than GPU but the data used are in GPU memory so the dev choose to use the GPU to do this task because the gain in perforance won't be significative over the copy/move data between the memories but now with hUMA will can use the CPU and GPU without need to move/copy the data... so it a task run better on CPU or GPU they use it without need extra work.

That's what I get from hUMA.

PS. My example is too simple and not like it is implementend... just to make a point.

The PS4 GPU is created with tech that AMD will release on the market with GCN 2.0 next year... so it is safe to say that for a time the PS4 GPU will be the most advanced GPU in the market... even PC can't have that yet.



DirtyP2002 said:
Those $2 - $5 indie games will look OUTSTANDING on the PS4.

Ahhh, nothing like some good ol' extremely biased Microsoft fans attempting to downplay what is a very significant bit of news.  I'd be butthurt too if I was as blind as you, dot know why people like you even exist, it's embarrassing to think I live on the same planet as you.  As for amd's huge revelation, this is absolutely exciting!  Man I can't wait to see how naughty dog utilizes this tech, they're gonna change the fucking world. 

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