Always the well thought out and detailed replied.  Love that.

I see where you're going with all of this, but I don't see the kind of total collapse happening that would need to for WiiU to become the defacto console of choice.

More to the point - Let's say you are right and PS4/XB1 go down in even more epic failure than WiiU has had so far.  So the 'next gen' is DOA.  Why wouldn't gamers and 3rd parties just stick with their PS360?  They are all going to switchto WiiU  because of the awesomeness of the gamepad?   I don't think so, not when Nintendo still hasn't caught up with the online services of the others, and not when - as you yourself point out - gamers are already so invested in their current platforms.   What is going to prompt any of them to get a WiiU?   Not for the same games they are already playing and while, yes, a portion will get a WiiU when Zelda, Smash Bros, Kart, X come out (which was never in doubt) unless WiiU starts getting some awesome must-have 3rd party exclusives, there's simply no reason to switch to a system with weaker support, weaker online and requires a new system purchase, new controllers, new friend list, etc., etc.

It's not like Sony/MS are discontinuing those systems and nor will they as long as they keep selling hardware and software.  IF PS4/XBOne fail so be it.  They'll go back to supporting the 7th gen system with games and use tablets to mimic any novel WiiU features.  Or heck, they could make their own gamepads if their was any need to compete on that front.

Furthermore - do not underestimate Kinect 2.0.   That could be far more of a natural sequel to what Nintendo started with Wii than what Nintendo is doing with WiiU.  XB1 could become the 'for everyone' system.   It's the right hardware.   The price is an initial issue but that will drop.  But the right games can bring in the masses.   Now can MS get the 'right games'??   Can they ever make a Wii Sports/Wii Fit?   Dubious but I'll wager more on XB1 becoming the 'for everyone' system than WiiU.  It's much better positioned.  PS4 could have (and should have) gone that route too but foolishly dropped mandatory Move inclusion and while this will get them out the gate faster than XB1 it leaves them with no where to go developmentwise.  PS4 will not create gameplay/graphics not playable on PS3 - I don't think.  So after the initial rush, it will likely too flatline as gamers wait for the games to justify the purchase (with 90% of them still being available on PS3 with marginal loss to graphics/gameplay).    While XBOne titles slowly depend more and more on Kinect 2.0 to enrich the experience, PS4 games won't offer that because too few PS4 owners will own Move. 

Sony has lost this gen before it's even begun.  Unless MS F---ks themselves up, it's thier's too win, or lose. 

Even IF Nintendo starts making games for the expanded market again, they have the hurdle of an unintuitive dual analog controller to get over, the hurdle of the look and feel of the gamepad to core gamers.   While I hear it's all about experiencing the gamepad, I have tried it many times, so have many others on this site and others I know and it's never been compelling to us.   Rayman Legends?  I'd rather play with the Wiimote/Nunchuk, it'd be better suited to it.  NintendoLand - a lot of rehashed ideas that utterly failed to sell me on the gamepad.  Again, I found myself wanting to play some of them on the wiimote/nunchuk instead.  If I wanted to use dual analog, I'd buy 360 games.   Granted, you can't do the asymetrical gameplay (well, you can with 3DS....) that's such a minor loss.  TVii?  Personally, I don't care - I hardly watch TV anymore - I stream most of my content so that's a complete non-issue.  That is a growing trend, so TVii is too little too late to help Nintendo.

For the record I did acknowledge NintendoLand and Game and Wario as needing the gamepad (in an earlier post) to play but those are basically the only games that really require a gamepad to work (and Wii Party U) and those simply aren't worth purchasing a system for.    IF Nintendo had sold the gamepad as an add-on to Wii (I know the hardware probably couldn't support it) then I might have gotten Wii Party U if it came with the gamepad instead of wiimoteplus.   I'd never buy NintendoLand or Game and Wario personally.

Any way you slice it, I don't see WiiU (the system) appealing to anyone, even if Nintendo games do.  The gamepad is an anchor on this ship that's dragging it down both in market appeal and cost/revenue.  The games should not have to compensate for the hardware's lack of appeal.  Nintendo had this same issue with the purple lunchbox and never recovered from that either.

Thanks again, Gamerace. Here we go. Let's see how brief I can keep it this time.

Here's something you're missing about why Microsoft & Sony won't be able to rely on the 360 & PS3 should the One & PS4 totally collapse.
Every month total revenues for the videogame industry decline. And year-to-year comparisons show the 7th gen shrinking by the minute.
I just typed in "revenues down videogame industry" in Google & these articles popped up in the search.

