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Carzy Zarx's PC gaming emporium - Catch up on all the latest PC Gaming related news

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Zarx changed his avatar again. Thoughts?

Noice 242 62.37%
 
So soon? I just got used to the last one 13 3.35%
 
it sucks 21 5.41%
 
Your cropping skills are lacking 13 3.35%
 
Too noisy, can't tell WTF it even is 11 2.84%
 
Meh 27 6.96%
 
Total:327
Pemalite said: 
haxxiy said:

I call BS on the rumours, given what we know already about the power consumption and performance of the 7nm Radeon Instinct. And Navi is another GCN part, so yeah. I remember how it went for the Fiji, Polaris, Vega rumours etc. as well, and this looks exactly the same sort of baseless hype WCCF thrives with.

Navi seems to be compared to Pascal at most outlets. - You would think it would be compared to Turing? But I digress.

Maybe AMD has fixed up and enabled primitive shaders and draw stream rasterization and introduced some new aspects to drive home efficiencies in Navi? If they are just relying on fabrication to draw improvements from... Well. That's just Polaris 2.0.

I remember reading somewhere that initially Navi was going to be the last of GCN and then Next Gen would be a completely new arch, but a decision was made to turn Navi into a hybrid between GCN and next gen to ease the transition process, which is also why Navi seems to be so far behind. It would help explain some of the rumors and leaks if true.



Initial 8th gen console wars as explained by The Matrix
XB - Did you know that the XB1 was designed to be a perfect multimedia device? Where none shared, where everyone would use Kinect. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire 360 catalogue was lost. Some believed we lacked the console gamer logic to describe the perfect system, but we believed that, as a community, console gamers define their reality through waiting and micro-transactions. The imperfect hardware was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the XB1 was redesigned to this: the XB1S and XB1X, the peak of console 4k capability.
PS - You're more attractive than I thought. I can see why they like you. - Who? - Not too bright though… You know why Cerny was hired to design the PS4? – Yes. – So, what do you think? Do you think you’re the One? – Honestly, we don’t know. - Do you know what that phrase means? It’s gamer lingo for know thyself. I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Being the One is a lot like being the PS3. No one needs tell you that you screwed up, you just know it, through and through, hardware to exclusives.
Nin - Ok, now I'm supposed to say, hmm, that's interesting, but...then you say...- But what? - But...you already know what I'm going to tell you. - I'm not the Wii. - Sorry tablet. You got the gimmick, but it looks like you're waiting for something. - What? - Your next life maybe, who knows? That's the way these things go...   /  Unfortunately no one can be told what the Wii U is. You have to experience it for yourself. 
PC - Welcome to the x86 real gaming world. 
// //
Around the Network
I'm playing through Mega Man 3 on MM Legacy Collection on Steam

Also

FFIV on DS
Metal Gear Solid 2 on PS3

    

Basil's YouTube Channel


                    

EricHiggin said:
Pemalite said: 

Navi seems to be compared to Pascal at most outlets. - You would think it would be compared to Turing? But I digress.

Maybe AMD has fixed up and enabled primitive shaders and draw stream rasterization and introduced some new aspects to drive home efficiencies in Navi? If they are just relying on fabrication to draw improvements from... Well. That's just Polaris 2.0.

I remember reading somewhere that initially Navi was going to be the last of GCN and then Next Gen would be a completely new arch, but a decision was made to turn Navi into a hybrid between GCN and next gen to ease the transition process, which is also why Navi seems to be so far behind. It would help explain some of the rumors and leaks if true.

I doubt that is the case.
It takes allot of work (And cash) to do such a degree of re-engineering, especially for a single product lineup, AMD isn't exactly rolling in cash.

I would be surprised if it was anything other than another iterative update to Graphics Core Next.

I mean... Back in the Terascale days, AMD did modify VLIW5 and came up with VLIW4 as an interim release, but it was still very much Terascale with all it's caveats.

I mean... At this point I would be very happy to be incorrect, AMD's GPU's right now are pretty terrible in the high-end. (But not bad in the low-end.)




HoloDust said:
JEMC said:

It launched on the Amiga? I didn't know it was also on that console.

I'm sure you meant computer, not console. ;)

Yeah...in fact, it released on Amiga first. Delphine Software was quite computer-oriented, I got to know them first through adventure games (Future Wars and Operation Stealth), then, of course, Another World launched and minds were blown, and after that Future Wars. Didn't like much Fade to Black, AKA Flashback 2. That's the last game I've played released by them, though Eric Chahi who created Another World made Heart of Darkness few years later and i really liked that one.

