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Forums - Gaming Discussion - UNITY - Nintendo & Wii U Finish The REVOLUTION

Something big is about to happen with games journalism.



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nin10do said:
Something big is about to happen with games journalism.

There was barely any journalism before :(. What could happen to it?



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

Stefan.De.Machtige said:
nin10do said:
Something big is about to happen with games journalism.

There was barely any journalism before :(. What could happen to it?


Half Life 3 could happen.



From the looks of it, PS4`s launch won`t go as smoothly as some expected.



DélioPT said:
From the looks of it, PS4`s launch won`t go as smoothly as some expected.

It will. The twitter issue is something else.



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JoeTheBro said:
DélioPT said:
From the looks of it, PS4`s launch won`t go as smoothly as some expected.

It will. The twitter issue is something else.

The twitter issue is about Sony`s policies, from what i can tell from Marcus comments, specifically.
The actual launch will have it`s hiccups as usual.

Of course, i´m assuming one thing won`t affect the other.



johnlucas said:


I hope the '95' is just some random number because if it's Zod's birth year, I'm gonna have a field day with this rebuttal.
Somebody barely older than the Nintendo 64 trying to school me about this gaming business?

95 is neither random nor my birth year. There is a game whose the main character is called Zod and that game is from 1995. But age has nothing to do with arguments, reasoning, facts or even knowledge. There's something called "History" that let us know about things that happened in the past (even before our birth). And, in that sense, I may sometimes teach you about the gaming industry and other times it will be you teaching me. Is there any shame on that regardless our ages? I don't think so. I hope you don't either.

 

johnlucas said:


NO price drop makes sales like what Wii made in December 2009.
Price drops may give a little boost but they can't make consoles sell like that all alone.
It was New Super Mario Bros. Wii on TOP of the established promise of the Wii that made that 3.8 million in December of 2009.

It was not "just another game". That's like calling Grand Theft Auto: Vice City "just another game". That's the game that helped the PS2 make that 2.7 million that December. The best-selling game that December of 2002 (nearly 1.6 million).

It's absurd.

This is very simple: from 2006 to 2008 Wii had strong and constant sales and the price was always 250 euros ; in 2009 they dropped a bit ; in the end of 2009 the console had its 1st price cut (after 3 immaculate years) and then sales went up like never before. This is cause-and-effect, my friend. You tell me it was because of NSMB Wii. And I tell you: no game produces such an effect, NO ONE. Hardware price drops are the most effective way to raise hardware sales. But lets assume you're right. Then NSMB Wii would have produced an increase in sales like no other Wii game did. And in that sense it's strange that game is not the best selling Wii game. Another interesting fact is that games like Wii Sports and Wii Play came out in 2006...and look at their impact on Wii sales. Not even close. And games like Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort and Mario Kart Wii, which sold dozens of millions each, were unable to make in 2008 the greatest raise Wii ever had. No, it was NSMB Wii alone that did it. Now laugh a bit more, because  when you laugh you just show your ignorance.

 

johnlucas said:


No such thing as "Hardcore Games" or "Casual Games" either.
Let's get that straight right now.

Ok, lets get things straight: when I say "hardcore games" I'm refering to games that are really from the present generation and "casual" when they are retro (and almost any Wii game is retro, from Wii Sports to Mario Galaxy, from Wii Party to NSMB, from Mario Kart to Kirby, etc.). If you want, I can shift it to "real games" and "mini-games".

 

johnlucas said:


PS2 was a less powerful console too. Didn't stop it from getting all the games in the 6th gen.
Sega Genesis/Mega Drive was much weaker than the SNES but I remember Mortal Kombat & Street Fighter II coming out for both systems in the 4th gen.

Now you make me laugh. The difference between PS2 and Game Cube or between Mega Drive and SNES was nothing compared to the difference between Wii and PS3/X360. It's like comparing N64 with Dreamcast. It's not about small or big differences...it's about different generations (HUGE differences). To put a game like GTA IV on Wii would require to downgrade the graphics to the 5th generation or even worse (and that's something gamers wouldn't accept, it's not about Rockstart's good/bad will). Because the difference between Wii and PS3/X360 is not in graphics, it's in power. And if graphics consume power, so does any other element in gaming (physics, game rules, AI, nr of objects displayed, draw distance, sound, etc.). For the Wii to run every element GTA IV has (which was designed for the 7th generation) it would require to have at least non-gameplay elements (such as graphics) downgraded. And the same applies to Assassin's Creed, LA Noire, Bioshock, Fallout, Rage and many many others. But even if this little BIG detail didn't exist at all, Wii would still have the problem of "real games" to sell badly. So a lot of devs would avoid it anyway...

