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Fusioncode said:
I really don't understand why you think the WiiU is going to be THIS successful. Once again the system is facing rather limited 3rd party support, and it's only going to get worse. Wii managed without 3rd party support because the console hyped beyond belief and everybody and their mother wanted one. The WiiU doesn't have this effect. There's nowhere near the level of hype that the Wii had in it's first year on the market, as evidenced by the awful sales.

Smash Bros and Mario Kart will bring in some console sales but it would be more on the level of N64 and Gamecube. Mainly Nintendo gamers would be buying it. I also don't understand why you keep comparing the WiiU to the 3DS. The 3DS exploded because it's been getting tons of 3rd party support, not just Nintendo games. The WiiU will survive the same way the GameCube survived, first party support. With that I doubt it will reach over 50m sales.

Sorry for my pessimism but if you're going to say that the WiiU is going to sell 200m consoles and destroy it's competition then you need to back it up with some facts not just hopes and wishes.


I'll have more time this weekend to break things down but for now I'll say this.
You doubt the power of Wii U.
Wii U will make a believer out of you.

I showed in my initial post that Nintendo is PROVEN to succeed by themselves alone. Their aim is about finishing Wii's mission to transform the current state of the gamer audience.
One reason Wii U currently struggles is because original Wii was understandable by sight alone. Wii U has to be held to understand what it's about.

It's a slow running vehicle that will eventually hit top speed. Keep your eye on the next 12 months. Pikmin 3 alone has already got the engine purring.
John Lucas



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!

 

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Wii U Deluxe Price Drop to $300 

Capcom and Nintendo Collab Megaman Legends 3

WWHD Bundle Deluxe with Hyrule Historia gives you game 2 weeks early

Third Sonic Game Sonic Adventure 3

 

Nintendo wins the generation! 

Also, China.



I think its extremely premature write off the Wii U as of yet. I think we are heading into an era where new type of games, with smaller budget, and a gameplay fusion of console and tablet controls coming into the horizon. The best example would be one of my favorite games, Warhammer. This type of game has always been more suitable to PC than consoles and the primary reason is because the controller is so limited. Imagine playing Warhammer on the Wii U, or Age of Empires, it would be so much easier to place your soldiers, scroll the map, manage multiple locations, strategize and navigate on the gamepad. I think strategy MMOs will find their home on the Wii U in a few years time. The Wii U is perfect for those kind of games.



johnlucas said:

Hello everybody out here in VGChartz Land! Many of you may not remember me. It's been so long since I posted here.
My name is John Lucas & I'm here to tell you what Wii U REALLY means & REALLY represents.

Before I get into the topic title, let me take you all the way back to March 14th, 2007 with my very first post at this site (back when it was spelled VGCharts.org with an 'S').

A poster named PS4 had just made a post called "Worldwide Wii sales are now only 4 million behind Xbox 360 - closing the gap".
I had been lurking around the place for awhile looking for a good place to talk about videogame sales (this was much better than NextGenWars.com!).
After listening to so many folks doubting Wii's ability to surpass the XBox 360, I finally decide to say my piece:

"I'm laughing at all the posts that say Wii can't beat XBox 360 this year. LAUGHING! Have you people been paying attention to these charts? If VGCharts.org's figures are correct, Wii is gonna pass XBox 360 within the SUMMER! YES! They will surpass XBox 360 by the summer. XBox 360 has been at that 9 million mark for a while now while Wii seems to move a million a month!...

...In fact Wii has been underestimated on every level & THAT will be the mistake that will haunt the competition & the naysayers. It was played that way on purpose and we are seeing the results on the sales charts. I mean once Super Mario Galaxy comes out this holiday season & Nintendo unveils their full online playable titles we will be seeing NEW shortages & sellouts that will make Wii's representation on the charts baffling dumbfounding to disbelief! I predict by end of year we'll be seeing Wii be on its way to that 20 million mark probably even passed that. That is not hyperbole. Half a year they sell 10 million so why do you think the other half they can't sell 10 million? You know holiday sales give a little more oomph than rest of year, right?"

INSTANTLY this bold proclamation was challenged by a poster named The Source & I UNDERLINE my statement even further:

"Well that's what I'm proposing. I see Wii besting the 360 within the month of July. By August We will see Wii pulling ahead...

...But I guarantee you that we won't have to wait 'til fall to see Wii catching the 360. It will be the worldwide leader this summer I guarantee you. By holiday season will be start of its domination period which will carry it all the way through this generation as top system. By then it's not just gonna outsell the competition it's gonna overshadow the competition. You'll be seeing me on these boards, trust me. Just wait and see what the numbers say to see if I'm full of hot air or some other type of 'substance'. I call it for July. That's when we'll see Wii catch the 360. I call it for 20 million at Dec 31, 2007. That's the worldwide tally of sales for Wii. We'll just have to see if I'm right. I don't play the caution game when I see a sure thing. I don't like hedging bets. I'm very confident in my predictions."

In time I went on to make my 60 million worldwide Wii sales call for the end of 2008 & everybody's favorite—my 240 million minimum/500 million maximum call for lifetime worldwide Wii sales, among other mind-shattering proclamations.

As we all know now, the Wii did NOT make that 240 million in lifetime sales. DESPITE the fact that it was tracking above every record Sony's mega-selling PlayStation 2 put on the books.
Wii was the fastest selling home console in videogame history & was breaking records like Michael Jackson's Thriller, the best-selling album of all time. So what happened?