I'm sorry. I'll go to the blackboard and write 100 times: "Amiga was a PC, not a console".

:P

I didn't play Fade to Black, but I remember that it didn't get the same praise as the first game. A shame. And of course, let's better not talk about that remake they made a while ago...

BasilZero said:
I'm playing through Mega Man 3 on MM Legacy Collection on Steam

Also

FFIV on DS
Metal Gear Solid 2 on PS3

I see you're still busy and in love with FF. Good for you.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Oh, one more thing. After the new store announced by Epic, with how little they take from the total price as their main decoy (so to speak), I've just found how much do other store take. Credit goes to Gareth Halfacree, from bit-tech:

https://forums.bit-tech.net/index.php?threads/epic-games-store-aims-to-dethrone-steam.354434/

"Itch.io (indie-focus) has a default 90/10 split to the developer; Game Jolt is 70/30; GOG.com is 70/30 dropping to 60/40 if you accept the offer of a cash advance on royalties returning to 70/30 once you've earned out; Humble is 75/25; Steam was 60/40 but switched, mostly, to 70/30 rising to 75/25 and 80/20 if you pass $10m and $50m in sales respectively; Apple App Store and Google Play are both 70/30 though 'subscription' revenue gets 85/15; the Microsoft Store is 85/15 though "consumer applications (not including games)" get 95/5 if the purchase is made from a direct deep-link; and I have no idea about Origin."

And then, regarding the Humble split:

"It's specifically the Humble Store, not the Bundles. Humble Bundles allow the user to control where the money goes, and these days...



...the default is 65 percent to the dev, 20 percent to Humble, and 15 percent to charity - though you're free to send 100 to the dev (or charity, or even Humble) if you click on the surprisingly-well-hidden 'choose where your money goes' drop-down."



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Around the Network

Thursday news:

SALES & DEALS

Steam's daily deal is Spintires: MudRunner, 50% off: https://store.steampowered.com/app/675010/Spintires_MudRunner/

There's a new Humble Bundle with Team17. Worms, The Escapists, Overcooked or more are waiting for you for the next 12 days: https://www.humblebundle.com/games/team-17-bundle

At Fanatical, there's a couple more deals:

 

SOFTWARE/DRIVERS

Despite using the Denuvo anti-tamper tech, Just Cause 4 has been cracked in just a day
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/despite-using-the-denuvo-anti-tamper-tech-just-cause-4-has-been-cracked-in-just-a-day/
Just Cause 4 is the latest game using the Denuvo anti-tamper tech and it appears that this tech is no longer doing its job. We don’t know whether Denuvo plans to release a new version that will be harder to crack, however Just Cause 4 has been cracked in just one day.
At this point, Square Enix is simply hurting itself by keeping the Denuvo anti-tamper tech in Just Cause 4 as it can no longer protect it. Not only that, but the publisher is also losing sales from those that are boycotting games that have Denuvo.
Just Cause 4 uses Denuvo 5.3 which was previously used in Hitman 2 and was cracked almost immediately. We don’t know whether Denuvo plans to remove a new version of its anti-tamper tech that will be harder to crack, however things are not looking good for all the publishers that have invested on it.

Valve explains Steam Discovery bug that made indie games harder to find
https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-explains-steam-discovery-bug-that-made-indie-games-harder-to-find/
A post on a Steam developer forum that went up earlier this week detailed a bug, introduced in October, that many indie developers claimed caused a significant reduction in traffic to their store pages, and thus their sales. The problem was reportedly related to Steam's Discovery feature, which was recommending "large, popular games" over more relevant titles, and while the bug was apparently fixed quickly, the impact lingered: Dean Hall, for one, said on December 2 that Stationeers was only getting ten percent of the traffic that it used to.
In response to those complaints, Valve has posted a message in the Steamworks Development group (available to the public) explaining what happened.

 

MODS/EMULATORS

Latest version of RPCS3 comes with major performance improvements to inFamous 1-2, Skate 1-3, God of War 3 and more
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/latest-version-of-rpcs3-comes-with-major-performance-improvements-to-infamous-1-2-skate-1-3-god-of-war-3-and-more/
The team behind the best Playstation 3 emulator, RPCS3, has released a new video showcasing the major performance and graphical improvements that are featured in its latest version. For example, the latest version of RPCS3 features improved stability for God of War 3, bringing it closer to a “Playable” state (the game still has performance issues so here is hoping that it will be fully playable in 2019).