Video game industry sales dropped 25 percent in a year

Video game sales down 22%

Video game retail sales down 22 percent in 2012

'BioShock', 'Tomb Raider' top March video game sales
opening line from article:
"The adventures of Booker DeWitt and Lara Croft were among a few a bright spots in another down month for the video game industry."

Thirty years after the big crash, video game industry facing similar circumstances

Videogame Industry's U.S. Sales Continue Falling In March

U.S. Videogame Sales Drop Again In July

Game industry sees hardware sales plummet 42 percent

The Top Selling Video Games Of 2012 Amid Another Down Year For The Industry

See all that?
When Nintendo pulled Wii (& DS) out of the 7th gen fight, the industry was left with Microsoft & Sony running the show. And you see the results.
Wii masked the problems in the overall industry because it was pulling in stratospheric numbers.
Sales naturally decline as the generation gets old anyway & this has been a long generation to begin with.

The 3rd parties can't stick with PS3 & 360 because revenues (much less profits) are plummeting already.
Gamers can but all they have to do is play what they already have. They don't have to deal with those gross/nets on the ledger sheet.
They don't have to worry about the stockholders. They don't have to try to gauge the future for the company.
Gamers can't play if gamemakers can't make. And gamemakers can't make if the funds to make 'em ain't there.

Nintendo slowly but surely will convert these diehards. The 3rd party will lead them there.
The 3rd party will need to be with Nintendo to sustain their business because the bottom dropped out on the PS4 & the One.
And they can't try to tough it out on the PS3 & 360 because those platforms are undergoing their natural generational market erosion.
And this ain't the friend code-filled Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection. The Nintendo Network is seamless & built to have players connected in ways never done before.
People can have messages seen within gameplay on the Nintendo Network.
Some gamers have been trained to hate Nintendo like Pavlov's Dog by the pro-3rd party gaming press.
But that Pavlovian training will be undone once the rubber meets the road. Gamers follow their favorite games at the end of the day.

Like I just said...Gamers follow their favorite games at the end of the day.
I mentioned in this thread this guy I know at work, late 20s, XBox 360 lover.
Simply due to Monster Hunter he will get a 3DS. Monster Hunter & Dragon Quest brought a lot of people to Nintendo alone.
Bayonetta could bring some more. What other beloved series can Nintendo get on their system?
If the One and/or PS4 become money pits for the 3rd party, do you really think they will just go down with the ship?
They can't go to the old PC market of the desktops/laptops because that market was destroyed by the NES decades ago & the remnants was absorbed into the XBox. Only Maxis & Blizzard can remain entirely on PC & still make money these days.
They won't go to the new PC market of the smartphones/tablets because they can't make back their expenditures trying to sell their games for $1, $2, $5.
Nope. They'll be forced to swallow that bitter pill & move back into Dad's House when the real world got to be too much for them.

Oh & don't think tacking on a Wii U-like controller will help 360 & PS3 match up to Wii U if One & PS4 fall out.
They tacked on Kinect & Move & neither has helped them match what Wii alone put out.
It has to be fully integrated to have a chance. Organically integrated.
Ain't gonna be no luck using iPads & Galaxy Tabs to mimic Wii U either (that would be so sad if they had to resort to that actually).
Tacking on never works. The system must be built around the peripheral to maximize adoption.

XBox One is actually the One most in danger of meeting the grinder.
XBox in its entire history has only really captured one market: the American one.
Granted that's the biggest one but it's only one.
The 360 is under the PS3 in the European market.
It's virtually nonexistent in the Japanese market.

Microsoft can't go on just doing really well in one market, OK in the other, & bombing out of the other one.
And even in the American market it was consistently bested by the Wii so even in its best market it's #2.
The foolishness they pulled at E3 2013 weakens the one market they have the best chance in.
Don Mattrick, President of Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment Business, the guy who was instrumental in the development of the XBox One...
...fired from Microsoft weeks after E3 due to the fallout. Ran to sinking ship Zynga immediately.
They have probably permanently lost most of their base to the PlayStation 4 now & that's fatal for them especially in the Americas.

You know good & well Microsoft doesn't know what to do with Kinect in a videogame sense.
They're not real gamemakers & all they could do was mimic what Wii did. The 3rd party doesn't seem to know what to do with it either.
Kinect has become basically a nice enhancement for the console but most of XBox's base don't use it seriously as a go-to gaming device.
They do what all the non-Nintendo console makers do: they sell TECH.
Nintendo sells FUN, Nintendo sells GAME, Nintendo sells PLAY, Nintendo sells JOY, Nintendo sells GLEE.
XBox One has no chance in hell of being Everyvody's Console & price is only the beginning of the reason why.

