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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Playing At Strengths: A Strategy for Nintendo for Generation 9

Soundwave said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nintendo needs to remember what made them so great. Third parties bolstering their first party ranks. Sony understood this which is why Nintendo fanfare was so easily lost.


That was 20+ years ago now. Nintendo is a different company and third parties I think are going to be massively whittled down in the coming years.

They want to pursue the Hollywood blockbuster movie model, but the truth is the Hollywood blockbuster model only allows for a few huge budget movies every year from 5-6 major studios and that's basically it.

Nintendo I think removed themselves from that path years ago, and if Wii U flops, I think they'll push away from it even further.

They're also more in tune with the needs of the Japanese market, I think if the Japanese consumer rejects the idea of a home console going forward, then I think Nintendo is going to shift away from a dedicated home console as well.

Sony/MS can go ahead and proceed with their 32GB of RAM for next gen or whatever, lol.


Nintendo is more in tune with the Japanese market with the 3DS which holds the old rudimentary rules and very little change. Small but fun and challenging mascot games for your money complete with decent third party support. The Japanese support will not dwindle there because they dont have to push themselves to the limit like western devs. 

Nintendo did not remove themselves, they were acting like children not moving forward out of spite. Nintendo was the company that contracted Sony to make the CD based device for their console and then dropped them because they found out how much Sony charged last minute. Devs wanted new formats that could hold more space and their third party titles help both the Japanese and Americans switch sides.

Not all of Sonys games are movie-like experiences, but Sony & Naughty Dog since the 90's had always had the goal of achieving what 3D animated movies possess and giving it the masses to be played and experienced. At the same time together they ended up revolutionizing it. The Japanese don't really care about that though. The Japanese will support Nintendo if Japan comes to Tokyo Game Show with strong high quality Japanese made games. Not just quality in graphics and vastness, but story, structure and possibly new gameplay to challenge the Japanese gamer. 

Miyamoto blames the Japanese gamer for giving up, but I think its because Japanese companies gave up on them. In the end they cannot ignore the money. This gen westerners proved they had evolved beyond the Japanese. Its time for Japan to take the crown back. 



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Soundwave said:
CarcharodonKraz said:
Soundwave said:
CarcharodonKraz said:
Soundwave said:
CarcharodonKraz said:
your idea is intriguing if not a bit left field. This move would allow them to combine all handheld and console titles into one platform. The caveat, however, is they'd be sacrificing the ability to make a game using the power of a home console. A zelda on a 3ds will never have the "potential epicness" as a zelda on a wii-u. Also, there is this setback. I've never owned a handheld gaming device. I don't like smartphones. I don't game on smart phones. I've owned every nintendo home console to date. Again it's an interesting idea, but i'd probably be pretty bummed.
p.s. i don't ever want a system that is dedicated to downloads only. Hard drives crash. A disc kept in good condition is always good.

A tablet style device in a few years could theoretically be about as powerful as the Wii U and to me it seems like Nintendo has little/no interest in going beyond that for visual capability/game budget. Most of their Wii U games look nice, but for instance X is the only one that seems like it's making the Wii U hardware sweat at all.

Discs are done as a physical media after this gen IMO. Even if you want a physical media, 32GB/64GB cartridge/cards ala the 3DS/Vita should be available for cheap. The Wii U discs are 25GB only for instance.


A tablet can actually be more powerful than a wii-u right now, but now we're getting into another subject: pricepoint.  i think a retail version of this theoretical system/controller combo would be around 400$.  In a few years that may come down, but then it would be pretty out of date compare to ps4/xb1 to be just coming out. ps5/xb2 vs nintablet?  sounds a bit rediculous now; then again were talking about 9th generation and really we don't have nearly enough info to make any real predictions/judgements. 


I don't think Nintendo gives one poop about what PS5/XB2 look like, they have no interest in making games that require a $100+ million dollar budget. I think even PS4 level of hardware is overblown to them.

Something with the horsepower of say 3x the PS Vita (getting close or equal to Wii U) + 4GB of RAM I think would be just fine and dandy for most any game Nintendo would want to make and could be sold for sub $300 in a few years time.

but a few years time isn't a viable window for such a device.  It would be a 64dd disaster.  They would need to wait 4-1/2 years to not burn wii-u owners, and by then a wii-u powered equal system would just not fly.  Gaming as an evolved art would need something more powerful by then.


