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Forums - Gaming Discussion - UNITY - Nintendo & Wii U Finish The REVOLUTION

Fusioncode said:
impertinence said:
Fusioncode said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Fusioncode said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Clearly old news as far as the Internet goes but why haven't I seen it posted here despite its relevance is beyond me. http://gaminrealm.com/2013/12/30/sony-79-chance-bankrupt-2-years/

It was posted and it's clearly complete bullshit. 


In this thread? Hmm..

Is this bullshit based off of facts or biased opinions?

Did you even read the article? No I'm sure you just looked at the title and instantly deduced that Sony will be forced into bankruptcy soon. The article also states that Nintendo has a 22% chance of bankruptcy, does that make any sense to you? Nintendo most likely has billions in their war chest, and the solid 3DS sales will balance out the awful WiiU numbers. I would say their chance of going bankrupt is less than 1%. They are doing nothing more than pulling a random number out of their ass hoping gullible fanboys will wet themselves in glee of the possiblity of Sony going bankrupt. Here's a hint, it's not going to happen. 

And I don't think a person who believes the WiiU will sell 3m units in Q1 2014 should be talking about anyone having biased opinions. 

If you think the number is just pulled out of someones ass you really should look into it a little further, or barring that not comment on what it means. The figure is just a standard measurrement used in financial analysis to evaluate the risk of bankrupcy. The company who published these numbers has very little to gain from getting gullible fanboys to wet themselves, everything to gain from providing solid financial data. So why exactly do you think they are making the number up?

If you care to you can calculate the number yourself since the algorithm they have used is widely known and the data used is in the public domain. I don't care enough to do it, but if you want to prove that these numbers are hogwash go ahead. Show the math.

Solid financial data? Even the article that quoted the data said it's all a guess. Do you think just because they calculated a number based off of a few certain variables it's 100% accurate? It is absolutely impossible to calculate a company's chances of going bankrupt because there an infinite number of variables to work with.  It isn't just about stocks and trade values, that's a shortsighted way to look at any company's financial status. 

It is indeed impossible to calculate exactly the probability of a company going bankrupt, but it is not impossible to estimate that probability. That's what the number reflects, and it is meant for investors as part of analysing the risk  of a certain stock. The number is not something this website has made up, it's based of a formula that has been used by investors for many decades to quantify the risk for losing their investment in a bankrupcy. Also, from what I understand, a single data point like this is less important than the current trend. Perhaps Sony's probability of going bankrupt is decreasing right now for all I know, and that would be a good sign. Still though, the core finacial data according to this way of looking at them look like Sony is what is considered to be a company in severe distress.

As hilarious as a Sony bankrupcy would be here on these forums, I hope it doesn't happen both for gaming in general and for the people who would be affected. Perhaps if Microsoft or Nintendo bought the gaming devision in a bankrupcy the meltdown would be worth it though?



Around the Network

Step 1 of the Wii U's road to recovery http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/wii-fit-u-coming-retail-next-week/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter



Things that need to die in 2016: Defeatist attitudes of Nintendo fans

impertinence said:
Fusioncode said:
impertinence said:
Fusioncode said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Fusioncode said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Clearly old news as far as the Internet goes but why haven't I seen it posted here despite its relevance is beyond me. http://gaminrealm.com/2013/12/30/sony-79-chance-bankrupt-2-years/

It was posted and it's clearly complete bullshit. 


In this thread? Hmm..

Is this bullshit based off of facts or biased opinions?

Did you even read the article? No I'm sure you just looked at the title and instantly deduced that Sony will be forced into bankruptcy soon. The article also states that Nintendo has a 22% chance of bankruptcy, does that make any sense to you? Nintendo most likely has billions in their war chest, and the solid 3DS sales will balance out the awful WiiU numbers. I would say their chance of going bankrupt is less than 1%. They are doing nothing more than pulling a random number out of their ass hoping gullible fanboys will wet themselves in glee of the possiblity of Sony going bankrupt. Here's a hint, it's not going to happen. 

And I don't think a person who believes the WiiU will sell 3m units in Q1 2014 should be talking about anyone having biased opinions. 

If you think the number is just pulled out of someones ass you really should look into it a little further, or barring that not comment on what it means. The figure is just a standard measurrement used in financial analysis to evaluate the risk of bankrupcy. The company who published these numbers has very little to gain from getting gullible fanboys to wet themselves, everything to gain from providing solid financial data. So why exactly do you think they are making the number up?

If you care to you can calculate the number yourself since the algorithm they have used is widely known and the data used is in the public domain. I don't care enough to do it, but if you want to prove that these numbers are hogwash go ahead. Show the math.

Solid financial data? Even the article that quoted the data said it's all a guess. Do you think just because they calculated a number based off of a few certain variables it's 100% accurate? It is absolutely impossible to calculate a company's chances of going bankrupt because there an infinite number of variables to work with.  It isn't just about stocks and trade values, that's a shortsighted way to look at any company's financial status. 