 

 

I admit I was thrown all the way off by Nintendo's sudden abandonment of the Wii platform, of the Wii Mission if you will.
Two straight years being virtually unseen on the shelves shattering sales records while revolutionizing the videogaming pastime all the way.
2009 saw Nintendo take a small break in the middle of the year & the sales reflected their breather. Still great sales but the numbers were coming a little bit more down to earth than the stratospheric numbers they had been putting up (they defied the traditional summer slump in years past).
But at the end of 2009 here comes the landmark New Super Mario Bros. Wii & Nintendo returns to outer space!
December 2009 saw the greatest monthly console sales in videogame history as Nintendo sold over 3.8 million Wiis!
Wii OBLITERATES the previous 2.7 million record the PS2 made in December 2002 while its handheld companion DS bests its own record of all-time best monthly handheld sales with over 3.3 million sold!

No one could stop Nintendo with all the HD in the world.
It didn't matter that most of the 3rd party developers revolted & protested the Wii.
And trust me it really wasn't about Wii's horsepower why the 3rd party refused to put their best efforts on Wii.
Then the inevitable effects of the Nintendo Revolution took place as Microsoft unveiled Kinect & Sony unveiled Move in 2010.
Suddenly the 360's Blades became Avatars (dashed from that board, eh?) & Kevin Butler did all he could to hardsell the marvel of motion control.
Now that the others finally caught up with the Future of Gaming, everyone was sure that Wii was cooked (especially with Nintendo taking another break that summer).

Following Sony's PS3 Slim example, Microsoft put a woman's waist on their console, fixed up the Red Rings, called it the XBox 360 S & soon premature headlines saying the 360 beat the Wii for the holidays AND ALL of 2010 were plastered EVERYWHERE in the press.
What did Nintendo do in response?
They simply painted the console red, packed in New Super Mario Bros. Wii extra, & had the SECOND greatest monthly home console sales in the 7th Generation with nearly 2.4 million Wiis sold!
Needless to say Wii beat the 360 that month...and that year ('but but the 360 beat 'em in revenue! revenue!' cried the sad backtrackers).

With a simple paint job Wii defeated the HD Twins yet again & continued to epitomize The Little Engine That Could.
For God's sakes! Nintendo put out a then-18 year old SNES remake/compilation of the Super Mario Bros. trilogy called Super Mario All-Stars, slapped a 1985-era pixel of Mario on the box, & sold this mutha OUT!!
A reissue/port of a remake/reissue & it sold every last box!
This system was STILL HOT!

2011 should have been the year Nintendo pushed the Wii harder than ever before to break the 3rd party's obstinance.
Instead...they quit. They just quit. They stop striking. They stop fighting The Revolution.
Apple & the rest of the smartphone/tablet gang absorb & replicate what Nintendo did on DS & Wii throwing Nintendo off their game in the process.
Nintendo abruptly puts out the 3DS to answer Apple, Samsung, & the gang & the whole affair seems to take their eye off Wii (and really what's with that lame "Family Edition" Wii crap anyhow?).
They also seem to abandon some of their tried & true tenets in the rush (example: software determines fate of hardware AKA games sell systems).
Launching a console at THAT price? With no pack-in? No must have games at launch? Slow to build library?
And those boring colors on top of that?
It led to the first yearly loss for the resource-smart company since 1981—when Donkey Kong arcade came out (the game that locked them on the map).

 

 

Then Nintendo announces Project Café, the console soon to be known as Wii U.
It looks to be a reversal of everything Nintendo acheived with Wii. A total contradiction in every way.
Wii was intended to be Everybody's Console. Wii U is aimed to be for the so-called "Hardcore".
Wii gave us the freedom & versalitiy of the Wiimote freeing us from the NES plank standard we've been under since the mid-1980s.
Wii U wants to put us right back on that plank except that the plank has a touchscreen in the middle this time.
The name Wii signified simplicity, brevity, & universal appeal. The name Wii U adds complexity, confusion, & consternation.
Wii = We = Plural First-Person. Inclusivity. U = You = Singular Second-Person. Exclusivity.
Even phonetically they contradict! Wii = oo-EE. { u-I }. U = ee-OO. { i-U }.

They follow Microsoft & Sony's bad habits making 2 functionally different models of the same console instead of following Reggie Fils-Aime's announcement of one console, one color, one configuration like they did for the Wii.
It was one thing to have a Deluxe Set of a Nintendo console in the past because the deluxe part covered the games & accessories.
But the console was exactly the same in both packages so you could build your way up to having what the deluxe set had without having an substandard version of a console to deal with. I can deal with a color difference but not a function difference.

Hold on. What's this? They're launching first?! They always launch last! Basic is $300, Deluxe is $350?! They never go past $200-$250! They're selling Wii U at a loss?! They ALWAYS sell their console at a profit from day one! Games cost a maximum of $60 now?! Don't go higher Nintendo! Cheaper pricing is KEY to your success! Shouldn't have gone up on 3DS game prices either! You're fighting the smartphones! Use your head! I thought Nintendo was losing their identity with these moves. Were they trying to be too much like Microsoft's & Sony's consoles? 32GB internal storage won't impress those 360-heads. OK, good touch with adding an external hard drive to make up the difference. And I am intrigued with the tablet controller's ability to take the game off the TV & keep going (along with its videochat features).
But seriously Nintendo, the graphic whores want you to break the bank to get what they think are cutting edge visuals.
Iwata you said yourself that "the time when horsepower alone made an important difference is over." How do you think you're gonna wow these PS3 kids launching first knowing that Microsoft & Sony will copy anything that could give Wii U an advantage? All they understand is more horsepower & they're gonna put it in their new XBox & new PlayStation. OK, EXCELLENT move with having absolute full backward compatibility with Wii. No need to buy new Wiimotes or anything else. I like that.
And absorbing the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection into the new seamless Nintendo Network is an excellent move as well (why did you kill WiiConnect24 though? Absolutely makes no sense!).
Still it doesn't make sense to have 2 functionally different Wii U models, to launch first, to launch at that high price, to sell it at a loss, to sell games at $60 max.

