Quantcast
Carzy Zarx's PC gaming emporium - Catch up on all the latest PC Gaming related news

Forums - PC Discussion - Carzy Zarx's PC gaming emporium - Catch up on all the latest PC Gaming related news

Zarx changed his avatar again. Thoughts?

Noice 243 61.99%
 
So soon? I just got used to the last one 13 3.32%
 
it sucks 21 5.36%
 
Your cropping skills are lacking 13 3.32%
 
Too noisy, can't tell WTF it even is 12 3.06%
 
Meh 29 7.40%
 
Total:331
fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

Only a 6-core chip though...

Hence why there's more to come since it's only the lowest of all Matisse SKUs ...

Even if it is only six cores, it's still a pretty good deal at $200 for 90% of the performance of a 9900K. I wouldn't be worried about next gen at all since >80% of all Steam users (which are outliers as it is) have less then 6 cores to begin with so developers will have to aim lower for them ... 

We don't know how many Cores will be reserved for the OS/Background tasks on next-gen consoles either, might only be 6-cores/12 threads reserved for actual games, who knows?

But... It's still only a 6-core chip and thus pretty uninspiring to me... I have had a 6-core processor or better for almost a decade now.



Around the Network
Pemalite said:

We don't know how many Cores will be reserved for the OS/Background tasks on next-gen consoles either, might only be 6-cores/12 threads reserved for actual games, who knows?

But... It's still only a 6-core chip and thus pretty uninspiring to me... I have had a 6-core processor or better for almost a decade now.

Whatever amount will be reserved for next gen consoles, the impact of the OS will be nil regardless ... 

Also, you gotta stop thinking in terms of the # of cores. What matters in the end is performance ... 

If you want more cores then AMD are still going to offer higher end models and I doubt your old Sandy Bridge system is going to give the lowest end Matisse much of a fight ... 



fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

We don't know how many Cores will be reserved for the OS/Background tasks on next-gen consoles either, might only be 6-cores/12 threads reserved for actual games, who knows?

But... It's still only a 6-core chip and thus pretty uninspiring to me... I have had a 6-core processor or better for almost a decade now.

Whatever amount will be reserved for next gen consoles, the impact of the OS will be nil regardless ... 

Also, you gotta stop thinking in terms of the # of cores. What matters in the end is performance ... 

If you want more cores then AMD are still going to offer higher end models and I doubt your old Sandy Bridge system is going to give the lowest end Matisse much of a fight ... 

If the OS is reserving 25% of the CPU time, that's a pretty significant impact for the consoles.

Of course performance matters. But single threaded performance+more cores is what I want most, I can use every core I can get for my workloads, if a design has fantastic single threaded performance and scales out to a high number of threads... I am an extremely happy camper.

I am not running Sandy Bridge at the moment, I still do have that system still kicking though!
I am not knocking AMD (I own multiple AMD rigs!) - Just anything less than 8 cores seems to be pretty uninspiring... The fact that a 6-core AMD chip can reach 90% of an Intel 8-core chip is just a testament to how poor Intel is doing right now, they have really dropped the ball on the CPU front.



Pemalite said:

If the OS is reserving 25% of the CPU time, that's a pretty significant impact for the consoles.

Of course performance matters. But single threaded performance+more cores is what I want most, I can use every core I can get for my workloads, if a design has fantastic single threaded performance and scales out to a high number of threads... I am an extremely happy camper.

I am not running Sandy Bridge at the moment, I still do have that system still kicking though!
I am not knocking AMD (I own multiple AMD rigs!) - Just anything less than 8 cores seems to be pretty uninspiring... The fact that a 6-core AMD chip can reach 90% of an Intel 8-core chip is just a testament to how poor Intel is doing right now, they have really dropped the ball on the CPU front.

I doubt it'll get anywhere near 25% (closer to 5% realistically speaking) and next gen consoles are guaranteed to have 8 cores with the official information we know so the discussion about consoles are especially moot in general since developers probably won't make next gen console CPU performance as the minimum standard ... 

Just exactly how high do you want to raise the standards for AMD ? Would you rather they not sell ANY 6 cores and instead start with 8 cores at $400 ? 

Even though it's not 8 cores, they're still offering compelling options and that still matters a lot even if it is uninspiring to you. They'll still be offering 8 cores at higher prices ... 



fatslob-:O said:

I doubt it'll get anywhere near 25% (closer to 5% realistically speaking) and next gen consoles are guaranteed to have 8 cores with the official information we know so the discussion about consoles are especially moot in general since developers probably won't make next gen console CPU performance as the minimum standard ... 

How do you come to 5%? 
And yes, 8-cores is common knowledge at the moment.