It is indeed impossible to calculate exactly the probability of a company going bankrupt, but it is not impossible to estimate that probability. That's what the number reflects, and it is meant for investors as part of analysing the risk  of a certain stock. The number is not something this website has made up, it's based of a formula that has been used by investors for many decades to quantify the risk for losing their investment in a bankrupcy. Also, from what I understand, a single data point like this is less important than the current trend. Perhaps Sony's probability of going bankrupt is decreasing right now for all I know, and that would be a good sign. Still though, the core finacial data according to this way of looking at them look like Sony is what is considered to be a company in severe distress.

As hilarious as a Sony bankrupcy would be here on these forums, I hope it doesn't happen both for gaming in general and for the people who would be affected. Perhaps if Microsoft or Nintendo bought the gaming devision in a bankrupcy the meltdown would be worth it though?

I get what you're saying about the numbers being estimations, but I still feel it's worth very little in the grand scheme of things. There are simply too many factors to consider in order to make a decent estimation. And just because I don't like the WiiU doesn't mean I want Nintendo to go bankrupt. WIth Nintendo gone I wouldn't be able to play Pokemon or Metroid anymore. And that is a very dark future. 



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

Dv8thwonder said:
Step 1 of the Wii U's road to recovery http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/wii-fit-u-coming-retail-next-week/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

WiiU has been out for over a year, which has included 2 holiday seasons, and you still think the casuals will get on board? They're long gone.



 

Seece said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Step 1 of the Wii U's road to recovery http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/wii-fit-u-coming-retail-next-week/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

WiiU has been out for over a year, which has included 2 holiday seasons, and you still think the casuals will get on board? They're long gone.


There's that broken marketing term again. It never existed. Neither does hardcore.

Let's just see how Nintendo markets this and how people who play games responds to it before we make rash judgement calls.



Things that need to die in 2016: Defeatist attitudes of Nintendo fans

Around the Network
Fusioncode said:
impertinence said:
Fusioncode said:
impertinence said:
Fusioncode said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Fusioncode said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Clearly old news as far as the Internet goes but why haven't I seen it posted here despite its relevance is beyond me. http://gaminrealm.com/2013/12/30/sony-79-chance-bankrupt-2-years/

It was posted and it's clearly complete bullshit. 


In this thread? Hmm..

Is this bullshit based off of facts or biased opinions?

Did you even read the article? No I'm sure you just looked at the title and instantly deduced that Sony will be forced into bankruptcy soon. The article also states that Nintendo has a 22% chance of bankruptcy, does that make any sense to you? Nintendo most likely has billions in their war chest, and the solid 3DS sales will balance out the awful WiiU numbers. I would say their chance of going bankrupt is less than 1%. They are doing nothing more than pulling a random number out of their ass hoping gullible fanboys will wet themselves in glee of the possiblity of Sony going bankrupt. Here's a hint, it's not going to happen. 

And I don't think a person who believes the WiiU will sell 3m units in Q1 2014 should be talking about anyone having biased opinions. 

If you think the number is just pulled out of someones ass you really should look into it a little further, or barring that not comment on what it means. The figure is just a standard measurrement used in financial analysis to evaluate the risk of bankrupcy. The company who published these numbers has very little to gain from getting gullible fanboys to wet themselves, everything to gain from providing solid financial data. So why exactly do you think they are making the number up?

If you care to you can calculate the number yourself since the algorithm they have used is widely known and the data used is in the public domain. I don't care enough to do it, but if you want to prove that these numbers are hogwash go ahead. Show the math.

Solid financial data? Even the article that quoted the data said it's all a guess. Do you think just because they calculated a number based off of a few certain variables it's 100% accurate? It is absolutely impossible to calculate a company's chances of going bankrupt because there an infinite number of variables to work with.  It isn't just about stocks and trade values, that's a shortsighted way to look at any company's financial status. 

It is indeed impossible to calculate exactly the probability of a company going bankrupt, but it is not impossible to estimate that probability. That's what the number reflects, and it is meant for investors as part of analysing the risk  of a certain stock. The number is not something this website has made up, it's based of a formula that has been used by investors for many decades to quantify the risk for losing their investment in a bankrupcy. Also, from what I understand, a single data point like this is less important than the current trend. Perhaps Sony's probability of going bankrupt is decreasing right now for all I know, and that would be a good sign. Still though, the core finacial data according to this way of looking at them look like Sony is what is considered to be a company in severe distress.

As hilarious as a Sony bankrupcy would be here on these forums, I hope it doesn't happen both for gaming in general and for the people who would be affected. Perhaps if Microsoft or Nintendo bought the gaming devision in a bankrupcy the meltdown would be worth it though?

I get what you're saying about the numbers being estimations, but I still feel it's worth very little in the grand scheme of things. There are simply too many factors to consider in order to make a decent estimation. And just because I don't like the WiiU doesn't mean I want Nintendo to go bankrupt. WIth Nintendo gone I wouldn't be able to play Pokemon or Metroid anymore. And that is a very dark future. 