If Wii U is a niche product then I think they will go for it. A tablet could potentially have much more widestream appeal. People just don't want a Nintendo-centric home console anymore unless it has some kind of Wiimote type paradigm shift in the box. But portable machines, Nintendo's had fairly consistent success with for the last 15-20 years.

I would say push it out as a "third pillar" for 2014 or 2015. The Wii U will have had 2-3 years on its own for a while and could still get a proper 5 year life cycle. They're two different types of products.

whoa, hey hey hey.  I may be in the minority, but i'm still people.  And i think the idea of a "3rd pillar" would bomb.  It would be trying to create it's own niche while multiplying it's competition.  It would lose out to consoles, handhelds and mainstream tablets.  Like i said i think it's an interesting idea, but i think the approach your suggesting would fail pretty hard.  But that's just me.



CarcharodonKraz said:
Soundwave said:
CarcharodonKraz said:
Soundwave said:
CarcharodonKraz said:
Soundwave said:
CarcharodonKraz said:
your idea is intriguing if not a bit left field. This move would allow them to combine all handheld and console titles into one platform. The caveat, however, is they'd be sacrificing the ability to make a game using the power of a home console. A zelda on a 3ds will never have the "potential epicness" as a zelda on a wii-u. Also, there is this setback. I've never owned a handheld gaming device. I don't like smartphones. I don't game on smart phones. I've owned every nintendo home console to date. Again it's an interesting idea, but i'd probably be pretty bummed.
p.s. i don't ever want a system that is dedicated to downloads only. Hard drives crash. A disc kept in good condition is always good.

A tablet style device in a few years could theoretically be about as powerful as the Wii U and to me it seems like Nintendo has little/no interest in going beyond that for visual capability/game budget. Most of their Wii U games look nice, but for instance X is the only one that seems like it's making the Wii U hardware sweat at all.

Discs are done as a physical media after this gen IMO. Even if you want a physical media, 32GB/64GB cartridge/cards ala the 3DS/Vita should be available for cheap. The Wii U discs are 25GB only for instance.


A tablet can actually be more powerful than a wii-u right now, but now we're getting into another subject: pricepoint.  i think a retail version of this theoretical system/controller combo would be around 400$.  In a few years that may come down, but then it would be pretty out of date compare to ps4/xb1 to be just coming out. ps5/xb2 vs nintablet?  sounds a bit rediculous now; then again were talking about 9th generation and really we don't have nearly enough info to make any real predictions/judgements. 


I don't think Nintendo gives one poop about what PS5/XB2 look like, they have no interest in making games that require a $100+ million dollar budget. I think even PS4 level of hardware is overblown to them.

Something with the horsepower of say 3x the PS Vita (getting close or equal to Wii U) + 4GB of RAM I think would be just fine and dandy for most any game Nintendo would want to make and could be sold for sub $300 in a few years time.

but a few years time isn't a viable window for such a device.  It would be a 64dd disaster.  They would need to wait 4-1/2 years to not burn wii-u owners, and by then a wii-u powered equal system would just not fly.  Gaming as an evolved art would need something more powerful by then.


If Wii U is a niche product then I think they will go for it. A tablet could potentially have much more widestream appeal. People just don't want a Nintendo-centric home console anymore unless it has some kind of Wiimote type paradigm shift in the box. But portable machines, Nintendo's had fairly consistent success with for the last 15-20 years.

I would say push it out as a "third pillar" for 2014 or 2015. The Wii U will have had 2-3 years on its own for a while and could still get a proper 5 year life cycle. They're two different types of products.

whoa, hey hey hey.  I may be in the minority, but i'm still people.  And i think the idea of a "3rd pillar" would bomb.  It would be trying to create it's own niche while multiplying it's competition.  It would lose out to consoles, handhelds and mainstream tablets.  Like i said i think it's an interesting idea, but i think the approach your suggesting would fail pretty hard.  But that's just me.

Once upon a time the DS was a "third pillar". It's Nintendo's most successful hardware platform ever.

I think there would be a fair amount of interest in a console that you can pick up and take on the road with you or move into another room without any fuss.

The concept of a game concept being a big fat box that sits glued underneath one TV in your house works for some people, but others may be fine with just "decent visual fidelity" but a much more lifestyle centric product.

Also I think long term the strategy of playing "catch up" to Sony/MS doesn't work for Nintendo. You can't keep coming out 5-6 years later with a console moderately better than what Sony/MS have already had on the market for years and years and try to bank on a controller being enough to convince people they need this system. It only works if you have a revolution like the Wiimote was, and I think Nintendo's learned the hard way now it's not easy to replicate that.