I was a little disgusted at Nintendo quite frankly. They threw away the phenomenon of the Wii to do this??? They prevented Wii from becoming the best-selling home console of all time to do this??? I wasn't getting either the 3DS or the Wii U until Nintendo got their act together. Nintendo soon made the biggest price cut in recent memory when they slashed $80 off of that ridiculous $250 price for the 3DS & started getting some choice games on the shelf along with some better colors. THAT'S more like it, Nintendo.
Still hate the game prices but this is better than what you had been doing.
Wii U makes its debut. They start strong with New Super Mario Bros. U at launch. I'm hearing the buzz about Zombi U as well as the missed opportunity with that Walking Dead game. Then Wii U stagnates. See? You're getting away from your tenets Nintendo & you're paying the price for it. Soon the "Nintendo Is Doomed" chants start appearing everywhere. 3rd party developers STILL refuse on developing for Wii U despite all the things Nintendo did to placate them. Even as 3DS made the turn around, I was absolutely confused on what Nintendo was trying to accomplish in this new generation. Cannibalizing & sacrificing Wii in its prime for the Wii U & getting these returns???

 

 

It wasn't until E3 2013 & the unveiling of Microsoft's XBox One that it all came together for me.
That XBox One presentation sent a bolt of lightning through my mind & now I knew why Nintendo did what they have been doing the past couple of years.
The irresponsibility of Microsoft with those disastrous DRM policies signaled their inability of ever becoming the leader of this business while underlining why Nintendo remains the leader.
It showed the ultimate end if the 3rd party developers ever got full command of this business.
Sony was getting nowhere with the PlayStation Vita (even though I liked their approach this time around) & it proved that they really don't have what it takes to challenge Nintendo in the handheld realm much less challenge the onslaught of the smartphones. People hacked their PSPs to play Nintendo games on them for God's sake!
Sony's & Microsoft's platforms were always 3rd party-centric since Sony & Microsoft are not necessarily gamemakers at heart.
Nintendo's platforms are always 1st party-centric since Nintendo IS a gamemaker at heart.

We have been at this crossroads between the 1st/2nd party & the 3rd party ever since the Exodus to the PlayStation in the mid-1990s.
Nintendo proved that they could virtually go it alone & not just survive but succeed beyond imagination.
And this TERRIFIES the 3rd party developers.
THAT'S the REAL reason why they didn't get behind Wii. Politics not horsepower.
So why did the 3rd party sabotage the Nintendo Revolution?
Because of one of my favorite sayings: 1st party + 2nd party + 3rd party = Nintendo's party.
If the 3rd parties ever got square behind Nintendo with support, they lose their political leverage in the business.
Microsoft's & Sony's platforms are the vehicles for their political leverage & with the XBox One you got a taste of things to come should they run this industry outright.

VGChartz's Game Database tells the Absolute Truth: Nintendo RULES the best-selling games of all-time.
You have to be the biggest of the biggest 3rd party titles like Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty to even be seen near the top of that list. And that doesn't even start until #16 with PS2's Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. That means the Top 10 of all time are all Nintendo (And the Top 50/Top 100 are MOSTLY Nintendo).
Jak & Daxter, Killzone are nice. Forza Motorsport & Fable are decent. But NOTHING Sony's & Microsoft's 1st party teams put out can compare to the power of Nintendo's 1st party. The closest they ever got was with Gran Turismo & Halo.
One series a piece from them vs. many from Nintendo.
Nintendo sold you homework, called it Brain Age, & sold 20 million a piece EASY. Hardly no big graphics on that game.
They came up an exercising routine, packed in a bathroom scale that also measures balance, called it Wii Fit & sold 40 million altogether. Limited graphics there too.
Don't even get me started on Pokémon. It's so big it's got its own company within Nintendo.
Look for 'The Pokémon Company' on the label.
In order for the 3rd parties to even see Nintendo's milestones reliably they have to sell on multiple platforms.
Nintendo sells on just one: their own.
And how much marketing money goes into hyping up these games to make these sales compared to Nintendo's marketing?

Don't think the 3rd parties aren't aware of this. Don't think it doesn't horrify them. They're scared of Nintendo. Absolutely in fear. The gaming press promotes Sony's & Microsoft's platforms out the wazoo while usually throwing shade on anything Nintendo produces. They write the hierachies of platforms on the front page often writing Nintendo's last in the lineup. Gamestop puts Nintendo merchandise to the back of the store in a smaller space. And it doesn't matter. Nintendo still sells. You always hear calls for Nintendo to "get out of the hardware business", to "start making software for the other consoles like Sega", to "go handheld only". When they have absolutely no need to with the resources they have. The 3rd party needs this kind of noise to stand a chance.

I said it before, I'll say it again. Nintendo is Dad. The 3rd Party are The Kids. In the NES days The Kids had to abide by Dad's Rules in Dad's House. And The Kids always chafed at Dad's Rules. They spent some time at next door neighbor Sega's house but even though Sega was a little more lenient than Pops, Sega had his rules too. But when they had a chance to hang out with Uncle Sony, The Kids fled Dad's House & only visited Dad on THEIR terms. Uncle Sony let them run the household anyway they wanted & they got used to calling the shots. Staying up late hours partying through the night. Binge drinking & other wild reckless behavior. FREEDOM!
Then the flashy big spender Mr. Microsoft moved into town. They left Uncle Sony's house in shambles as they started gallivanting around with this pimp dressed in green. They became unhealthy & destructive the more they hung out with Mr. Microsoft as opposed to the relatively mild mayhem they made at Uncle Sony's House. Dad worried about his Kids' future offered them a place to come home. He would be a kindler gentler Dad than the sterner one he was before. Wii are Family, Dad said. But The Kids have been out on their own too long & are committed to their self-destructive cycle.
The Family can't die & now Dad is going to stage an intervention.