Funny thing about Sony. They could bomb all the way out (and they have) yet still survive because they have representation in the 3 major markets.
That's how the PS3 slowly but surely caught up to the 360 in sales then surpassed it. XBox has nothing in Japan.
In Japan it's just the Sony & Nintendo show. The Big 2 not the Big 3.
Japan is STILL the capital of videogaming (thanks to that little playing card company from Kyoto) & the Japan-based 3rd parties will have to make some tough decisions if XBox One drops out first.
Ever-skyrocketing game development budgets demand that 2-platform setup the 3rd party needs to recoup costs (sell 9 million on one, 7 million on the other to get the 16 million to cover costs then profit).
Once even one of those drop out the 3rd party knows it cannot sustain sales on just one non-Nintendo platform.
Those Japanese 3rd parties will probably be THE FIRST to concede the standoff & start putting their AAA efforts on Wii U.

Vita's getting dogged by the 3DS even worse than DS dogged the PSP. But the necessity of keeping up some level of competition keeps Sony in the game.
The Japanese throw a few bones to Sony just to keep Nintendo on their toes.
As long as Japan's the videogaming capital of the world, Sony will hang on by threads.
With PlayStation in the mix, the Japanese developers influence game priority in the rest of the world.
If Japanese 3rd parties start putting out stuff for Sony AND Nintendo in Japan after XBox One drops dead in "The West", they'll start putting out stuff for Sony AND Nintendo OUTSIDE of Japan too.

The failure of the PS3 in its first 2 years lost Sony its entire profits from the eras of the PS1 & PS2! Wiped them OUT!
Yet they're still here even after the bomb-out of the PSPgo & current Vita.
The failure of the PS4 would be DEVASTATING to Sony & I wonder if one more bomb-out could be their last.
Still even with those odds they're poised to last longer than Microsoft who has NO handheld & has NO valid representation in Japan.
And Europe is still fond of the PlayStation.

Either way whichever Nintendo rival drops first, the spoils will end up going to Nintendo since the 3rd party needs that 2-platform setup to make money.
They'll eat that humble pie & let Wii U in on the goodies which in turn brings an extra audience to Wii U.

You weren't impressed by Nintendoland? I'm shocked. I saw so many gameplay possibilities from the game. The panorama view thing for one.
The chase games would make for an easy Cops & Robbers scenario. Cop can see Robbers but Robbers can't see Cop.
BUT add in that Cop has to catch the one with the stolen goods & the Robbers can press a button on Wiimote to secretly pass the stolen goods to another Robber unbeknownst to the Cop.
YET have Cop have control of doors & other access ways to cut Robbers trying to escape using buttons on Upad.
Cop can also use Upad to summon or direct computer-automated backup officers to assist in capturing Robbers.
Take all that I mentioned & insert that kind of thing into a Grand Theft Auto game.
Take it further & make the Upad player the Cop in a Police Helicopter trying to capture the Grand Theft Auto gangsters.
Take it even further & make the Upad player air support in a Call of Duty game.

I already mentioned the EXCELLENT use of Gamepad in Game & Wario with Mona's picture taking game & the 9-Volt game where you play game on Gamepad while simultaneously watching TV to make sure 9-Volt's mama doesn't catch him playing the game.
Gamepad's great for God-mode style games. Mix that with the Wiimotes in multiplayer & you have all sorts of possibilities.
Gamepad player can be the coach detailing plays for the Wiimote/Classic Controller/Pro Controller-playing football players/basketball players.
Gamepad player can be the general directing the action for the Wiimote/Classic/Pro players in Battlefield.
Command & Conquer games on Gamepad. Real-time strategy games REDEFINED on Wii U!
Hell, Gamepad redefines Multiplayer! Local as WELL as Online.
You'll see amazing things with Upad/Wiimote combo in Wii Party & Mario Party that can show you how far gaming could go with the combination.
Camera in Upad where online players can see each other & use their Upad controls to direct their Wiimote/Classic/Pro teams against the other.
Local multiplayer CROSSED with online multiplayer. Not just one guy in a room playing against another guy in a room miles away.
5 people in a room playing 5 people in a room miles away playing with 5 people in a room miles away playing 5 people in a room miles away.
You TELL me that don't excite you & I'll tell you you're dead!

