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Forums - General Discussion - Breaking News: George Zimmerman Found Not Guilty!

o_O.Q on 16 July 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
o_O.Q said:

trust me i'm sure i'm more shocked that people take every word that come out of zimmerman's mouth... 

the fucking guy trying to justify what he did as gospel

i just read a post where someone asks "why would he lie" 

apparently because zimmerman said it lol its "fact" that martin "sucker punched" him

I really hope you aren't referring to my post when I asked why would he lie because thats just you misrepressenting facts again.

I don't believe everything that comes out of Zimmermans mouth but the people who are trying to paint him in a worse picture are really stretching with assumptions. We know he was telling the truth about reporting Trayvon. We know he was telling the truth about following Trayvon. We know he was telling the truth about getting beaten. We know he was telling the truth about shooting Trayvon. But some how people like you use reverse logic to make absurd claims to find something that he did wrong that isn't supported by evidence.

The only thing that isn't supported by facts that Zimmerman said was Trayvon saying "You going to die tonight" and I think Zimmerman is doing exaclty what Jeantel is doing. Which is over exagerating to get more sympathy.

funny how claims that martin was lurking in a bush waiting to sucker punch zimmerman aren't "stretching assumptions" lol when there's no evidence backing that

honestly if i were you i'd hop off my high horse



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bluesinG on 16 July 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
bluesinG said:

In contrast, this is what happens when a black man shoots an unarmed teenager who comes to his house and threatens him and his son:

Man Convicted for Shooting Teenager

A Suffolk County jury on Saturday night found a black man guilty of manslaughter for shooting of an unarmed white teenager outside the man’s house last year, ending a racially charged trial. The jury began deliberating on Wednesday, and on Friday indicated that it was deadlocked and racked with discord. But late Saturday night, it delivered its verdict: The man, John H. White, 54, was guilty of the second-degree manslaughter charge that prosecutors had sought, and of criminal possession of a weapon. Mr. White was allowed to remain free until sentencing, when he will face a maximum term of 5 to 15 years in prison.

Mr. White was convicted of shooting Daniel Cicciaro, 17, point-blank in the face on Aug. 9, 2006. Daniel and several friends had left a party and showed up Mr. White’s house just after 11 p.m. to challenge his son Aaron, then 19, to a fight, and had used threats, profanities and racial epithets. Mr. White awoke and grabbed a loaded Beretta pistol he kept in the garage of his house in Miller Place, a predominantly white hamlet on Long Island.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/nyregion/23trial.html



Completely different and irrelevant. Please dont use logical fallacies to fuel and ignite racial debate that isn't there. Im disgusted at people like this trying to make a point using completely different facts.

And if you really don't see the difference then here it is. In self defense case you have a duty to try to retreat before resorting to violence. Except in Florida due to stand your own ground. However, George was being beaten on the ground so he couldn't have retreated even if it was availble to him so he meets the criteria in other states of being able to use self defense. On top of that it needs to be reasonable that the person felt their life was in danger. Zimmerman was being physically assaulted. The other guy seems to be verbally assaulted which shouldn't have happened but is not life threatening. Also, the guy didn't even try to call 911 (or at least it isn't noted)... man... people like you piss me off

 

See my previous post:

Of course I understand the legal differences between Florida and New York, especially regarding stand your ground laws. But morally/ethically, do you think that both Zimmerman and White are guilty, neither are guilty, or only one is guilty?

Personally, I think that both are guilty.



timmah on 16 July 2013
bluesinG said:
timmah said:
bluesinG said:

In contrast, this is what happens when a black man shoots an unarmed teenager who comes to his house and threatens him and his son:

Man Convicted for Shooting Teenager

A Suffolk County jury on Saturday night found a black man guilty of manslaughter for shooting of an unarmed white teenager outside the man’s house last year, ending a racially charged trial. The jury began deliberating on Wednesday, and on Friday indicated that it was deadlocked and racked with discord. But late Saturday night, it delivered its verdict: The man, John H. White, 54, was guilty of the second-degree manslaughter charge that prosecutors had sought, and of criminal possession of a weapon. Mr. White was allowed to remain free until sentencing, when he will face a maximum term of 5 to 15 years in prison.