25% of 8 cores is 2 cores, which is a good amount of CPU time for the OS, background duties and so on, especially as these devices tend to do more and more in the background as time goes on... And with 4k streaming becoming more prominent, they may need the additional CPU cycles.

fatslob-:O said:

Just exactly how high do you want to raise the standards for AMD ? Would you rather they not sell ANY 6 cores and instead start with 8 cores at $400 ? 

You have misconstrued my statements to be something it's not.
I am suggesting that 6-cores is uninspiring to me, not that AMD should stop selling them.

If AMD was to release a 6-core CPU for the mobile space I would actually be a little more excited, but their mobile efforts are pretty average at the moment.

AMD's 12 and 16-core parts however are extremely tantalizing for me... Remember, I have had 6 or more CPU cores for about a decade now, so anything less than 8-cores after all these years is pretty "meh" from my point of view.
AMD had 6-core mainstream parts (I.E. The Phenom 2 x6 1090T) as far back as 2010 remember, which was actually my first 6-core processor, I want things to move upwards a little faster for the entry and mid-range segments, especially on desktop.

fatslob-:O said:

Even though it's not 8 cores, they're still offering compelling options and that still matters a lot even if it is uninspiring to you. They'll still be offering 8 cores at higher prices ... 

I never once suggested they aren't compelling options for other users. - I am not one of those other users however.





Around the Network
Pemalite said:

How do you come to 5%? 
And yes, 8-cores is common knowledge at the moment.

25% of 8 cores is 2 cores, which is a good amount of CPU time for the OS, background duties and so on, especially as these devices tend to do more and more in the background as time goes on... And with 4k streaming becoming more prominent, they may need the additional CPU cycles.

Current consoles have 7 cores available which means that an OS takes at most 12.5% of total CPU compute capacity. Consoles are most likely going to come with a 3+GHz clock (likely 3.2) and that would translate to roughly 4x faster performance (~3%) and that's not even taking into account that it can potentially go to 0% if Sony or even Microsoft decide to offload to auxiliary ARM cores ... (this does not take into account the superior I/O performance of next generation systems as well)

4K will be pretty irrelevant for next generation as I imagine most devs will choose to design content around RT at 1080p with better AA rather than 4K since most people won't have access to a 4K display at the start of next generation. 4K is maybe something to target during the middle of next generation but even with 4K streaming there's no reason why we couldn't use fixed function dedicated units for that ... 

Pemalite said:

You have misconstrued my statements to be something it's not.
I am suggesting that 6-cores is uninspiring to me, not that AMD should stop selling them.

If AMD was to release a 6-core CPU for the mobile space I would actually be a little more excited, but their mobile efforts are pretty average at the moment.

AMD's 12 and 16-core parts however are extremely tantalizing for me... Remember, I have had 6 or more CPU cores for about a decade now, so anything less than 8-cores after all these years is pretty "meh" from my point of view.
AMD had 6-core mainstream parts (I.E. The Phenom 2 x6 1090T) as far back as 2010 remember, which was actually my first 6-core processor, I want things to move upwards a little faster for the entry and mid-range segments, especially on desktop.

I never once suggested they aren't compelling options for other users. - I am not one of those other users however.

So your point is that you're expressing your opinion even when I made it clear that AMD had other options in mind for you ? So what was this argument even about ?! 

As far as the portable space is concerned, I don't think AMD cares about it all that much so they're probably going to leave it to brand power to do all the impressing and I wouldn't think about doing parts with more cores until well AFTER the launch of next generation since a few high-end application developers are still struggling to scale more than beyond 4 cores ... (particularly MMOs, Far Cry, Civilization, and other guilty developers)



fatslob-:O said:

Current consoles have 7 cores available which means that an OS takes at most 12.5% of total CPU compute capacity. Consoles are most likely going to come with a 3+GHz clock (likely 3.2) and that would translate to roughly 4x faster performance (~3%) and that's not even taking into account that it can potentially go to 0% if Sony or even Microsoft decide to offload to auxiliary ARM cores ... (this does not take into account the superior I/O performance of next generation systems as well)

The 8th gen consoles launched with 2x CPU cores reserved for the OS and background. - In the history of Consoles, the OS/Background tasks have gotten more demanding with each successive console generation.
Obviously as console generations progress there is some underlying optimizations done to the software stack, this holds true since consoles have had mandatory software updates. (7th gen and newer.)

Assuming Microsoft/Sony has auxiliary ARM cores to offload tasks is far-fetched when we have zero supportive evidence of whether that is the case.

fatslob-:O said:

4K will be pretty irrelevant for next generation as I imagine most devs will choose to design content around RT at 1080p with better AA rather than 4K since most people won't have access to a 4K display at the start of next generation. 4K is maybe something to target during the middle of next generation but even with 4K streaming there's no reason why we couldn't use fixed function dedicated units for that ... 