The Upad, the Gamepad makes for an excellent remote control. No need to program codes or hold buttons to set up. It just picks up the signal & goes!
I was amazed at how easy that was.
Nintendo TVii is a nice bonus. Some people still watch TV especially sports fans with their expensive cable/satellite sports packages.
One single Gamepad that can EASILY stand in for all of your remotes & work your TV/DVR.
Non-essential & very uncharacteristic for Nintendo to go so far for a service like this since they're all about selling games overall.
But nice of them to pack it in anyway.
Besides it's free. Who complains about free stuff?

Lots of posts on this thread. I might have missed you saying that about Nintendoland & Game & Wario.
I used to think just like you. I used to think the Gamepad was contradictory & in total opposition to what Wii established.
E3 2013 sent an epiphany, a revelation through me & I finally understood everything.
In one instant it all became clear. Even before I actually touched the system.
You have actually touched the system & still don't see it yet.
Your moment of clarity will come soon enough & you will finally understand it like I do now.
The Gamepad is actually complimentary not contradictory.
Instead of being an anchor that sinks the console to a watery hell, it's gonna be the hot air balloon that rises the console to coin heaven.
Once it gets there, the Starman music will play to show how invincible the system has become.

$350 WAS too expensive. $300 is the right early price & the payoff will soon come in.
Remember my sales predictions every end of the year for the next few years.
All the 'Nintendo Is Doomed' prognosticators will be humbled very soon.

John Lucas

I LOVE it! Good discussion going on. Hey guys, don't let me & Gamerace have all the fun. Jump in here! Anytime.

Let's see here.
How many major console manufacturers are on the market right now? Let's count 'em.
There's Nintendo. That's 1.
There's Microsoft. That's 2.
There's Sony. That's 3.
OK.

How many consoles are there on the market right now? Let's count 'em.
There's the 3DS. That's 1.
The Wii U. That's 2.
The XBox 360. That's 3.
The PlayStation 3. That's 4.
The PlayStation Vita. That's 5.
(Since the Wii are DS are effectively discontinued we won't count them)

So you're expecting 1 console maker out of 3 to prop up the entire videogame industry??? One-third of all makers??? 1/3???
So you're expecting 2 consoles out of 5 to prop up the entire videogame industry??? Two-fifths of all consoles??? 2/5???
Well, of COURSE you are.
Because that's EXACTLY what Nintendo & their consoles did ALL OVER the 7th generation.
And when Wii U comes off the rocky road, that's EXACTLY what you're gonna see all over the 8th generation.
The 3DS is on fire after its rocky road period & the Wii U will soon join its handheld sibling on that smooth-as-silk asphalt.

Oh & one more thing.
This whole thing about generations.

Generations are not about tech.
The console generations speak of MARKET Generations not Tech Generations.
When certain products compete in the same market for buyers.
•That's why the Atari 2600 & the Mattel Intellivision were both considered to be part of the 2nd generation even though the Intellivision was miles ahead of the 2600 in technological prowess.
•Same reason why the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System & the SNK Neo Geo were all considered to be part of the 4th generation even though the Genesis's 512 color palette was embarrassed by the SNES's 32,768 color palette & the Neo Geo made them BOTH look like tinker toys since it could give 100% arcade-to-console conversion.
•Same reason why the Atari Jaguar, the 3DO, the Sega Saturn, the Sony PlayStation & the Nintendo 64 were all considered to be part of the 5th generation even though the Jaguar & the 3DO were trounced by the Saturn & the PS1 technologically & the 64-bit N64 was above even those two 32-bit platforms.
•Same reason why the Nintendo DS & the Sony PlayStation Portable were both considered to be 7th generation handhelds even though the DS was about the same as the 5th-gen N64 graphically & the PSP was about the same as the 6th-gen PS2 graphically.
•Same reason why the Nintendo 3DS & the Sony PlayStation Vita are both considered to be 8th generation handhelds even though the 3DS is just little beyond a 6th-gen Gamecube graphically & the Vita is pretty much a 7th-gen PS3 graphically.

Now that you understand what is meant by the term 'Generations', you will naturally understand that the Wii IS a 7th gen console despite being comparatively weaker than the 360 & PS3.
AND you will naturally understand that the Wii U IS an 8th gen console despite being comparatively weaker than the One & the PS4.
I'm sure you had no problem calling the PlayStation 2 a 6th gen console despite it being comparatively weaker than an XBox & Gamecube, did you?
I assume the same for the comparatively weaker Sega Dreamcast...

I'm sure real estate developers were just as estatic in the late 1990s/early 2000s before the housing bubble burst.
Zynga was one of the forces behind this mobile gaming boom but now the company better call Tom Petty 'cause they're FREE...Free Fallin'.