Mr. White was convicted of shooting Daniel Cicciaro, 17, point-blank in the face on Aug. 9, 2006. Daniel and several friends had left a party and showed up Mr. White’s house just after 11 p.m. to challenge his son Aaron, then 19, to a fight, and had used threats, profanities and racial epithets. Mr. White awoke and grabbed a loaded Beretta pistol he kept in the garage of his house in Miller Place, a predominantly white hamlet on Long Island.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/nyregion/23trial.html

Was he being beaten or attacked at the time he shot the teen? Nope. Did the trial take place in Florida (which has strong self-defense laws) or New York (which has weak self defense laws)? Oh... New York. The jury has to consider the laws in the state, had this been in Florida, he would very likely have gotten off on the 'Stand your ground' law. No such law exists in New York, so that defense could not be made. Very different story, but good job grasping at straws. Seriously, use some reasoning when trying to compare stories. Yeesh.

Of course I understand the legal differences. But morally/ethically, do you think that both Zimmerman and White are guilty, neither are guilty, or only one is guilty?

Personally, I think that both are guilty.

Morally I think intent is important, and there was no evidence to suggest Zimmerman intended to shoot anybody that night. He didn't pull his gun out until he was being beaten. This guy pulled his gun out, then went outside to confront the group in his front yard. If he waited inside, called the cops, then the teens burst into his house, shoot away and you're fine legally AND morally. Going out to confront somebody with a gun, then shooting them in the face without being attacked is not even a close comparison! The fact that you tried to put race into this based on this comparison is really just a weak, race baiting move. People need to stop fanning the flames, you should be ashamed.

You also said:

"Of course I understand the legal differences between Florida and New York, especially regarding stand your ground laws. But morally/ethically, do you think that both Zimmerman and White are guilty, neither are guilty, or only one is guilty?"

But that's not what your original post was. Your original post was a race-baiting post based on partial information, and a comparison that you just admitted you KNOW is not a good comparison! This mentality of putting on the tinfoil hat and looking for racial prejudice where it does not exist is just sad, very sad indeed. This mindset is a cancer that infects a large portion of the country.



o_O.Q on 16 July 2013
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Thank god justice prevailed and this man was found innocent of all charges. An emotional trial by media and a witch hunt of Zimmerman shooting dead an apparent innocent African-American 17 year old teenage boy. Trayvon was made out to be this holier than thou golden child/angel who did no wrong. Thank god the judge and the jury looked at all the evidence presented and made the right decision to find Zimmerman innocent of all charges.


"Trayvon was made out to be this holier than thou golden child/angel who did no wrong"

yes and the same cannot be said for zimmerman i suppose especially when viewing the footage of the interview one of the jurors did with CNN

who kept saying stuff along the lines of "he was trying to do the right thing" "his heart was in the right place" etc etc etc



bluesinG on 16 July 2013
timmah said:
bluesinG said:
timmah said:
bluesinG said:

In contrast, this is what happens when a black man shoots an unarmed teenager who comes to his house and threatens him and his son:

Man Convicted for Shooting Teenager

A Suffolk County jury on Saturday night found a black man guilty of manslaughter for shooting of an unarmed white teenager outside the man’s house last year, ending a racially charged trial. The jury began deliberating on Wednesday, and on Friday indicated that it was deadlocked and racked with discord. But late Saturday night, it delivered its verdict: The man, John H. White, 54, was guilty of the second-degree manslaughter charge that prosecutors had sought, and of criminal possession of a weapon. Mr. White was allowed to remain free until sentencing, when he will face a maximum term of 5 to 15 years in prison.

Mr. White was convicted of shooting Daniel Cicciaro, 17, point-blank in the face on Aug. 9, 2006. Daniel and several friends had left a party and showed up Mr. White’s house just after 11 p.m. to challenge his son Aaron, then 19, to a fight, and had used threats, profanities and racial epithets. Mr. White awoke and grabbed a loaded Beretta pistol he kept in the garage of his house in Miller Place, a predominantly white hamlet on Long Island.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/nyregion/23trial.html

Was he being beaten or attacked at the time he shot the teen? Nope. Did the trial take place in Florida (which has strong self-defense laws) or New York (which has weak self defense laws)? Oh... New York. The jury has to consider the laws in the state, had this been in Florida, he would very likely have gotten off on the 'Stand your ground' law. No such law exists in New York, so that defense could not be made. Very different story, but good job grasping at straws. Seriously, use some reasoning when trying to compare stories. Yeesh.

Of course I understand the legal differences. But morally/ethically, do you think that both Zimmerman and White are guilty, neither are guilty, or only one is guilty?