 

 

UNITY. That is what the 'U' in 'Wii U' stands for. This is what the Wii U is all about.

Nintendo is aiming to make this THE LAST CONSOLE WAR.

They aborted the Wii to continue The Revolution in the Wii U.
A very brutal version of their Third Pillar strategy that we saw with the DS overshadowing the GBA in its prime.

Iwata told you in 2004 at E3, "The time when horsepower alone made an important difference is over."
It is. And Wii proved it over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over again. DS proved it against the PSP. 3DS is proving it against the Vita.
That's why Wii U gets just a little above the PS3 & 360 on graphics.
This is not the era of the NES-to-SNES when the jump from 8-bit to 16-bit made you go "WOW!".
This is not the era of the SNES-to-N64 when the jump from 2D sprites to 3D polygons made you go "WOW!".
This is not the era of the N64-to-Gamecube when the 'smoothening' of the polygons made you go "YEAH!".
Once the 7th gen refined graphical displays to where you can draw a cartoonish depiction or a realistic depiction direct from imagination & it was accurate, that was the basic end of graphics. Sure they could always be refined more in the future but the payoff is much less. Law of Diminishing Returns.
Nintendo finally gave you HD visuals when creating HD visuals was more affordable. The Unity Engine allows easier portability of 3rd party franchises to Wii U platform with the common developer tools. This will result in less expensive, company-destroying game budgets as well as the reliance on overly-expensive budgets to sell games.

It used to be called Squaresoft & Enix. Now it's Square-Enix. It used to be called Namco. Now it's Namco-Bandai. It used to be called Sega. Now it's Sega-Sammy. Midway is dead. THQ is dead. Hudson Soft is dead/absorbed. Konami has shrunk in output. Capcom has become greedy. Activision & Electronic Arts have bought/is buying/will be buying out almost every smaller studio they can get their hands on & locking up nearly all of American game development (and not for the better).
Relying on the big budget blockbuster just to make sales is unsustainable & making games just to fit the fiscal calendar is irresponsible.
Nintendo delayed the Zelda for the Nintendo 64 launch simply because it wasn't ready. We got Ocarina of Time as a result.
Imagine if Sega did the same thing with Aliens: Colonial Marines. Imagine if more game companies took this approach.

Wii saved the industry from the crash in the 7th generation (remember when it was known for 99% of the industry's entire growth) but the 3rd parties are hell bent on creating the same crash in the 8th generation. The only responsible one around here is Nintendo.
They created Wii U the way they did to cover all of the bases. Look at that Pro Controller for a second. It's the XBox 360 version of the NES Standard designed to reel in all of those 360 players who refuse to touch a Wii controller. Look at that Wii U tablet controller AKA the GamePad. It's there to tap into the iPad fans drawing them into Nintendo's world. Wii U is fully backward compatible with Wii so they will retain their old audience while giving them new features to play along with.
They have the seamless Nintendo Network now so no more complaining about friend codes.
Even at $350 it's still cheaper than what the PlayStation 4 & XBox One are offering & even at $60 their games will be cheaper than the others.
And the early start gives them more room to drop the price against the PS4 & the One when they launch.

It's true that they bungled up the transition from DS to 3DS & Wii to Wii U. That's the reason for the setback. Nobody's perfect.
But mark my words Wii U will be on the SAME TRAJECTORY as the 3DS when this is all said & done.

I said it here. I say it now.
Wii U WILL BE THE LEADER of the 8th Generation Consoles BY FAR. It will outsell the XBox One & PlayStation 4 HANDILY throughout the generation.
And should The Revolution go as planned, this will be the LAST CONSOLE WAR between Nintendo, Sony, & Microsoft.
Wii U obtains what was denied to Wii. Wii U at last becomes EVERYBODY'S CONSOLE.

Oh & you want a number? Here's one for you: 12 million Wii U's sold by December 31, 2013.
Here's another: 35 million Wii U's sold by December 31, 2014.
Here's one more: 60 million Wii U's sold by December 31, 2015.
And one more for the road: 240 million LIFETIME Wii U sales.

Wii U is 'Wii Part 2'. This standoff must end. The Kids are coming home off the streets.
Nintendo will finish The Revolution through Wii U & bring Unity to the gaming industry at last.
No more Hardcore vs. Casual. It's just Gamers.
While Nintendo is proven to succeed WITHOUT the 3rd party, this long standing division in the game industry must finally be healed.

Remember now, what object is shaped like a 'U'?.......A Magnet. Think about that.
It's all about Dad's House. The 1st Party STILL rules.

John Lucas





How did I miss this thread until now?

Ah... my good friend John Lucas - bold purveyor of uncommon logic (often at the expense of common logic).

I largely agree with your analogy of the console industry and Nintendo's stand on it.

However, I'm otherwise in agreement with richardhutnik.

Apple has upended the table and the games industry is no longer the one Nintendo created or reshaped with Wii.
iOS/Android are creating a new paradigm on what games are and mean to people. They have done what Nintendo only dreamed - made video gaming a universal experience shared by (almost) everyone on the planet.

People here bury their heads denying that those Angry Bird/Temple Run running devices will ever threaten their professed love (console gaming). But their viewpoints are limited.

The children of today are growing up playing on tablets and smartphones. Bastard controls and all - and loving it. They expect to be able to get a new game anytime for next to nothing. The best mobile games are the ones that master what Nintendo does so well - fun, engaging experiences that keep you coming back for more. Not story, not graphics and not cut-scenes. Gamecrafting, pure gamescrafting. The biggest mobile games are played by 100's of millions of people. That dwarfs anything Nintendo has ever done. Even their profit margins dwarf Nintendo's best. But these are upstarts and some will crash but others will last and grow, and become the titans of tomorrow.

