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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft Legal Memo: Responding to government legal demands for customer data

sales2099 on 17 July 2013
Soleron said:
OdinHades said:
If Sony and Nintendo are also doing it, it doesn't make it okay for Microsoft. In that case it's a major fuck up from all three. But I didn't hear anything about involvement from japanese companies in prism. And why should they? I can understand the US government has american companies on the balls, so Microsoft more or less can't do anything about it. But the US do not control the whole world. They showed us time and time again that they would really like to. But they still don't.

They can get the Bolivian presidential plane diverted to Austria and searched for no legal reason at all.

And a bunch of terrorists can hijack a plane and crash it into New York skyscrapers, completely catching the government by surprise. Whats your point?



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sales2099 on 17 July 2013

Among the things they listed......Xbox was not among them.

One less con for the X1



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

LiquorandGunFun on 17 July 2013
sales2099 said:

You'd think this would clear it all up......but some people are dead set in their paranoid ways. 

And some trolls will keep the doubt going just for the bad community PR.


paranoid that we get lied to all the time by the same people? big government or big business, there is little difference. then i guess i am "paranoid"

however, at least they are trying to address it.

bad pr is M$ fault to begin with.



 

sales2099 on 17 July 2013
LiquorandGunFun said:
sales2099 said:

You'd think this would clear it all up......but some people are dead set in their paranoid ways. 

And some trolls will keep the doubt going just for the bad community PR.


paranoid that we get lied to all the time by the same people? big government or big business, there is little difference. then i guess i am "paranoid"

however, at least they are trying to address it.

bad pr is M$ fault to begin with.

Then its a government problem....at the very least MS did not list "Xbox" among the sources of government requests.

360 Kinect didn't have this problem, but Kinect 2 is a red flag because this NSA thing came out at a very bad time. But at least we know kinect 1 and 2 are not among what they give.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

LiquorandGunFun on 17 July 2013
sales2099 said:
LiquorandGunFun said:
sales2099 said:

You'd think this would clear it all up......but some people are dead set in their paranoid ways. 

And some trolls will keep the doubt going just for the bad community PR.


paranoid that we get lied to all the time by the same people? big government or big business, there is little difference. then i guess i am "paranoid"

however, at least they are trying to address it.

bad pr is M$ fault to begin with.

Then its a government problem....at the very least MS did not list "Xbox" among the sources of government requests.

360 Kinect didn't have this problem, but Kinect 2 is a red flag because this NSA thing came out at a very bad time. But at least we know kinect 1 and 2 are not among what they give.

plus the commercials MS ran against gmail about privacy? meh kinect didnt need the nsa report to be a red flag, the price is doing that for them, they would have had this gen hook line and sinker if there was a $250 xbo on launch without the kinect, and that is taking into consideration it is an additional $250. plus the nsa thing would go away much faster.



 

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Soleron on 17 July 2013
sales2099 said:
Soleron said:
OdinHades said:
If Sony and Nintendo are also doing it, it doesn't make it okay for Microsoft. In that case it's a major fuck up from all three. But I didn't hear anything about involvement from japanese companies in prism. And why should they? I can understand the US government has american companies on the balls, so Microsoft more or less can't do anything about it. But the US do not control the whole world. They showed us time and time again that they would really like to. But they still don't.

They can get the Bolivian presidential plane diverted to Austria and searched for no legal reason at all.

And a bunch of terrorists can hijack a plane and crash it into New York skyscrapers, completely catching the government by surprise. Whats your point?

That the US does have enormous power over foreign state governments. But not foreign individuals or groups.



sales2099 on 17 July 2013
LiquorandGunFun said:
sales2099 said:

Then its a government problem....at the very least MS did not list "Xbox" among the sources of government requests.

360 Kinect didn't have this problem, but Kinect 2 is a red flag because this NSA thing came out at a very bad time. But at least we know kinect 1 and 2 are not among what they give.

plus the commercials MS ran against gmail about privacy? meh kinect didnt need the nsa report to be a red flag, the price is doing that for them, they would have had this gen hook line and sinker if there was a $250 xbo on launch without the kinect, and that is taking into consideration it is an additional $250. plus the nsa thing would go away much faster.

Agreed, the price difference will be a deal breaker for many. But at least we know now that from a privacy perspective, Xbox isn't involved.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

endimion on 17 July 2013
the2real4mafol said:
endimion said:
the2real4mafol said:
Proves that the free market don't really exist. I know this don't affect trade, but libertarians wouldn't like this as they see state manipulation of private companies. I still don't know how any government would get away with this sort of intrusion of privacy though.