I have been reading about "Sony going bankrupt next year" since 2006 or so based on the same logic used by these analysts.

This reminds me so much of Toyota in 2009 or 2010. The analysts looked into their crystal balls and predicted bankrupcy, doomed, out of business. Damn, it was not 79% chance but pretty much a certainty.

It is not an exact science, I agree. Yes, there is a chance Sony can go bankrupt but that outcome is more in Sony's hands than the analysts.



Fusioncode said:
Arius Dion said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Fusioncode said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Clearly old news as far as the Internet goes but why haven't I seen it posted here despite its relevance is beyond me. http://gaminrealm.com/2013/12/30/sony-79-chance-bankrupt-2-years/

It was posted and it's clearly complete bullshit. 


In this thread? Hmm..

Is this bullshit based off of facts or biased opinions?


Unfortunately, fans are blinded to anything that goes against peachy and creamy ideas. Sega fans used to be like this too. Facts are Sony is financial trouble, they enjoy a junk status rating, and had to sell buildings to hide financial losses. But in fantasy land this is all irrelevant talk and just negativity from the anti Sony crowd. #'s are #'s until it happens. 

Nobody's denying the fact that Sony has financial trouble, but you're blinded by hate if you think they haven't been improving. Their losses have been steadily going down since Kaz took over and they are on the track to improving things. 


Sure. They became junk status under kaz. And financials had to be shielded by selling buildings. But hey baby steps I guess. I've no dog in the fight. 



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

Dv8thwonder said:
Seece said:
Dv8thwonder said:
Step 1 of the Wii U's road to recovery http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/wii-fit-u-coming-retail-next-week/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

WiiU has been out for over a year, which has included 2 holiday seasons, and you still think the casuals will get on board? They're long gone.


There's that broken marketing term again. It never existed. Neither does hardcore.

Let's just see how Nintendo markets this and how people who play games responds to it before we make rash judgement calls.

Oh it very much exists, it's just very fluid. To put everyone under the same umbrella as 'gamer's is just ridiculous.



 

DBZfan2027 said:
I really don't understand the blind support for Nintendo, especially after the Wii. So, Nintendo's success only brought about shovelware, casual party games, and an archaic online infrastructure. Yet this somehow is all excused because "haha they make more money than Sony!" Has anyone ever truly put this into perspective? Think about it: the Wii made Nintendo lots of money, and they choose to invest this on a console, whose power is only comparable to 7th gen hardware, still has outdated online support, and has one of the worst gamepads a console has ever seen. This is more than good enough for Nintendo fans? It pleases you to know that your favorite company opts to reserve its profits and doesn't even try to take some risk financially for the betterment of console gaming?

Contrast this with Sony's losses and what they took to showing everyone with PS4: a console more developer friendly, an improved UI, OS (which helps with things like browsing the PS Store), loads of power that is comparable to SOME high end PCs. So the PS4 isn't worth owning in spite of this because Sony doesn't make enough money for you? Why is this talking point used so much by Nintendo fans? Because arguing sales in units is obviously going to become a losing proposition for them. It's a sad and pathetic strawman argument. And trying to draw parallels with SEGA's financials, really? Talk about desperate here.

Me

Your entire comment was very wise and I fully agree with you. Actually, that's what I've been saying for months. But most of people don't get it. Money at Sony's/Microsoft's hands turns into high-tech consoles and more games for us. Money at Nintendo's hands just goes to the pockets of the investors (I know that some small part of it goes for the development of more consoles and games too).

I like to come to VGChartz and see the numbers because I want PlayStation and Xbox to sell well (both at hardware and software levels). I like the idea of those products to be as disseminated as possible to the point that they become very relevant to the industry. I believe that's the feeling of anyone who cheers for a specific console here at the site. But when I say that Wii didn't win the 7th generation (it's already 3rd at software numbers and may become 2nd at hardware), its fans deny it and start talking about how much more money Nintendo has made. Well, I don't care (and I think no gamer should care), that's not the focus of the discussion. This site is not about revenues or profits, it's about sales. And we don't see in the charts the labels "Nintendo", "Sony" or "Microsoft". We see "Wii", "PlayStation" and "Xbox". Why don't people do predictions about Nintendo's profits for the next 5 years if that's so interesting and it's what really counts?

Therefore, I understand when people want the WiiU to be the best selling console of the generation (they are cheering for what they like the most). But I don't get it when they proudly say Nintendo was the 1st in profits. Don't they know that means wealth out of the market? That's bad news for any gamer. My focus is on consoles' and games' sales, that's what motivates me (and I believe it's the same for most of people). But when I occasionally think about the companies behind and their profits, I just want Sony and Microsoft to make it the most, not Nintendo (that's what any gamer should whish for).



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

I predict that Nintendo will sell 10 mil Nintendo Wii U's in 2014, making LTS of 15 mil end of 2014.