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Forums - PC Discussion - Is Nvidia toying with AMD when it comes to GPU performance?

disolitude on 08 July 2013

When looking at the last few generations of GPUs for Nvidia, one can spot certain patterns. 

2010: Geforce 400 Series
High end: GF100
Midrange/Low end: GF104,106,108...

2011: Geforce 500 Series
High end: GF110
Midrange/Low end: GF114,116...


Then we look at the GPUs released last and this year, we see:
2012: Geforce 600 Series
High end/Midrange/Low: GK104,106,108


2013: Geforce 700 Series
High end: GK110
Midrange: GF104

Looking at these patterns I think it is very clear that Nvidia held back the GK110 (Titan, GTX 780) in 2012 after seeing what AMD offered with their Southern Islands (HD 7xxx) cards. The GTX 680 flagship that is based on GK104 was meant to be a midrange card but Nvidia realized it will be enough to compete with AMD for now. This is why the power consumption is much lower than AMD and they have a 256 bit bus. Nvidia has never had a 256 bit bus on a flagship video card (appart from the 9000 series refresh). 

All this allowed Nvidia to repackage the GK110 GPU as the Titan and GTX 780 in 2013 and catch AMD without a competing GPU for at least 6 months if not more. 
AMD really needs to step up their game and deliver with the Sea Islands (HD 8xxx) series to keep this GPU race competitive. Nvidia will shortly deliver their Maxwell GPU's and raise the bar again while AMD still doesn't have a competitor to match Nvidias 2012 GK110 GPU. If AMD aren't able to stay competitive, the pricing for high end GPUs will skyrocket and no one wants to see that.


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coolguy on 08 July 2013

Nvidia can go away lol



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Seikseruza on 08 July 2013

Well seeing as how they would want as much market share as they can get I would have to say no. They will do things because they want the most money. Holding back or toying with others doesn't factor in to that.



Viper1 on 08 July 2013
disolitude said:

When looking at the last few generations of GPUs for Nvidia, one can spot certain patterns. 

2010: Geforce 400 Series
High end: GF100
Midrange/Low end: GF104,106,108...

2011: Geforce 500 Series
High end: GF110
Midrange/Low end: GF114,116...


Then we look at the GPUs released last and this year, we see:
2012: Geforce 600 Series
High end/Midrange/Low: GK104,106,108


2013: Geforce 700 Series
High end: GK110
Midrange: GF104

Looking at these patterns I think it is very clear that Nvidia held back the GK110 (Titan, GTX 780) in 2012 after seeing what AMD offered with their Southern Islands (HD 7xxx) cards. The GTX 680 flagship that is based on GK104 was meant to be a midrange card but Nvidia realized it will be enough to compete with AMD for now. This is why the power consumption is much lower than AMD and they have a 256 bit bus. Nvidia has never had a 256 bit bus on a flagship video card (appart from the 9000 series refresh). 

All this allowed Nvidia to repackage the GK110 GPU as the Titan and GTX 780 in 2013 and catch AMD without a competing GPU for at least 6 months if not more. 
AMD really needs to step up their game and deliver with the Sea Islands (HD 8xxx) series to keep this GPU race competitive. Nvidia will shortly deliver their Maxwell GPU's and raise the bar again while AMD still doesn't have a competitor to match Nvidias 2012 GK110 GPU. If AMD aren't able to stay competitive, the pricing for high end GPUs will skyrocket and no one wants to see that.

GeForce FX 5xxx, GeForce 6xxx, GeForce 7xxx (7900 GX2 even had a 512 bit bus), Geforce 8xxx (a few had a 384) and GTX 6xx series had 256 bit busses on their flagship cards.

I also thought AMD was skipping Sea Islands as a retail series (OEM only) and are going straight to Volcanic Islands?



The rEVOLution is not being televised

disolitude on 08 July 2013
Viper1 said:
disolitude said:

When looking at the last few generations of GPUs for Nvidia, one can spot certain patterns. 

2010: Geforce 400 Series
High end: GF100
Midrange/Low end: GF104,106,108...

2011: Geforce 500 Series
High end: GF110
Midrange/Low end: GF114,116...