 

johnlucas said:


So Nintendo pretty much shut the Wii down to make sure this obstruction never happens again.

This is funny. How does Wii U prevent 3rd parties to avoid it like they did to Wii? As far as I know, Wii U has no next-gen multi-platform games (games that will be launched on PS4 and XOne but not on PS3 and X360). History repeats itself. Within 5 or 6 years, Nintendo will launch Wii U's successor and you will tell the very same thing...

 

johnlucas said:


Old school gaming? Microsoft & Sony are "old school gaming"? What in the Gargamel are you talkin' 'bout?

I'm talking about the games' natural evolution, my friend. Something that Nintendo was unable to do. That's why N64 and Game Cube were demolished by PS1 and PS2. Because Sony was capable of giving to Nintendo's old-school fans what they really wanted, while Nintendo continued to be focused on low-budget kindergarten games like Mario, Kirby, Donkey Kong, etc.

 

johnlucas said:


And Wii wasn't cooked that year in 2010. Everybody said that the 360 with its 'S' revision & Kinect would topple the Wii in 2010.

This and the following many paragraphs are just off-topic, since I haven't said anything like that.

 

johnlucas said:


Yawn. A simple paint job, brother. The power of the 25th Anniversary of Super Mario Bros. was all it took.
You talk about "several new bundles" & forget that the 360 TOTALLY OVERHAULED THEIR ENTIRE SYSTEMS.
THEN added a Kinect! And Microsoft had been doing this 'shifting bundles' type of thing from doggone near the beginning.

Sometimes you just answer your own questions. It's true that the PS3 and X360 were frequently blundled with different games, accessories, etc. since the beginning of the generation. But with the Wii is was the first time. In 3 years, Wii was always bundled with Wii Sports, nothing more and nothing instead. In 2010, Wii was bundled with Wii Sports Resort and Wii Motion Plus for the same 200 euros, with Mario Kart Wii, with NSMB Wii, etc. This was a change, this was another desperate move to try to stop the HD turnaround. In 3 years they had maintained a console always bundled with the same game, always for the same price. In October 2009 they dropped the price in 50 euros. A few months later they bundled the console with 1 additional game and accessory for 220 euros, a few months later they dropped it to 200 euros, a few months later they've created alternatives to Wii Sports...but the sales didn't stop to decrease. They've realized they couldn't keep on offering more for less quarter after quarter (otherwise in...let's say 2013...Wii would be...well...like...for free!). So they've started to think about new ways to fool the consumer. Wii's family edition is the greatest example of that. A console that is bigger, has no retro-compatibility and costs the same 0.o

 

johnlucas said:


Nintendo quit on Wii after the 2010 holiday season. This is the period when they focused more on Wii U's development (Project Café).
Like I said they let Wii run on autopilot picking up lazy sales by sheer past momentum.

If that's the way to think, I just have 1 thing to tell you: Nintendo is running on autopilot since 1998.

 

johnlucas said:

Nintendo abruptly puts out the 3DS to answer Apple, Samsung, & the gang...The 3DS was announced in 2010 not 2009 (2009 would have been even worse!) & its announcement overshadowed the large-size revision of the DSi XL...Abrupt just like I said. And it was like this because DSi wasn't enough to stem the tide of Apple & the rising Androids from Google...They were making the argument that a dedicated handheld gaming device was STILL necessary even with the new PC platform of the smartphones & tablets. And they are succeeding in that argument as evidenced by the marvelous sales.

You are not making much sense. If the DSi XL was already an answer to the smartphones, why would Nintendo need 3DS to address to the very same issue? And you think 3DS sales are marveouls? They are worse than what the DS had...What kind of an argument is succeding when the argument's owner is losing?

 

johnlucas said:

Generations talk about competitive systems on the market not merely tech.

That's why the technologically superior Mattel Intellivision & the technologically inferior Atari 2600 were both considered part of the 2nd generation.

Wii was 7th gen by market competition AND tech. It was stronger than all of the past 6th gen systems.
Wii U is 8th gen by market competition AND tech. It is stronger than all of the past 7th gen systems.

If you think that way, I have some questions for you:

1 - Are the Dreamcast (1998), PS2 (2000) and Game Cube (2001) from different generations? Because Dreamcast (1998-2001) competed more with PS1 (1995-2002) than with PS2 (2000-2009).