They either have to match Sony/MS (which they won't IMO) or go in an even more different route and differniate themselves moreso.



Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:
Nintendo Cloud-Holiday 2016, $299

Rougly around the power of PS4, fully digital and can be played on the go or on TV.

Market it as a third pillar, Wii U and 3DS will still have about one good year left in them then replace both with Cloud.

Having only one platform to work on would help Nintendo alot, they could basically support it fully on there own and not having to make 2 games of each series would allow for new ips and make sure series dont get huge layoffs.


That's probably asking for too much out of a portable device. PS4 level tech isn't going to be feasible in a handheld for a while and not at that price point. 

Something in the range of a Wii U with more RAM should be feasible in a few years though.

Which is fine. I don't think Nintendo honestly wants much more to make their games with.

Ya ur right It doesnt need to be extremely powerful, just a decent boost over Wii U.

Maybe like the difference between GC and Wii, little bit stronger and more RAM.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Soundwave said:
CarcharodonKraz said:



Once upon a time the DS was a "third pillar". It's Nintendo's most successful hardware platform ever.

I think there would be a fair amount of interest in a console that you can pick up and take on the road with you or move into another room without any fuss.

The concept of a game concept being a big fat box that sits glued underneath one TV in your house works for some people, but others may be fine with just "decent visual fidelity" but a much more lifestyle centric product.

Also I think long term the strategy of playing "catch up" to Sony/MS doesn't work for Nintendo. You can't keep coming out 5-6 years later with a console moderately better than what Sony/MS have already had on the market for years and years and try to bank on a controller being enough to convince people they need this system. It only works if you have a revolution like the Wiimote was, and I think Nintendo's learned the hard way now it's not easy to replicate that.

They either have to match Sony/MS (which they won't IMO) or go in an even more different route and differniate themselves moreso.

you and i definitely view the DS differently.  I view it as the next step in the gameboy family tree. The virtual boy; that was a 3rd pillar.  As was the 64dd.

There's actually no reason nintendo can't play "catch up", but i'm also not going to say that that should be their direction. 

Again i'm not dicounting your idea, but i think it would have to be presented with a completely different approach.  Also, you may be losing the majority of "some people" who like the system "glued under one tv".  And "some people"  may actually be alot bigger than you expect. 

that being said, i do think it'd be really cool if hdmi ports were on the front of tvs and the front of consoles so that you could take a small console, such as the wii-u, and switch which room it is in with little fuss.



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CarcharodonKraz said:
Soundwave said:
CarcharodonKraz said:
 



Once upon a time the DS was a "third pillar". It's Nintendo's most successful hardware platform ever.

I think there would be a fair amount of interest in a console that you can pick up and take on the road with you or move into another room without any fuss.

The concept of a game concept being a big fat box that sits glued underneath one TV in your house works for some people, but others may be fine with just "decent visual fidelity" but a much more lifestyle centric product.

Also I think long term the strategy of playing "catch up" to Sony/MS doesn't work for Nintendo. You can't keep coming out 5-6 years later with a console moderately better than what Sony/MS have already had on the market for years and years and try to bank on a controller being enough to convince people they need this system. It only works if you have a revolution like the Wiimote was, and I think Nintendo's learned the hard way now it's not easy to replicate that.

They either have to match Sony/MS (which they won't IMO) or go in an even more different route and differniate themselves moreso.

you and i definitely view the DS differently.  I view it as the next step in the gameboy family tree. The virtual boy; that was a 3rd pillar.  As was the 64dd.

There's actually no reason nintendo can't play "catch up", but i'm also not going to say that that should be their direction. 

Again i'm not dicounting your idea, but i think it would have to be presented with a completely different approach.  Also, you may be losing the majority of "some people" who like the system "glued under one tv".  And "some people"  may actually be alot bigger than you expect. 

that being said, i do think it'd be really cool if hdmi ports were on the front of tvs and the front of consoles so that you could take a small console, such as the wii-u, and switch which room it is in with little fuss.


Nintendo specifically called DS "3rd pillar" thats how the term was started



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

I keep hearing this notion, but I'm sorry, to me, it is incredibly unappealing.

I have owned a classic Game Boy, and a DS Lite. I should have owned a GBA but never bought one. I'll eventually get a 3DS at some point. But I've never been as into portable gaming as I have been into home gaming. The same as how while I have liked many (mostly older, classic) PC games, I have always been more of a "sit back on your couch and enjoy" kind of gamer than I have a "chill in your computer chair and play" gamer. I've always been a home console kid, ever since the 2600.