A sampler:
Zynga loses $15.8M in Q2, nearly half its daily users year-over-year
After Losing Nearly Half Its Users In A Year, Investors Dock Zynga's Valuation By $400 Million
Zynga lays off 18% of staff, closes a few offices
Troubleville: Zynga Lays Off 5% Of Its Workforce, Scraps 13 Games
Zynga reportedly had three top executives resign in July
Zynga in trouble as gamers turn away from Facebook
Zynga's financial troubles worsen, company falling faster than before
Ironic excerpt in last article from everybody's favorite know-nothing Michael Pachter:

"They suck at forecasting," said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities. "Nine weeks ago they thought they’d got [their estimates] down to as low as they could be and now they’re down another 20 percent, which means that their monetization is deteriorating faster than we thought."

He said that while Zynga has added more and more overall users, it is struggling to make money off of them.

Let me tell you why I know everything ain't what it seems on this mobile gaming situation.
Input & Interface. Let's start with that.
The form factor of the tablet is PERFECT for what it needs to do.
TOO perfect. Which means it probably won't undergo any major changes.
The big tablet & the mini-tablet AKA the smartphone are respectively the size of a sheet of notebook paper & the size of a baseball card.
You whip out your easily concealable smartphone from your pocket, from your purse, from your holster & slide your fingers all over that multitouch touchscreen.
You hold your comfortably portable tablet in your lap, on the table, on the bed & slide your fingers all over that multitouch touchscreen.
It can never get any better than this! Don't have to have that hingey awkward contraption known as the laptop with keys that get missing over time.
Not stuck to a computer room like I was with overgrown desktop. This perfect touchable rounded rectangle is all I need it to be.

For most things this is not a bad thing to be.
For videogaming it's the WORST thing to be.

The tablet/smartphone will ALWAYS be that rounded rectangle form with the multitouch touchscreen.
Which means the games on it will ALWAYS end up playing more or less the same.
Videogaming DEPENDS on new ways to play to keep viable.

We went from Odyssey's & Atari PONG's turnknob dials to Atari 2600 joystick on the square with the red action button...
...to NES's plus-sign shaped Control Pad & 2 action buttons on hand-fitting rectangle to SNES's L & R shoulder triggers with 4 color-coded action buttons in diamond layout on an ergonomic dogbone...
...to N64's rumble-ready analog stick with a host of different-sized action buttons, camera buttons, & Z trigger on a 3-grip shape to Gamecube's wireless 2-grip summary version of this design with camera analog stick...
...to Wii's SUPER-VERSATILE remote control-reminiscent motion-controller that doubles as an infrared 'Zapper' that functions as a broken-halves controller when connected to a 1-grip Nunchuk housing an N64 stick, button & trigger that becomes the NES design all over again when turned sideways...

Each one of those input device changes changed the type of games that could played on each respective platform.
Graphics & horsepower at one time added new possibilties to how a game could be designed but input & interface governed WHAT COULD BE better than anything else.
Each controller always had a degree of imperfection. Something that it was missing that could be refined & improved upon later.
The controller was excellent for the games it was designed to play but not so good for other games to be created in the future.
So the change took place when most of the potential was squeezed out of the old design.
And each new change breathed new life into videogaming possibilties. Which inspires new pioneering game design.

Nintendo remains at the forefront of pioneering game design with Wii U & 3DS.

Another reason I know there are limits to mobile gaming's long-term viability is History.
Tablets & mini-tablets AKA smartphones are the latest edition of the PC Market.
The old edition of the PC Market got wrecked decades ago by Nintendo & the PC developers wrecked what was left of it with their policies & practices.
It's an ununified anarchy-based platform.

Some PC developers got so caught up chasing power games that they made themselves boutique—expensive & niche.
You had to become a rocket scientist just to play a game. Rigging your computer with a never-ending set of costly cutting-edge components that would be outdated within months of purchase.
As they became boutique, they tried to protect dwindling sales numbers by controlling how the game was purchased.
The disc has a ticket inside to verify the game & the disc only installs the game. You don't play the game from the disc.
And of course the PC guys think their system is perfect so keyboard & mouse is the preferred way to play. Even though keyboard & mouse are best suited for office functions (data entry, typing text) not playing.
Most PC developers found it so hard to make money purely on the PC platform that they migrated to consoles to actually make a living at this thing.

Other PC developers left behind in the wreckage went away from the powerlust but put out games that sold slowly & in much MUCH MUCH smaller numbers.
Your '100,000 Games' or your 'Train Simulator' style games.
Videogame making on the PC was returning into more of a hobby than a profession.