2 - Are the PS2 and PS3 from different generations? Because they were selling, having production and game launches at the same time during several years.

3 - Is the Zeebo (2009) from a different generation than X360 (2005)? Maybe...and that would mean Wii U (2012) is from the 9th generation...and maybe PS4 (2013) is from 10th generation...or have the consoles from the past (launched in different years) made us going already in the 20th generation?

4 - PS3 (2006/2007) is stronger than the past systems: X360 (2005) and Wii (2006). Is it from a different generation?

5 - How do you conciliate market competition and tech (what formula do you use)? How do you define market competition in the first place?

That's right, my friend, you're biased, inconsitent and incoherent.

In my opinion, generations are defined by tech. If I decide to create in my garage a console as powerful as the PS1, it doesn't make it 8th generation just because we are in 2013. If time was the relevant aspect, then generations would stop making sense. We could just talk about years (each one would be a generation). Tech is was comes to the screen, to the controller, to the columns...it's the outcome...the thing that make us look at a game and say"this is a 7th generation game...in which year was it launched?".

 

johnlucas said:

You seem to be the type that buys into a lot of bullspit....As you can see from the naked eye, there's no discernable leap in graphics.
Nintendo President Satoru Iwata already warned you about this in 2004 at E3.
He said, "The time when horsepower alone made an important difference is over."

Your problem is that you're so focused on graphics...so focused (even more focused than the gamers who appreciate top-notch graphics)...that you miss the point. It's not about graphics...it's about power...it has ever been so. Specially in this 8th generation, where the major evolution was in RAM, not in processing power, you will not see a major leap in graphics. But you will see, for example, games that struggled to be launched on consoles (or that weren't launched on them at all, just on PC) to come to PS4 and XOne. I personally like the way things are evolving at the moment. RAM is much more important to be pushed up than processors. I was tired of seeing games / gaming experiences not coming to consoles because they didn't have enough RAM do run it. For me that's much more important than graphics. But guess what? Wii U will miss that...Nintendo will remain in the kindergarten level...Iwata will continue to make easy money while fooling Nintendo fans like you.

 

johnlucas said:

I remember them saying they couldn't run a Call of Duty game on the Wii at one time. Years later I see Modern Warfare 3 on the Wii not long after Black Ops was on there, not long after World at War was on there.

Yeah, I know...and NFS Shift skipped Wii while NFS Hot Pursuit (launched 1 year later) didn't. From what I've heard, the game is just not the same. Sure they can make a game called "GTA IV" and launch it on the Wii. The title is easy to "develop", the content isn't.

 

johnlucas said:

The 3rd parties PROVED why Nintendo must set the terms for the health of the industry.
XBox One's fiasco was the 3rd parties' doing.

You forget that PS4 didn't do anything of that and that Microsoft did a 180 on their measures to XOne because of PS4's position w, not Wii U's. You forget also that, taking into account the tech, Wii was the most expensive console of the last generation...and Wii U is on its way to make the same thing. You forget that Nintendo launched a Wii's version with lower specs for the same price and, later on, launched a version 30 euros cheaper but without online. Talking about online, you forget that Nintendo has always delivered the worse online service. As for the games, it has produced always low-budget games that sold dozens of millions...to the pockets of the shareholders, because the following titles continued to be low-budget and many IPs using always the same formula (like Super Mario Bros and Pokemon). Nintendo has remained on the kindergarten niche, once they saw it was easier to fool childreen than teenagers or adults. That's what you get from a company that you think it deserved to dominate the industry. I just don't want to imagine how mediocre the industry would become if that happened.

 

johnlucas said:

They began work on Wii U in 2008 & you can look back & see them draw back a little from Wii in the middle of 2009.
A good deal of their resources was getting tied up with Wii U more & more. By the time 2011 rolled around they were knee deep in Wii U pudding so almost all focus on the Wii was withdrawn to get this console out by 2012.

...so they coudn't have aborted Wii on 2009. As you say, things take their time. It would be stupid to think "hey, let's kill Wii in 2009 already and endure 5 years with decreasing results!". They simply did the best they could. It's funny how you see Nintendo's good moments like good moments and Nintendo's bad moments like warm ups to Nintendo's even greater moments. Where are they? I'm looking forward to see Wii U selling 240 million as you predict.