While the old dinosaurs are fighting each other as their time on earth wanes, the rodents are evolving at an alarming pace. Nintendo has chosen not to be a dinosaur, but it's no rodent. It's still working on the rules in place before Apple up-ended the table. That's why WiiU is failing. It's addressing old realities when it needed to be addressing the future realities.

Nintendo has placed themselves in a no-man's land. Too core for casual, too casual for core, too primate for touch users, too gimmicky for traditional gamers.

We all know (although some here will never admit to) that Nintendo's classic franchises (Mario, Zelda, Kart, Smash) can't lift a home console over GC/N64 numbers (and they both had much better 3rd party support). Nintendo burned their bridge with the casuals by abandoning the Revolution and then bringing back the dual analog controller. Core players won't buy without massive 3rd party support so who is going to buy this system?

You make no argument as to why anyone (aside from the diehards) will want a WiiU. Supposedly they simply will once they realize the misguided nature of MS/Sony? No. If and when those 3rd party companies implode the former developers will regroup as new mobile game makers. We have seen this happen already, again and again. Many of the brightest minds have moved to mobile for the creative freedom it allows. What does Nintendo have to offer them to entice them to WiiU? Nintendo diehards who hardly buy anything outside of Nintendo IPs? No.

The casual market has rejected the WiiU. They are content with their mobile gaming offerings and as those offerings develop and power increase, more mid-core players will turn to mobile as well, and then finally, the core will come because there will be games simply too good to miss. Where is Nintendo in this? Selling $60 games with an antiquated controller? No.

Nintendo still has a shot to make a difference and be the bridge builder you (and they themselves) foresee them being but WiiU won't be the vehicle that gets them there. It will be what comes next (or it won't be at all).



 

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Well John. If you're going to be proven right this year, September's price drop and release schedule will prove it.

I can't wait to update my sales comparison thread throughout that month.



This... This is beautiful. I knew Nintendo had a relaunch planned. I still predict a Wii Fit U and Super Mario 3D World Bundle. Do that and market the hell out of this, and they'll literally outshine the competition. Always let them think they're ahead before you strike and strike hard.

The Nintendomination is has started, and it shall spare no casualties.

Sony: We have one million pre-orders.

One for each of our troops.

Nintendo: We have a Hulk:

New Wii U Zelda Bundle + New 2DS + Pokemon X/Y + Free online = Still cheaper than the Xbox One.

New Wii U Zelda Bundle + Free online = $100+ cheaper than the PS4.

Vita: I'm so glad I finally got a price cut! :) Now my sales can finally pick up!

Nintendo: Lets release a new 2DS for $70 cheaper than the Vita on the same day as Pokemon X and Y, the latest edition to the most powerful handheld franchise in the world and the second best selling video game franchise of all time, because WHY THE FUCK NOT?

Vita: FUUUUUUUUUU-!!!!!

I rest my case.



Well, this is new.

Read.

Only a few more months, and we will see if johnlucas was right. Gonna be funzies! Will sales explode with the release of Super Mario 3D World like it did with the release of Super Mario Galaxy? We'll soon see.



Incubi said:
Only a few more months, and we will see if johnlucas was right. Gonna be funzies! Will sales explode with the release of Super Mario 3D World like it did with the release of Super Mario Galaxy? We'll soon see.


What sales explosion are you referring too?  Wii was constantly sold out everywhere for practically two years which had way more to do with Wii Sports (80m) and Wii Fit (40m) than SMG (10m).   Considering Nintendo was selling Wiis as fast as they could make them at that point (prior to SMG release) there's no basis for saying it caused any increase at all (although, for sure it didn't hurt any!) let alone an 'explosion'.   Use Mario Sunshine as a more meaningful example.



 

Gamerace said:
How did I miss this thread until now?

Ah... my good friend John Lucas - bold purveyor of uncommon logic (often at the expense of common logic).

I largely agree with your analogy of the console industry and Nintendo's stand on it.

However, I'm otherwise in agreement with richardhutnik.

Apple has upended the table and the games industry is no longer the one Nintendo created or reshaped with Wii.
iOS/Android are creating a new paradigm on what games are and mean to people. They have done what Nintendo only dreamed - made video gaming a universal experience shared by (almost) everyone on the planet.

People here bury their heads denying that those Angry Bird/Temple Run running devices will ever threaten their professed love (console gaming). But their viewpoints are limited.

The children of today are growing up playing on tablets and smartphones. Bastard controls and all - and loving it. They expect to be able to get a new game anytime for next to nothing. The best mobile games are the ones that master what Nintendo does so well - fun, engaging experiences that keep you coming back for more. Not story, not graphics and not cut-scenes. Gamecrafting, pure gamescrafting. The biggest mobile games are played by 100's of millions of people. That dwarfs anything Nintendo has ever done. Even their profit margins dwarf Nintendo's best. But these are upstarts and some will crash but others will last and grow, and become the titans of tomorrow.

While the old dinosaurs are fighting each other as their time on earth wanes, the rodents are evolving at an alarming pace. Nintendo has chosen not to be a dinosaur, but it's no rodent. It's still working on the rules in place before Apple up-ended the table. That's why WiiU is failing. It's addressing old realities when it needed to be addressing the future realities.

Gamerace, nice to hear from you again.
You said a lot here so let me answer thoroughly.

It is true. Apple & the smartphone gang disrupted Nintendo. They rocked them good.
Like I said in the thread they absorbed what Nintendo started with DS & Wii then employed it for their own benefit.
Nintendo first tried to cut them off with the DSi. It does pretty much everything a smartphone does except make calls.
For example I use my DSi like some people use their smartphones (I don't own any cell phone or smartphone).