Personally, I think that both are guilty.

Morally I think intent is important, and there was no evidence to suggest Zimmerman intended to shoot anybody that night. He didn't pull his gun out until he was being beaten. This guy pulled his gun out, then went outside to confront the group in his front yard. If he waited inside, called the cops, then the teens burst into his house, shoot away and you're fine legally AND morally. Going out to confront somebody with a gun, then shooting them in the face without being attacked is not even a close comparison! The fact that you tried to put race into this based on this comparison is really just a weak, race baiting move. People need to stop fanning the flames, you should be ashamed.

Wait, what? Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, called 911 who told him to stay in his car, ignored that advice, brought his gun out of his car, and confronted Martin. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, or left his gun in the car, or hadn't directly confronted Martin, this wouldn't have happened.

That's why, morally, I think Zimmerman is guilty.



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Max King of the Wild on 16 July 2013
bluesinG said:
timmah said:
bluesinG said:

In contrast, this is what happens when a black man shoots an unarmed teenager who comes to his house and threatens him and his son:

Man Convicted for Shooting Teenager

A Suffolk County jury on Saturday night found a black man guilty of manslaughter for shooting of an unarmed white teenager outside the man’s house last year, ending a racially charged trial. The jury began deliberating on Wednesday, and on Friday indicated that it was deadlocked and racked with discord. But late Saturday night, it delivered its verdict: The man, John H. White, 54, was guilty of the second-degree manslaughter charge that prosecutors had sought, and of criminal possession of a weapon. Mr. White was allowed to remain free until sentencing, when he will face a maximum term of 5 to 15 years in prison.

Mr. White was convicted of shooting Daniel Cicciaro, 17, point-blank in the face on Aug. 9, 2006. Daniel and several friends had left a party and showed up Mr. White’s house just after 11 p.m. to challenge his son Aaron, then 19, to a fight, and had used threats, profanities and racial epithets. Mr. White awoke and grabbed a loaded Beretta pistol he kept in the garage of his house in Miller Place, a predominantly white hamlet on Long Island.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/nyregion/23trial.html

Was he being beaten or attacked at the time he shot the teen? Nope. Did the trial take place in Florida (which has strong self-defense laws) or New York (which has weak self defense laws)? Oh... New York. The jury has to consider the laws in the state, had this been in Florida, he would very likely have gotten off on the 'Stand your ground' law. No such law exists in New York, so that defense could not be made. Very different story, but good job grasping at straws. Seriously, use some reasoning when trying to compare stories. Yeesh.

Of course I understand the legal differences between Florida and New York. But morally/ethically, do you think that both Zimmerman and White are guilty, neither are guilty, or only one is guilty?

Personally, I think that both are guilty.



Yes, only the New York one is guilty. Two things are required in all self defense cases. 1. you need to be fear you are in immediate grave danger or bodily harm. 2. is it reasonable that the ending of the life is the only way to prevent that. Zimmerman was getting his head bashed in. So obviously it's reasonable to believe he was in danger. Is it reasonable to believe that if he didn't kill Trayvon then the beating would have continued? Well yes it is. Zimmerman can't know what Trayvon is thinking or when he will stop.



bluesinG on 16 July 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
bluesinG said:
timmah said:
bluesinG said:

In contrast, this is what happens when a black man shoots an unarmed teenager who comes to his house and threatens him and his son:

Man Convicted for Shooting Teenager

A Suffolk County jury on Saturday night found a black man guilty of manslaughter for shooting of an unarmed white teenager outside the man’s house last year, ending a racially charged trial. The jury began deliberating on Wednesday, and on Friday indicated that it was deadlocked and racked with discord. But late Saturday night, it delivered its verdict: The man, John H. White, 54, was guilty of the second-degree manslaughter charge that prosecutors had sought, and of criminal possession of a weapon. Mr. White was allowed to remain free until sentencing, when he will face a maximum term of 5 to 15 years in prison.

Mr. White was convicted of shooting Daniel Cicciaro, 17, point-blank in the face on Aug. 9, 2006. Daniel and several friends had left a party and showed up Mr. White’s house just after 11 p.m. to challenge his son Aaron, then 19, to a fight, and had used threats, profanities and racial epithets. Mr. White awoke and grabbed a loaded Beretta pistol he kept in the garage of his house in Miller Place, a predominantly white hamlet on Long Island.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/nyregion/23trial.html

Was he being beaten or attacked at the time he shot the teen? Nope. Did the trial take place in Florida (which has strong self-defense laws) or New York (which has weak self defense laws)? Oh... New York. The jury has to consider the laws in the state, had this been in Florida, he would very likely have gotten off on the 'Stand your ground' law. No such law exists in New York, so that defense could not be made. Very different story, but good job grasping at straws. Seriously, use some reasoning when trying to compare stories. Yeesh.