I would expect some kind of link if these companies were state run but they are not. But while they are at it, why not collect the avoided taxes from these companies instead

I hope you realize the NSA don't ask data about people that ran over the neighbors dog and didn't tell????
the kind of people targeted for those have either ties with known terrorist organisation or dangerous political groups or are engaged in criminal activities.....

why do gov have that power.... ???? well because without it you would have a talyon world... and a much less safe life.... how do you suggest they arrest people that are potential threat to the nations and its people.... wait until they act and catch them then ???

so if they could have obtained info through data collection on the authors of the bus attacks in the UK.... you would have rather let it happen than break their privacy rights ???
I'm sorry while I'm a big libertarian when it comes to trades, I have no death wish and would rather leave the security of the state to the gov and if it means bending some rules on special occasion I'm fine.... it is better than an entire population at risk and becoming warry of everything resulting in a suspicious nation and ending by big witch hunts and lynching parties from their people.....

I know that but there's nothing suggesting the NSA won't get more powerful in the future and possibly start rounding up political opponents like some "Security agencies" have in the past. I don't really trust any countrie's governments as they could really do anything. They decide who's dangerous and who's not regardless of whether we agree. Like in America in the cold war, apparently communists were a massive "threat" but all it was paranoia in the US government. 

And this countries may collect this data but they don't use well very often. Like George Bush was warned of a terrorist attack in 2001 but he did nothing and so 9/11 happened, probably as an excuse to start 2 unnecessary wars. I know we humans aren't prefect but come on!

Also, why should we all lose our rights especially privacy just because of some pissed off people we choose to not listen too. They are terrorists for some reason or another and yet we don't find out why, instead we discriminate against a whole group of people (currently the muslims) and have a frenzy of paranoia while losing many of our human rights. Why have a constitution if it is not respected? 

Also, the term terrorist is extremely flawed. Depending on your prespectives. Like we see the Taliban as terrorists but they see themselves as freedom fighters of the Muslim world. It's get hard to tell who the terrorist really is after a while. 

But anyway, i see spying as unnecessary and what does it make us all look like if we get to that point? State security is certainly overdone and exaggerated. 

 

Wait what ???? 10 million death in gulags is paranoia???? More people died under USSR regime than Hitler’s 3rd riche and that's without counting the dead in the proxy wars between the west and the eastern bloc..... It’s just straight up death from their own communist Gov...

no it's not hard.... cause we all know nobody was free under Taliban control.... it is perfectly easy to define terrorism.... it is a group of people oppressing their own people or threatening others.... there is absolutely no doubt in anyone sane who is the terrorist.... and once again the paranoia against Muslims is from the people mostly.... live it to the people and you would see way more discrimination towards minorities such as Muslims.... if the govs where thinking on the same line as the people they would not provide visas to those people... I was a student in the US for close to 10 years... the 2 nationalities represented the most after American in my University were Chinese and Saudi.... all of them on student visas.... if the gov was that paranoid they would just have to not provide those visas.....

yeah 9/11 happened... then again they have threats going on all the time and can't treat all of them.... one of my friend's fathers is a retired USAF general they had the WTC mark as potential terrorists target since the late 70's

you don't trust the govs.... fine but remember if you are free of oppression today it is probably thanks to them and to organization like the NSA or your great MI-5/6
and certainly not the people and their pseudo fight for freedom.... I would trust more any western gov to fight for a greater good than the rabid mind of the masses.... we've seen that fail every time.... hatred and paranoia is exactly what would happen... heck the Taliban are exactly what you are talking about.... power to the people abused by the people to oppress the people… I will never trust the common man to do the right thing once power is in its hand…. That shit happens only in movies

 



Stinky on 17 July 2013
OdinHades said:
If Sony and Nintendo are also doing it, it doesn't make it okay for Microsoft. In that case it's a major fuck up from all three. But I didn't hear anything about involvement from japanese companies in prism. And why should they? I can understand the US government has american companies on the balls, so Microsoft more or less can't do anything about it. But the US do not control the whole world. They showed us time and time again that they would really like to. But they still don't.


Does Sony or Nintendo ship a computer operating system, or run a public VOIP service, or a cloud email system?



radha on 17 July 2013
Multimedialover said:
wick said:

I love the pic.

ut expected nothing less of a reaction on this site.Everything Microsoft have said here Sonyand Nintedo HAVE to do also. HAVE TO. Its the law in certain countries.


Maybe Japanese companies dont HAVE TO, is posible that is why some consoles are not accepted in some military zones.



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