There's the Nintendo Countdown Calendar to track important dates; there's the Animal Crossing & Mario Calculators to add things up; there's the Animal Crossing, Mario, & Photo Clocks to use as an alarm to wake up (not to mention the default alarm in all DS's); there's the DSi Cameras to take pictures; there's DSi Sound to play music from your SD Card; there's various keyboard apps like 'Music on' which allow you to play a song; there's the DSi Instrument Tuner to help you sing on key; there's the DSi Metronome to help you keep on beat; there's Flipnote Studio to make animations; there's Pictochat to write messages on; there's various apps like myPostcards, myNotebook, & myDiary to write notes & memos on; there's the Internet Browser to check whatever you need online (like bank account, Wikipedia, sports scores, whatever).
Add all the onboard & offboard games to the list & you have a pretty robust system.
All it doesn't do is make phone calls. It pretty much does everything else.

Wasn't enough to stop the smartphones so Nintendo put together the 3DS which has all the functionality of the DSi along with a whole new set of functions.
A stronger Internet Browser, 3D Cameras that allow video recording, Swapnote being more versatile than Pictochat, Game Notes which allow you to write notes & memos, all of it powered by the very versatile StreetPass & SpotPass functions of the handheld.
Once again add in all the onboard & offboard games to the list & you'll find that it does pretty much everything else except make phone calls.

But the 3DS can only parallel the smartphone gang, never eliminate them. Why?
Because the smartphones & their bigger brothers the tablets represent the NEW PC market.
This new PC market finally figured out how to CONSOLE-IZE the Personal Computer.
The desktops & laptops are heavy duty machines that can never really be as accessible as a console is whether handheld or home-based.
They still have roots in office functions, business functions. They're workhorses. And it's hard to make a workhorse a fun machine.
Tablets & smartphones (which are just mini-tablets anyway) are simplified & not usable for heavy duty use.

But most people never used the computer to its full capacity anyhow. They use it to browse the Web & look at Facebook or Instagram or YouTube.
They use it to play on-board Solitaire, Hearts, Minesweeper, & a host of Web-based games. Even less write documents or notes on it.
They used to send e-mails on it. They may have went on Instant Messenger programs like Yahoo Messenger. Some go to Adult Friend Finder & other meat market services. They use it for porn viewing. They use it for the chatrooms. Maybe some print things from it. Maybe some pay their bills online.
But for the most part, most people don't deal heavily with the full functions of a computer.
And the stuff most people use it for is a result of the emergence of the World Wide Web.

This makes the simplified console-ized tablet & mini-tablet (smartphone) perfect.
You don't need heavy storage because most computer users wouldn't know what to do with all that space anyway.
Let the cloud take care of everything. Simpler form factor, sleeker aesthetics, easier to understand interface.
Nintendo's DS line has the laptop form-factor with its foldable ends. Good for protecting screens but whipping out a glass-faced baseball card & just running your finger across it is simpler & easier to get to than the DS's open-up & stylus-touch format.
The glass-faced baseball card is easier to store in a pocket too. Never mind how fragile most of these phones are.
My DSi fell on hard concrete from 6 feet up & didn't have a scratch on it much less a cracked screen.
Doesn't matter. People want the sleeker form factor & accessibility of the smartphone over the durability of a DS.

Yes these days the kids are playing on smartphones & tablets of one brand or another. It's true.
But remember what happened 30 years ago (28 to be exact).
This little Japanese company named Nintendo held off the omnipresent home computer & created the current reality we live in now where consoles even EXIST.
Consoles should have been dead 30 years ago. The kids were playing on home computers back then since you could do your homework on it AND play games too. Commodore 64, Amiga, Atari ST, MSX, BBC Micro, Sinclair ZX Spectrum, & so on.
Nintendo never stopped people from using home computers, personal computers.
They just made a proposal that weakened the games market on those platforms.

And the current reality from that is that old-market PC games of the desktop & laptop era sit on the shelves wide open while console games are protected by plexiglass & other elaborate security measures.
The old PC games market still exists but it has been absolutely dwarfed by the console games market.
Microsoft finished off what was left of this market by pretty much absorbing them into the XBox.
Most if not all of the old PC game developers now make their stuff for the consoles one way or another.
Even Valve-man Gabe Newell put out Portal 2 on the XBox 360. The Steam-master even gave props to console game classic Super Mario 64 which convinced him that videogames are art.

I wouldn't get too excited about the mobile market.
It's easy to have 100s of millions of people play your game when it only costs a dollar to buy or is even FREE.
I'm looking on Wikipedia's best-selling games of all-time list & they break it down by platform.
Funny thing I notice when I get to the Mobile Phone section...
I look at Angry Birds under the Paid Downloads caption & it says 12 million. Not bad.
I look at Angry Birds under the Freemium caption & it says 1 billion. Hmmmm...
What that tells me is that even though Angry Birds has an appeal that can reach 1 billion, that appeal is only strong enough to get 12 million of that 1 billion to actually PAY for it.
Only 12/1000 of the potential audience was willing to spend any amount of money on the game & that amount was low to begin with.
Not 12% of that audience. 1.2% of that audience. A little over a penny on a dollar.
It's telling that Tetris, Pac-Man, & even Sonic outrank Angry Birds on the Paid Downloads list.
12 million is a very good number but Nintendo sees that number often & many times surpasses it.
Nintendo sold over 40 million bathroom scales called Wit Fit Balance Boards at $90 a pop, remember.
That's hard to do but they did it.

There's a reason why the console & old-PC developers haven't jumped fully on board to the smartphone/tablet PC games market.
They know that it will reduce the videogame business to a commodity & eventually they will make no significant money making games for a living.
The Web-game model used by the smartphones & tablets restricts the type of games you can put on a platform.
If games are going to be sold for a dollar or even offered under Freemium plans, there's no incentive to create anything terribly innovative or intensive.
The game makers are going to be in the mindset of turning over those dollars as quick as possible & look for addictive fads to jumpstart this process.
Everybody will be making some quick-play Angry Birds or Candy Crush Saga clone & as more & more of them flood the platform, the games become interchangeable. It's what happened on the Facebook Web-game platform.
Dirty Zynga with their Mafia Wars which so many say ripped off Mob Wars (I still don't know how they got away with flat copying Scrabble & calling it Words with Friends).
When games are cheap or free like that people are less discerning & say one is as good as another.
Sort of like with what happens with store brand foods being side by side with the originating brand.
Do you always buy Duracell or Energizer batteries or do you most likely get the cheaper Rayovac or some other obscure brand saying one is as good as the other?