Of course I understand the legal differences between Florida and New York. But morally/ethically, do you think that both Zimmerman and White are guilty, neither are guilty, or only one is guilty?

Personally, I think that both are guilty.



Yes, only the New York one is guilty. Two things are required in all self defense cases. 1. you need to be fear you are in immediate grave danger or bodily harm. 2. is it reasonable that the ending of the life is the only way to prevent that. Zimmerman was getting his head bashed in. So obviously it's reasonable to believe he was in danger. Is it reasonable to believe that if he didn't kill Trayvon then the beating would have continued? Well yes it is. Zimmerman can't know what Trayvon is thinking or when he will stop.

You're acting like this incident started when Martin and Zimmerman started punching each other. It didn't. Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, called 911 who told him to stay in his car, ignored that advice, brought his gun out of his car, and confronted Martin. If Zimmerman hadn't followed Martin, or had stayed in his car, or had left his gun in the car, or hadn't directly confronted Martin, this wouldn't have happened.

That's why, morally, I think Zimmerman is guilty.



Max King of the Wild on 16 July 2013
bluesinG said:

Wait, what? Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, called 911 who told him to stay in his car, ignored that advice, brought his gun out of his car, and confronted Martin. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, or left his gun in the car, or hadn't directly confronted Martin, this wouldn't have happened.

That's why, morally, I think Zimmerman is guilty.

Way to not even know the facts of the cases you are comparing. people like you should be ashamed



timmah on 16 July 2013
bluesinG said:
timmah said:

Morally I think intent is important, and there was no evidence to suggest Zimmerman intended to shoot anybody that night. He didn't pull his gun out until he was being beaten. This guy pulled his gun out, then went outside to confront the group in his front yard. If he waited inside, called the cops, then the teens burst into his house, shoot away and you're fine legally AND morally. Going out to confront somebody with a gun, then shooting them in the face without being attacked is not even a close comparison! The fact that you tried to put race into this based on this comparison is really just a weak, race baiting move. People need to stop fanning the flames, you should be ashamed.

Wait, what? Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, called 911 who told him to stay in his car, ignored that advice, brought his gun out of his car, and confronted Martin. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, or left his gun in the car, or hadn't directly confronted Martin, this wouldn't have happened.

That's why, morally, I think Zimmerman is guilty.

Evidence and testimony indicates that Martin likely circled back and confronted, then attacked Zimmerman (4 minutes in between losing Martin to being attacked, the attack took place closer to Zimmerman's truck than where he was earlier, indicating he was headed toward the truck, the only person with evidence of landing blows was Trayvon, the only person with injuries consistent with being hit was Zimmerman, Eyewitness seing Trayvon on top 'Ground and pound, MMA style), though it is impossible to be sure of all the details. It's not illegal to follow somebody, there's no legal requirement to obey a civilian 911 operator, and he was carrying a legally registered firearm, for which he had a concealed carry permit (while the guy in New York used an unregistered, illegal gun). Any more tinfoil hat theories?

EDIT: Morally, if Zimmerman was headed back to his truck and Trayvon sucker punched and jumped on top of him, Zimmerman is morally in the clear at that point. This scenario best fits with the entirity of the evidence and testimony. Again, there is absolutley zero evidence that his intent was to hurt anybody. If his intent was simply to defend himself against severe bodily harm or potential death, he is morally in the right at that moment. Stupid decisions are not the same as purposeful, morally 'bad' decisions.



Max King of the Wild on 16 July 2013
bluesinG said:
 

You're acting like this incident started when Martin and Zimmerman started punching each other started punching Zimmerman. It didn't. Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, called 911 who told him to stay in his car asked if he was following Martin, ignored that advice said okay and have the cops call me when they get here so I can tell them where I am at, brought his gun out of his car, and confronted Martin. If Zimmerman hadn't followed Martin, or had stayed in his car, or had left his gun in the car, or hadn't directly confronted Martin, this wouldn't have happened.

That's why, morally, I think Zimmerman is guilty.