The fallout was so bad that a new PC market emerged from the World Wide Web accessed through the Internet Browsers of the PC platform.
Gaming portals full of Flash-based, Java-based, & Shockwave-based games; PopCap with their catchy hits, the collections on AOL Games, Yahoo! Games & MSN Games (formerly known as The Village).
Trial plays for free, full game for a price.
With nearly everybody but Amish using the Internet, they make some money based on the sheer numbers of people who play games by website.
But this money pales in comparison to what console gaming brings in & the type of games on browsers have limitations on type of content compared to console games.

Then the phones get smarter & bring this new breed of PC gamemaker to the platform in app form.
Still no physical form, all digital & virtual, but now they are free from the constraints of the browser standards.
Since they priced themselves so low in the browsers with their free trial, they said why not just charge a little bit for the true purchase price & work on the Impulse Buy mentality. It worked for supermarkets so why not us?

But remember the PC is an ununified anarchy-based platform.
These developers are reducing themselves to cheap chocolate bars at the supermarket checkout aisle.
What happens when a clever developer says 50¢ for my games instead of $1? What happens when another says 25¢?
A race to the bottom & before you know it people will think a penny is too much to pay. No price is better than 0. FREE!
Will videogame-making become hobby over profession once again?

Apple's phones are not the same as Windows-powered phones are not the same Android-powered phones.
Apple's computers are not the same as Windows-powered computers are not the same Android-powered computers.
The solid platform really ain't so solid. It's the PC after all! ANARCHY! CHAOS!
Take a look at this:
Angry Birds price slashed to $0.99 on Windows Phone, 6 other title join in promo
Excerpt from article:

"On Android Angry Birds is ad-sponsored and free, but on iOS you need to pay a dollar. On Windows Phone? Three dollars. Up until now that is - Microsoft takes action and slashes the prices of seven popular titles including the Birds and that’s more than welcome."

It's one thing to have a hit or even a few hits. It's another to have a long term STABLE business plan that will ensure you be around for decades instead of a few years.
It doesn't get more stable than Nintendo & that's why console gaming endures. They're the captain of that ship in the creative sense AND the business sense.
Wii U continues this tradition.

The social games bubble is bursting and mobile is next
Choice excerpt:

"I am not a stock market analyst, I am not a professional pundit and I’m certainly not any kind of journalist so why does it feel like I’m one of the few who actually saw this coming? I certainly didn’t see it happening this fast but I was laughed at when I said this type of growth was unsustainable. When companies grow too fast, they tend to crash down hard. It’s the ones that have measured, controlled growth that tend to survive and thrive."

Why not? They put Grand Theft Auto on the DS without a previous base for it. Same with the GBA.
I wish Rockstar WOULD work with Nintendo more.
Rockstar while different in their subject matter takes after Nintendo in the best ways.
They space their games out & only deliver them when they have something fresh to put down.
They even delay games when they're just not ready as was the case with Grand Theft Auto V.
They also try fresh ideas & settings. Not the same ol' same ol' all the time.
The Western Red Dead Redemption, the 1940s L.A. Noire, even Rockstar Table Tennis.
I'd LOVE to see a Grand Theft Auto on Wii U. Think back to The Godfather: Blackhand Edition & then imagine possibilities with Gamepad.
I await the day Rockstar & Nintendo work together. So many good things can come out of it.

Nintendo isn't Sony or Microsoft or any of the 3rd Party Establishement. Nintendo has always been wise with their money.
They know where to strike the balance. They can make excellent high-quality games without breaking the bank to do it.
They were the ones cautioning against that AAA blockbuster mentality from the beginning—since at least the Gamecube era.
Mobile could help mediate the AAA blockbuster mentality but it's the nature of the platform. Too volatile to put all your chips on.
Might as well work with the stable surefire Nintendo who will ensure you get the revenues you need.

We'll meet back here next September & see if you don't see the mass appeal then.
It's possible that I could win Mega Millions tomorrow but how faint is that possibility?
Your best bet in seeing Microsoft actually use Kinect right is in an alternative universe. That's your possibility right there.

The home console business cannot collapse because it is Nintendo's baby.
This is THEIR business. Everybody has forgotten that.
They created this machine from the ashes that Atari & Co. left behind.
They reshaped this business into their image & that's why they have steered console gaming's direction over the decades.
The other guys are the Visitors. Nintendo is the Home Team. Always has been, always will be.
The Visitors will one day leave the field & go home but the Home Team will always be there.