 

johnlucas said:

100 million Wiis sold is a long-term failure??? Good God this guy!! That is ridiculous what he's saying.
Does he hear what's coming out of his mouth? Or is he just mad-libbing?

Success and failure are determined by expectations. PSP, for example, was a failure. It aimed to win the generation and it lost pretty badly. Of course I could say "how can 80 million units sold represent a failure?". Or "I just wanted the products of my business to sell the 6 million PS Vita sold"...does it make it a success? I don't think so. At the beginning Wii aimed to revolutionize the market but soon Nintendo understood they could attempt to win the generation. Expectations have changed in few months and they remained for some years...but now we see they've lost the software battle and they can even lose the hardware battle too.

 

johnlucas said:

Physics, AI, yak yak yak. It's already done, dude. It's already accomplished.

LOL



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

You know zod96 I was really reading all the arguments that you posted against john lucas but then you said this:

"Ok, lets get things straight: when I say "hardcore games" I'm refering to games that are really from the present generation and "casual" when they are retro (and almost any Wii game is retro, from Wii Sports to Mario Galaxy, from Wii Party to NSMB, from Mario Kart to Kirby, etc.). If you want, I can shift it to "real games" and "mini-games"."

After I read this I retired myself to drink some coffe and analyze the words that you wrote... And I must say, I don't understand what the hell are you talking about.

You say that games from this generations are the "hardcore games" and everything that is retro is a "casual game" or as you like to say "mini-games". I never saw this kind of argument before, I never saw this level of ignorance about videogames. I really hope you where kidding.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

Zod95 said:

 "But guess what? Wii U will miss that...Nintendo will remain in the kindergarten level...Iwata will continue to make easy money while fooling Nintendo fans like you."

 

"Nintendo has remained on the kindergarten niche, once they saw it was easier to fool childreen than teenagers or adults. That's what you get from a company that you think it deserved to dominate the industry. I just don't want to imagine how mediocre the industry would become if that happened."

 


You have just described the current gaming industry of AAA titles whoop-dee-doo!

Also your statement, let me show what is wrong:

"But guess what? Playstation will miss that...Sony will remain in the kindergarten level...Kazuo will continue to make easy money while fooling Sony fans like you."

"But guess what? Xbox One will miss that...Microsoft will remain in the kindergarten level...Balmer will continue to make easy money while fooling Microsoft fans like you."

 

"Sony has remained on the "hardcore" niche, once they saw it was easier to fool childreen than teenagers or adults. That's what you get from a company that you think it deserved to dominate the industry. I just don't want to imagine how mediocre the industry would become if that happened."

"Microsoft has remained on the "hardcore" niche, once they saw it was easier to fool childreen than teenagers or adults. That's what you get from a company that you think it deserved to dominate the industry. I just don't want to imagine how mediocre the industry would become if that happened."

See? its not hard to twist your argument.



Just to let you know from which corner I come from: I have to say I'm a Nintendo fan but I also like my Playstation 2 and 3 and there are/were times I played with them more often than with Nintendo consoles.

Recently, I sat in a crowded bus and I listened to a conversation of two young twens (both male), standing in front of me. They talked lively about (hard)core games (I don't like the divison between "core" and "casual" either but how should we divide if we clearly don't talk about all these Wii Sports, Wii Plays, Zumba Fitness, Kinect Sports, Kinect Adventures, etc.). I thought to myself, they are typical non Nintendo gamer and they would never touch a Nintendo Wii(U), not even for $1 mil.

But then happend the unexpected: One guy suddenly said with excitement: "Have you heard, the new Mario game (of course he meant SM3DW) is out soon?" Then they talked about the Nintendo WiiU and what a great console it is and both were looking forward to buy it. But then came the real shocking moment for me as the same guy who mentioned Mario, concluded: "I really think that the Nintendo WiiU is the best console!" (And of course, he didn't mean it is more powerfull than PS 3 and X-Box 360 but he meant the overall product compared to the current gen and even more so to the other next gen consoles PS 4 and X-Box One). The other guy just nodded in accordance.

To hear this words from a young male (hard)core twen who's favourite games are shooters and other hard action games is truly inspiring. I think the real problem the Nintendo WiiU has is that many (hard)core gamer like him have a secret love for the Nintendo WiiU but don't dare to speak it out because they fear to get laughed at by their friends. All these guys will secretly by a Nintendo WiiU without making noise about it which costs important mouth to mouth advertisement. But luckily, the integrated communication system in the Nintendo WiiU (were you can appear anonymious) as well as time itself will solve that problem.