Let me go further with why the Web-game business model restricts the variety of games.
Since most of them operate on the Freemium model, gameplay gets hijacked by annoying "wanna pay now?" schemes that Zynga is known for.
Do something & all of sudden "Invite a friend!". Do something else & then "You need this tool to pass. Buy it here!".
The business model is so desperate to turn money that it can interfere with gameplay.
The free version only allows you to play 30 of the 100 stages. How many will pay the money to play the full 100 stages?
And since it's a business model so desperate to make money, what happens when gameplay advantages are tilted towards those who would pay the money?
It's one thing to have a single player game like Candy Crush. But what happens when there's a multiplayer game & one's a freeper & the other pays?
What happens to the gameplay balance when the one that pays gets better tools, weapons, powers than the one who plays for free?
What happens to the playing experience as a result?

The old coin-op arcade business model worked on people's lack of skill. You COULD possibly play the entire game for just one quarter, just 25¢, but most likely you're putting in constant quarters to keep playing. That's how they made their profits. The model is biased towards player skill over player wealth.
A rich man with all the quarters in the world can get destroyed by a homeless man holding just one quarter he found on the street.
That's a beautiful social statement in my opinion.
In every other facet of life, I may be downtrodden & forgotten. But on this arcade game machine, I'm on top of the world & everybody is in awe of me.
In the Web-game model, it would be the old status quo. Those with the green rule the scene.

You're in a boom cycle right now with the mobile game market but the bust is coming because ultimately the business model isn't sustainable.
There will always be games on that platform but as time goes on the limitations of the market & the platform will become apparent to all.
It's very telling that as much money developers/publishers made from their mobile game hits that they STILL put the game out in console form.
There's something undeniable about PHYSICAL media. Digital Angry Birds could be forgotten as soon as the download service disappears (the instability of the Web).
But when you see that physical game package they can fortify their longevity in history.

Plants & Zombies, Angry Birds, Bejeweled, Minecraft, Cake Mania, Fish Tycoon, & others will be seen 25 years later in some out of the way old games shop & conjure up good memories. Memories that inspire a purchase.
If these memories are strong enough these old games can fetch good prices on the Amazons & Craiglists of the future.
The game shops & pawn shops in my area (not talking about that lousy GameStop crap) have lots of old NES/SNES/N64/GC/GB/GBC/GBA games to look through. I just saw Hogan's Alley in one of them. I bought Rad Racer from that shop earlier for less than $5 & will probably pick up Hogan's Alley soon.
I still have my Zapper & the system still works (except for my faulty AC Adapter which I'll get fixed).
Can't do this if the games are all digital & dependent on hosting from a Web service or a server.

The console environment is STILL the proving grounds.
The mobile/digital market is a great supplement, a great reservoir for upstart developers to make a name for themselves, but they all come to the consoles to see how much their idea is REALLY loved. Will your fans pay you $30, $40, $50, $60 for your idea?
Zynga was all the rave not too long ago & now look at them. The company's on a crash course.
Nintendo has weathered every storm this industry has thrown at it & still carries on.
Mario has survived & thrived throughout every era. Can those Angry Birds do the same?


Nintendo has placed themselves in a no-man's land. Too core for casual, too casual for core, too primate for touch users, too gimmicky for traditional gamers.

We all know (although some here will never admit to) that Nintendo's classic franchises (Mario, Zelda, Kart, Smash) can't lift a home console over GC/N64 numbers (and they both had much better 3rd party support). Nintendo burned their bridge with the casuals by abandoning the Revolution and then bringing back the dual analog controller. Core players won't buy without massive 3rd party support so who is going to buy this system?

You make no argument as to why anyone (aside from the diehards) will want a WiiU. Supposedly they simply will once they realize the misguided nature of MS/Sony? No. If and when those 3rd party companies implode the former developers will regroup as new mobile game makers. We have seen this happen already, again and again. Many of the brightest minds have moved to mobile for the creative freedom it allows. What does Nintendo have to offer them to entice them to WiiU? Nintendo diehards who hardly buy anything outside of Nintendo IPs? No.

The casual market has rejected the WiiU. They are content with their mobile gaming offerings and as those offerings develop and power increase, more mid-core players will turn to mobile as well, and then finally, the core will come because there will be games simply too good to miss. Where is Nintendo in this? Selling $60 games with an antiquated controller? No.

Nintendo still has a shot to make a difference and be the bridge builder you (and they themselves) foresee them being but WiiU won't be the vehicle that gets them there. It will be what comes next (or it won't be at all).


First off Gamerace, let's kill this nonsense called 'Casual Gamer' & 'Hardcore Gamer'. It was always marketing BS.
They are grandmas who play Bookworm hardcore & college dudes that play Madden casually.
So does that make Bookworm a hardcore game & Madden a casual game? Or does it spell out that maybe just maybe these terms are not accurate altogether?
This stuff didn't exist in the era of Atari 2600, in the era of the NES. There were just people from all walks of life who played games.
The so-called soccer mom, the chain-smoking bachelor, the teenage whiz kid who could build his own computer, your little sister, a deer hunter from the woods of Georgia, a Hollywood movie star on the set, a lonely widow who plays to mediate her grief, a local stripper, your pastor/rabbi/general spiritual leader, a garbage man, a skateboarder, a street B-ball player, an accomplished scientist, an opera singer, a street fighter, a gang member, a judge, The President, paramedics, retirees & pensioners, preschoolers, someone who works a low-paying McJob, a billionaire, circus performers, race car drivers, Mensa members, sex workers, inventors, musicians, political activists, janitors, people who live in the cul-de-sac, people who live in the projects.
Just people from all walks of life who play games.