The Cloud won't save you. Input & interface once again. No unity between devices.
That's why consoles succeed. It gets rid of all that extra formatting crap. It's unified & solid within itself.
Microsoft created the XBox to become their own PC/Set-Top Box.
The Cloud destroys them because it removes the need for the actual XBox machine & all its associated devices like Kinect.
And since they're not really gamemakers what are they gonna get from becoming a hosting site for 3rd party games, one of many?
The 3rd parties would probably host their own games themselves & bypass Microsoft altogether.
Makes Microsoft obsolete.

Same with Sony. Sony created the PlayStation to be the gateway for their new media formats like DVD & Blu-ray.
They're here to sell everything Sony produces (like movies & music) using the PlayStation as the front door to Sony's House of Goods.
The Cloud destroys them just the same because they are married to physical formats. They co-created the CD, the DVD, the Blu-ray (UMD was all theirs).
Remember they're the guys who were infamous for DRM. Has everybody forgotten the Sony Rootkit scandal?
They're not full-fledged gamemakers either so they just become one of many services to host 3rd party games which would probably go off on their own.
Removing the need for the actual machine & the associated discs to play in them won't help a struggling Sony in the LEAST.
Makes Sony obsolete.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Sony & Microsoft WERE doing what you just said.
These guys never truly understood console gaming. They never understood what a console is really supposed to be.
Let them put themselves right out of the videogame business with their heads in the clouds.
Nintendo's fine right where they are. Right on solid ground...instead of leaky ships.

Well, panorama vision was new to me. And I don't think no phone ever used that in gaming. Let me know if I'm wrong on that by giving me some examples.
Nice example using Pac-Man Vs.—a Nintendo/Namco collaboration. You're right on that point with the blinded play function.
You'll see that concept further developed on Wii U along with many others.
AND you're right about people moving away from cable slowly but surely. I'm one of them. I cut the cord 3 years ago.
But Nintendo TVii isn't just about regular TV users. It tracks Hulu & Amazon Instant Video too.
And while cable may be eroding you would be surprised at how many people still watch broadcast.
Everybody hasn't left TV solely for the internet yet.

It's more than Nintendo's TV Guide. It fits in with Wii U's viral community-based nature. That Miiverse.
People watching Miley Cyrus twerk at an awards show can send real-time messages to other Wii U friends & share in the reaction.
It brings this part of the internet experience closer to the console. Nice that you admit it's "very cool" because it is.

You WILL see it. Mark my words. And this time next year you'll see that many more people will too with those impressive sales figures Wii U will have.

You would be better off using my predictions. I'll see you at this spot come 2016.
We'll see who got it right.

John Lucas

Man its great to see someone here who isn't blindly hating Nintendo or letting their own bias get in the way of what matters. I enjoy reading your posts as unlike a lot of the "Nintendo is doomed" people, you actually have data to back up your claims.

NO matter what you post Gamerace isn't going to let anything get in the way of their hate for Nintendo. No facts, no amount of data. People like that are beyond reason. They only cherry pick what they can argue but a lot of it isn't backed up by anything unlike your posts.

Look forward to reading more of your topics.

Also Tvii also does Netflix along with Amazon and Hulu.

I think you are downplaying the effect of smartphones / tablets on gaming too much.

The smartphone market is just maturing in terms of gaming.  Developers / publishers are still trying to figure out pricing models (should the games be free, but supported by ads / microtransactions, or should there be a "high" upfront cost).  However, I don't think this is going to hinder things much.

Developers have already found innovative ways to add controls, either by using the gyros / accelerometers, touch screen gestures, or virtual D-pads and buttons.

The hardware improvements happen every year, and it won't be long before they rival the last generation of consoles.

Smartphones and tablets also have many of the easy-to-learn, easy-to-play casual games that I think compete with the Wii audience.

What I think will make things even worse is when parents upgrade their tablets, they can just give their old tablets to their kids.  This is what I am planning to do for my daughter.  There will be no need to buy her a console when the games on the tablet are good enough.  Heck, smartphones and tablets may be the reason the 3DS is also down year-over-year.

I know there is content on the Wii U that you cannot get on smartphones and tablets, but again I feel that the smartphone and tablet content is good enough to steal marketshare away.

As for the "second screen" aspect, I think this is a great idea.  Heck, even Sony (with the PS Vita) and Microsoft (with Smart Glass) are betting that this will be something that gamers want.  Personally I am excited about it.  I'll be happy enough when I can continue my gaming when my wife wants to take over the TV.  However, Nintendo hasn't marketed this feature well at all.  I have only ever seen it used as a glorified controller for the Wii with a bonus screen in the middle.  How can Nintendo expect to sell more when consumers aren't aware of its main features?