I would not want to see Nintendo abandon the home console market, and I really don't think I would want to see this "home console/portable hybrid" idea either. On the one hand, you could "stream it to TVs" or whatever...but honestly, I'd rather just have an honest to God home console. The sheer volume of articles and forum threads that have popped over in 2013 about Nintendo and how they're doomed and what they need to do to change, or what they need to do "when they go third party", etc....to me, is rather absurd.

The FACT is, the only reason Wii U has been struggling, is the simplest and most blatantly obvious answer there is: It has barely had any games for ALL of 2013 so far". It's that simple. It's going to change change soon, and hopefully there'll be a steady enough stream of software from August onward, for the next several years. But really, THAT has been IT, as far as "The problem with Wii U" is concerned. A console needs games to play on it, and outside of what initially looked like a robust launch lineup, it's been pretty dry. Lego City is a great game, and I hear that the ports of Monster Hunter Tri and Need For Speed are really excellent too. But Rayman got pushed back, and Game & Wario, Pikmin, Wonderful 101, Wii Fit U, all games that were supposed to be "First Half of 2013" games, also all got pushed back. It was just poor development planning. They spent too much time and focus on the 3DS, not enough on the NEW console they had coming out. It's really that simple.

Give the system GAMES that people actually want to play on it, and it'll level off and do fine.



Most people don't want a game console strictly for Nintendo games anymore than people want a Blu-Ray player that only plays say, Disney movies or something.

I think that's the problem, Nintendo can release games, but their franchise portfolio is only good enough to push a console to 20-30 million people unless they have some kind of Wiimote type game changer, but I think things like that happen once every 20-30 years and are extremely difficult to replicate (as Nintendo is finding out now).

Handheld market is easier for Nintendo to navigate because it skews more towards kids and gamers who don't care as much about graphical fidelity and/or violent themes in their games.

The home console more and more is going to become the domain of the dedicated game player who likes to play intensive gaming sessions for hours and hours. Those who like video games but not to that degree are moving away from having a home console period. Things like Angry Birds and Plants Vs. Zombies scratch their gaming itch for the 15-20 minutes a day they might care to play on any given day and it fits more into their life style than a $300+ bulky/loud home console does these days.



zorg1000 said:
CarcharodonKraz said:
Soundwave said:
CarcharodonKraz said:
 



Once upon a time the DS was a "third pillar". It's Nintendo's most successful hardware platform ever.

I think there would be a fair amount of interest in a console that you can pick up and take on the road with you or move into another room without any fuss.

The concept of a game concept being a big fat box that sits glued underneath one TV in your house works for some people, but others may be fine with just "decent visual fidelity" but a much more lifestyle centric product.

Also I think long term the strategy of playing "catch up" to Sony/MS doesn't work for Nintendo. You can't keep coming out 5-6 years later with a console moderately better than what Sony/MS have already had on the market for years and years and try to bank on a controller being enough to convince people they need this system. It only works if you have a revolution like the Wiimote was, and I think Nintendo's learned the hard way now it's not easy to replicate that.

They either have to match Sony/MS (which they won't IMO) or go in an even more different route and differniate themselves moreso.

you and i definitely view the DS differently.  I view it as the next step in the gameboy family tree. The virtual boy; that was a 3rd pillar.  As was the 64dd.

There's actually no reason nintendo can't play "catch up", but i'm also not going to say that that should be their direction. 

Again i'm not dicounting your idea, but i think it would have to be presented with a completely different approach.  Also, you may be losing the majority of "some people" who like the system "glued under one tv".  And "some people"  may actually be alot bigger than you expect. 

that being said, i do think it'd be really cool if hdmi ports were on the front of tvs and the front of consoles so that you could take a small console, such as the wii-u, and switch which room it is in with little fuss.


Nintendo specifically called DS "3rd pillar" thats how the term was started

they can call it what they want.  That doesn' make it true.  They also criticised sony and microsoft for not making new ips.  Then went 10 years and only developed 2 ips in that time.  Nintendo is a company just like any other; they'll say anything that helps their agenda.



32, 64, 128+ GB of ram for next generation? You guys must be smoking some nice shit. There is no reason to go over 16-32 GB of ram for next gen of home consoles. Most PCs don't even come with 16 GB stock these days. Usually it is 8 GB stock upgradable to 16.