4k is relevant now.
There are multiple consoles that have been chasing that market for a few years now.


fatslob-:O said:

So your point is that you're expressing your opinion even when I made it clear that AMD had other options in mind for you ? So what was this argument even about ?! 

I just made the statement that the 6-core parts are pretty uninspiring.

fatslob-:O said:

As far as the portable space is concerned, I don't think AMD cares about it all that much so they're probably going to leave it to brand power to do all the impressing and I wouldn't think about doing parts with more cores until well AFTER the launch of next generation since a few high-end application developers are still struggling to scale more than beyond 4 cores ... (particularly MMOs, Far Cry, Civilization, and other guilty developers)

AMD's Notebook APU's are on an older process, AMD's notebook power management is generally shit.
And to make matters worse... AMD hamstrung their notebook graphics with DDR4 2400mhz DRAM.

They had the potential to make a fantastic all-round package that could best Intel+nVidia low-end GPU combo.

Their notebook offerings could be better, they just aren't putting the effort into it for whatever reason... They are certainly in a better position than with their FX notebook chips, but still far from ideal.



Pemalite said:

The 8th gen consoles launched with 2x CPU cores reserved for the OS and background. - In the history of Consoles, the OS/Background tasks have gotten more demanding with each successive console generation.
Obviously as console generations progress there is some underlying optimizations done to the software stack, this holds true since consoles have had mandatory software updates. (7th gen and newer.)

Assuming Microsoft/Sony has auxiliary ARM cores to offload tasks is far-fetched when we have zero supportive evidence of whether that is the case.

@Bold Well lucky for Sony and Microsoft that they'll still be using the same OS for next generation ... 

The PS4 has auxiliary ARM cores in them to offload background tasks so I see no reason why Sony couldn't expand the possibility to offload the entire OS as well and the same applies to Microsoft ... 

Pemalite said:

4k is relevant now.

There are multiple consoles that have been chasing that market for a few years now.

Only 31% of the American households last year owned a 4K display. Other nations have arguably far lower penetration rates aside from possibly either South Korea and/or Japan ...

4K looks to be irrelevant at the start of next generation ... 

Pemalite said:

AMD's Notebook APU's are on an older process, AMD's notebook power management is generally shit.
And to make matters worse... AMD hamstrung their notebook graphics with DDR4 2400mhz DRAM.

They had the potential to make a fantastic all-round package that could best Intel+nVidia low-end GPU combo.

Their notebook offerings could be better, they just aren't putting the effort into it for whatever reason... They are certainly in a better position than with their FX notebook chips, but still far from ideal.

AMD has a WSA with GF so they have to keep buying 12nm wafers from them until the end of 2021 ... 

I wouldn't be surprised if AMD created their chiplet architecture just to get rid of those 12nm wafers ... 



fatslob-:O said:

@Bold Well lucky for Sony and Microsoft that they'll still be using the same OS for next generation ... 

We don't know that for sure, there isn't any evidence to tell us what OS they are using for next-gen... Or for that matter "OS's". (As in plural, aka. Multiples.)

fatslob-:O said:

The PS4 has auxiliary ARM cores in them to offload background tasks so I see no reason why Sony couldn't expand the possibility to offload the entire OS as well and the same applies to Microsoft ... 

What the Playstation 4 has... Has absolutely zero bearing on what the Playstation 5 or the next Xbox will have... As again, we lack any evidence that disproves or substantiates the inclusion of auxiliary ARM cores.

fatslob-:O said:

Only 31% of the American households last year owned a 4K display. Other nations have arguably far lower penetration rates aside from possibly either South Korea and/or Japan ...

Which makes 4k relevant.

fatslob-:O said:

4K looks to be irrelevant at the start of next generation ... 

31% is a very relevant piece of the home TV display pie, that is 10's if not 100's of millions of gamers to market towards.

fatslob-:O said:

AMD has a WSA with GF so they have to keep buying 12nm wafers from them until the end of 2021 ... 

I wouldn't be surprised if AMD created their chiplet architecture just to get rid of those 12nm wafers ... 

Yeah... That doesn't make AMD's notebook GPU's good by any stretch of the imagination. - Nor is it my problem anyway.








fatslob-:O said:
Chazore said:

I can translate the written article text, but not the charts. Are you able to by chance?.

All are easy enough to tell ... 

..

I think we can verify with @JEMC since he's Spanish ...

Yep, you've done a very good with those translations.

Also, it's worth mentioning that the review has been done on an X470 motherboard with an early BIOS for the new processors, which might explain the high latency and it could mean that the actual performance could be even better, specially in applications like games.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.