What I find troubling is johnlucas reads this news as that it means the videogames industry is now going to die off, and just leave Nintendo alone.  Individuals who are immensely partisan fail to see that their beloved company will get affected by things.  Social and mobile gaming crashing is not good for anyone.  A crash at cheap price point does NOT mean that masses of people are suddently going to go back to $60 a pop for what they had been.  Casual gamers may just be happy with what they have, and just find other stuff to do.  Heck, maybe they go back to boardgames or find other activities.  The news here does NOT mean that Nintendo remains sole survivor.  It stands AT LEAST as much that Nintendo will be dragged under.

johnlucas, to me, is someone caught up in Nintendo's past, and merely looking a longevity as the answer to everything.  Nintendo can end up getting swept under, as anyone else can.

Here is one more thing, about Nintendo, and where they are. johnlucas rah-rahs things and goes with the b_e_l_i_e_v_e bit with Nintendo. What you see as their response to current challenges is 3D in handhelds, and also a second screen for home consoles. The Wii U isn't doing what the Wii did and doesn't show that people want the second screen as a must have feature. And with the 3DS, Nintendo coming out with the 2DS ends up being a sign that 3D isn't want people want either. 3D didn't end up being the next big thing, and the 2DS validates that.

As of now, Nintendo shows leadership in the portable arena, and is not doing much on the console side. johnlucas seems to think, somehow, that smart device gaming is going to implode, and people use their smart devices just to do work, and then they will all jump on the Nintendo bandwagon. Heck, for all I know johnlucas will believe that people are going to stop buying tablets and buy the 2DS instead, because surfing the web and all that is just a fad, while playing the next Miyamoto title is a MUST DO.

Reality isn't showing differentiators Nintendo is offering is what people want at all.

First of all the 2DS isn't Nintendo admitting that the 3D in 3DS was completely not wanted.  The 2DS is mainly for kids.  They took out the hinge which kids would break and they took out the 3D because kids under 8 or so shouldn't use the 3D effect.  Also, some adults can't see 3D or don't care for it.  Was 3D completely as waste of time and money?  No, because some people actually enjoy it.  I've been using the 3D less with Animal Crossing but I used to have it on a majority of time.  The limited sweet spot is what makes me turn it off most of the times (when I am laying down in bed or have contacts out then I don't use 3D effect). 

Keep up the smartphone and tablet drum beat.  People that want quality games know they can usually trust Nintendo.  Most smartphone games I've played or bought just don't come close to most full retail 3DS games in quality and fun factor.  The games I played the most on smartphones (Game Dev Story and Operation Barbarossa) are fun but still don't come close to anything I've experienced on the 3DS.  Sure they are losing consumers to smartphones and tablets but there is still a decent consumer base that wants to play quality games and not have to sift through tons of shit games to find the "gems" on Android and iOS markets.

Thank you, ListerOfSmeg.
Thanks to all who complimented on this thread as a matter of fact. I'm really honored.
Even thanks to my skeptics & debaters. All of you have made this thread hot & I appreciate that greatly.
Love to see good conversation!

ListerOfSmeg, I always try to back up what I say with some hard data or logical conclusion.
Debaters may say I'm reading the data wrong but they cannot dispute that I delivered the hard data.
Gamerace remembers me from my first days on this site in 2007.
We go way back. We've passed messages on Wii to each other before.
It's fun debating with him.

I enjoy disassembling his points & delivering a GOTCHA to what he says line by line.
If I agree with a point he made I'll give him his props.
But if I disagree with his conclusion he will see my DETAILED rebuttal.

It's easy to jump on Nintendo now when Wii U's riding the rocky road. A big ol' pile on.
That's when I'm at my best! When Nintendo's under siege.
That's when I love to defy the oxymoron known as "conventional wisdom" & shatter the current narrative into pieces.
And not just in a mild way. I go ALL THE WAY OUT! OVER THE TOP Starring Sylvester Stallone!
No hemming & hawing. No weasel words. No wimp-out stuff from me. I lay it out flat & plain. No half-steppin'!
And I love it when people say the effect of "You're crazy! You're nuts!" as much as I do those who approve of what I say.

I want people to think about matters in a way they never thought of before & that's the approach I take when I post stuff like this.
Thanks again, ListerOfSmeg, & stay tuned. Gonna be some more hot conversation in this thread.
John Lucas