Then we look at the GPUs released last and this year, we see:
2012: Geforce 600 Series
High end/Midrange/Low: GK104,106,108


2013: Geforce 700 Series
High end: GK110
Midrange: GF104

Looking at these patterns I think it is very clear that Nvidia held back the GK110 (Titan, GTX 780) in 2012 after seeing what AMD offered with their Southern Islands (HD 7xxx) cards. The GTX 680 flagship that is based on GK104 was meant to be a midrange card but Nvidia realized it will be enough to compete with AMD for now. This is why the power consumption is much lower than AMD and they have a 256 bit bus. Nvidia has never had a 256 bit bus on a flagship video card (appart from the 9000 series refresh). 

All this allowed Nvidia to repackage the GK110 GPU as the Titan and GTX 780 in 2013 and catch AMD without a competing GPU for at least 6 months if not more. 
AMD really needs to step up their game and deliver with the Sea Islands (HD 8xxx) series to keep this GPU race competitive. Nvidia will shortly deliver their Maxwell GPU's and raise the bar again while AMD still doesn't have a competitor to match Nvidias 2012 GK110 GPU. If AMD aren't able to stay competitive, the pricing for high end GPUs will skyrocket and no one wants to see that.

GeForce FX 5xxx, GeForce 6xxx, GeForce 7xxx (7900 GX2 even had a 512 bit bus), Geforce 8xxx (a few had a 384) and GTX 6xx series had 256 bit busses on their flagship cards.

I also thought AMD was skipping Sea Islands as a retail series (OEM only) and are going straight to Volcanic Islands?

Right, I was thinking in recent memory in terms of the flagship GPU, they almost always had 384 or 512 bit bus. 8800 GTX and on which is when Nvidia started its most powerful single GPU crown (until the 7970/680 series which is debatable)... I'm sure you could go back to Geforce 2 and find a flagship with 64 bit bus. :)

I didn't know AMD is skipping HD8000 series. I guess they had to sacrifice very high end GPU sales for 8-9 months or so to catch up. Hopefully Vulcanic islands blows GK110 out of the water because if it doesn't, and MAxwell being on the horizon...



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AnthonyW86 on 08 July 2013

More like the other way around. AMD currently beats Nvidia at price/performance, power efficiency(though the new 7xxx series made this kind of even) and compute performance.



disolitude on 08 July 2013
AnthonyW86 said:
More like the other way around. AMD currently beats Nvidia at price/performance, power efficiency(though the new 7xxx series made this kind of even) and compute performance.


Bolded is just plain wrong. Power consumption really isn't even close with the 680 vs HD7000 series... 

And in terms of price to performance, yeah thats all they have going for them. Being cheaper and bundling games.



Viper1 on 08 July 2013
disolitude said:
Viper1 said:

I also thought AMD was skipping Sea Islands as a retail series (OEM only) and are going straight to Volcanic Islands?

I didn't know AMD is skipping HD8000 series. I guess they had to sacrifice very high end GPU sales for 8-9 months or so to catch up. Hopefully Vulcanic islands blows GK110 out of the water because if it doesn't, and MAxwell being on the horizon...

AMD were always pretty tight lipped regarding Sea Islands/8xxx so we may never really know what their original intentions with it was.    But we should be expecting therir Volcanic Islands/9xxx series in October.

They've definitely given nVidia some ground lately.  Though I suppose they've had a lot of focus lately going into their home console deals that it's understandable they've pulled some effort away from the discreet GPU division.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

disolitude on 08 July 2013
CGI-Quality said:

I would say yes, given they could have trounced them with the 7xx series, but chose to honor a moderate upgrade (and skimping out on a dual solution for that series entirely). Given Maxwell and Volta GPUs are in the pipelines, it won't remain that way.

True. But we really don't know what AMd may deliver with the Vulcanic islands. I want AMD to do better so I can buy Nvidia for cheaper lol. 

Also I don't see how a dual 780/Titan solution would be possible. That card would be utter rapage but the TDP and heat would be insane lol...



AnthonyW86 on 08 July 2013
disolitude said:
AnthonyW86 said:
More like the other way around. AMD currently beats Nvidia at price/performance, power efficiency(though the new 7xxx series made this kind of even) and compute performance.


Bolded is just plain wrong. Power consumption really isn't even close with the 680 vs HD7000 series... 

And in terms of price to performance, yeah thats all they have going for them. Being cheaper and bundling games.

Sorry to say but isn't that the only thing that matters to most people? Being cheaper at the same performance level? A Titan is fast but at $800-$1000 it's not exactly affordable for the general public. And it's only the GTX 680 that's more power efficient when compared to the high clocked HD7970. Lower down the line it's even or a slight advantage to AMD.