I said that Wii U is Wii Part 2. The 3rd party locked together on Microsoft's & Sony's platforms to stop the Revolution.
Nintendo is using Wii U to break the lockdown. They put a few more ingredients into the Wii formula designed to trap the 3rd parties into finally relenting.
So far the 3rd parties are still fighting Nintendo & trying to starve the system like they did to Wii.
Short-term that will work for the 3rd parties. Long-term Nintendo will reap the benefits as the 3rd parties finally get in line.
The 3rd parties won't go to the mobile platforms for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
They would have already abandoned both Microsoft AND Sony for the mobile market if it was as healthy as you make it out to be.
All those obscene revenues & you DON'T think the 3rd party establishment would jump in headfirst???

I mentioned earlier in this thread that Microsoft & Sony are about to hit a wall with XBox One & PlayStation 4.
For one reason they're fighting themselves with the still popular XBox 360 & PS3.
Sony bombed out with the PS3 & spent years trying to turn the system into some kind of success.
Over the years all the packed-in Blu-ray functionality & power of the system has begun to pay off.
Too late to win the 7th gen but enough to give PS3 solid sales for the rest of its planned 10 year cycle.
The recent price drop of the PS3 to $200 will interfere with sales of the PS4 at its $400 price & lack of backward compatibility with PS3 disc games.

See unlike the days of the 5th generation & back, consoles are no longer mere playing devices anymore. The change started in the 6th generation & became prominent in the 7th.
Now a console has your playing history, its own personalized account, customized features, its own photo/video/audio libraries. They have become an ecosystem for the player.
A player puts so much of himself/herself into the console that the system becomes an integral part of his/her general lifestyle.
After investing so much of your personality in the PS3, do you think it's easy to just leave it behind ESPECIALLY with a system that won't retain all of what you put into the older one?

Same goes for the XBox 360 if not a little bit moreso.
The 360 is Microsoft's most successful console. It was easier to make the transition from XBox to XBox 360 because original XBox wasn't as successful.
But the 360's relative success to generation-leader Wii makes it harder to leave it behind especially with the same lack of backward compatibility & even higher $500 XBox One price.
It was hard for the PS3 to get out of the shadow of the PS2 which had less of that personalization seen in all of the 7th gen consoles.
Maybe this is one reason Nintendo essentially killed the Wii prematurely.
They didn't want to be fighting their own phenomenon like PS3 had to do with the PS2.
And by having backwards compatibility to the extreme (controllers & all) it will make it easier for players to transition from Wii to Wii U.
Old Wiis become hand-me-downs played in a certain room in the house especially with the gutting of WiiConnect24 functionality (I think they should have done this differently. Should have included it in larger Nintendo Network in my opinion).

The other reason & probably the foundational reason why Microsoft & Sony are gonna hit the wall in the 8th gen is the Graphics thing.
I had a reply somewhere in this thread showcasing the same character from PS3's Killzone 3 & PS4's Killzone: Shadow Fall (Killzone 4).
See if you notice the difference in graphics.

Does this REALLY warrant all the extra expense for a new console?
Yes I know it's an early edition PS4 game to a late edition PS3 game but still...
To me it seems like what's done in Killzone: Shadow Fall could be done on Killzone 3 with simple art design choices not graphical power.
XBox One's Killer Instinct looks like it could be done on the XBox 360 now!

How many sides does it take to make a cube? 6. Just 6. Trying to add an extra side is redundant. It only needs 6 sides.
Once all the tools you use fulfill the goal you don't need more tools.
Nobody beats Nintendo in gamecraft so they have to use the allure of power to get the edge on the master gamecrafter.
Now power doesn't pay off anymore & you are playing on the same plane, the same level as the master gamecrafter. What do you do now?
The HD Twins really didn't stop the SD phenomenon known as Wii. They just stalled the inevitable completion of the Revolution.
As this generation goes on, Nintendo will separate the wheat from the chaff.
The XBox One controller is virtually no different than the XBox 360 controller.
The PlayStation 4 controller is still that same doubled-up Super Nintendo/Nintendo 64 design it has been the past 20 years except with a screen in the middle (their attempt to answer the Wii U).
When people talk about a "traditional controller" who's tradition are they speaking of?
Nintendo's tradition: The NES/Famicom Standard of 1983.
But the REAL Nintendo tradition is reshaping & making new standards in the controller to bring out new playing experiences.
The other guys will have games that look about the same as the last ones & play the same as the last ones.
That wears thin after awhile & eventually franchises grow stale.

Once Wii U is understood at large, it will dominate. You have to touch Wii U unlike Wii. Wii you could see from afar. You have to put your hands on Wii U.
I once thought the tablet controller was contradictory but it turns out to be complementary.
They essentially made your TV a DS yet with all the appeal that a home console brings.
And as for the Wii U versus the tablets. They will not stop people from using tablets.
But they WILL wreck the gaming market on tablets just like they wrecked the gaming market on PCs 30 years ago.
Solid buttons still matter. Precision gameplay still matters. Tablets will have games & will be used for all sorts of functions.
But gaming will still rule on the consoles because Nintendo will insist that the consoles rule gaming.

Wii U is Nintendo's Catch-All Answer to ALL of their competition on ALL sides. It's the Multi-Strike.
They will break the blockade of the 3rd parties in the console realm, they will stem the flow of gaming centering on the tablets & smartphones.
Like I said, U stands for Unity.
That U-shaped magnet will draw them all back home.
John Lucas



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!