Doom 3: Phobos mod is inspired by games like Half Life & Dark Forces/Jedi Knight, first episode available
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/doom-3-phobos-mod-is-inspired-by-games-like-half-life-dark-forces-jedi-knight-first-episode-available/
Team Future has released the first episode of its brand new mod for Doom 3, Phobos. The team has upped the action, speed and gore, but not to the extreme lengths seen in the new Doom game, and built levels meant for exploration, progression and environmental puzzles.
According to the team, the aforementioned level design philosophies are the main quality differences between Phobos – which is said to be closer to games like Half-Life or Dark Forces/Jedi Knight in spirit – and Classic Doom or other mods that simply focus on action or gore.
>> Check the video in the article and, if you're convinced, get this mod from ModDB.

New Borderlands 2 mods remove blocking obstacles, overhaul Arena & difficulty, enable co-op & more
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/new-borderlands-2-mods-remove-blocking-obstacles-overhaul-arena-difficulty-enable-co-op-more/
Borderlands 2 fans, here are some cool mods for you today. Modders ‘OB4MA’, ‘Robeth’ and ‘Hemaxhu’ have released several mods that remove blocking obstacles from the game, overhaul the Arena, overhaul the difficulty by making the game harder but more rewarding, and enable co-op with 5+ players in a single game.
>> Check the article for the descriptions of each mod as well as the download links.

 

GAMING NEWS

Samurai Spirits, new 3D Samurai Shodown game, confirmed for a Q2 2019 release on the PC
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/samurai-spirits-new-3d-samurai-showdown-game-confirmed-for-a-q2-2019-release-on-the-pc/
Back in September, we informed you about a new 3D Samurai Shodown fighting game called Samurai Spirits. While SNK did not reveal the platforms for which it will be coming, we are happy to report to today that this new fighting game is officially confirmed for a Q2 2019 PC release.
>> Yay!

Open-world JRPG, Edge of Eternity, is now available on Steam in Early Access phase
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/open-world-jrpg-edge-of-eternity-is-now-available-on-steam-in-early-access-phase/
Midgar Studio has announced that its open-world JRPG, Edge of Eternity, is now available on Steam in Early Access. This Early Access release features a small portion of the world, and the start of the story, and the team aims to fully release the game in 2020.

2084 is a new cyberpunk first-person shooter coming to Steam Early Access next week
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/2084-is-a-new-cyberpunk-first-person-shooter-coming-to-steam-early-access-next-week/
Plan of Attack and Feardemic have announced a new cyberpunk first-person shooter that is coming to the PC in Steam Early Access on December 13th, called 2084. 2084 casts players into a horrific post-apocalyptic labyrinth full of deadly hostiles and when I saw its first screenshots I immediately thought of Observer. And, surprise surprise, 2084 is developed by the same team that was behind Observer and Layers of Fear.

Just Cause 4 is Mostly Negative on Steam in just a day, video comparison between Just Cause 3 and 4
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/just-cause-4-is-mostly-negative-on-steam-in-just-a-day-video-comparison-between-just-cause-3-and-4/
Just Cause 4 has just been released on the PC and in just a day, the game has Mostly Negative reviews on Steam. PC gamers list numerous graphical issues, downgraded visuals, bugs (especially with the menu), inability to remap keys and more.

Ubisoft will announce the next Far Cry game at the Video Game Awards 2018
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/ubisoft-will-announce-the-next-far-cry-game-at-the-video-game-awards-2018/
Ubisoft has announced that it will reveal the next Far Cry game at the Video Game Awards 2018 later today. In order to hype this new FC game, the publisher has released a teaser trailer that you can find below.
>> shikamaru317 has a thread about this announcement of an announcement.

Adventure/stealth game, A Plague Tale: Innocence, gets a new set of beautiful screenshots
https://www.dsogaming.com/screenshot-news/adventure-stealth-game-a-plague-tale-innocence-gets-a-new-set-of-screenshots/
Focus Home Interactive has released a new set of screenshots for A Plague Tale: Innocence. According to the press release, Asobo have used their own engine to push current generation hardware as far as possible.

id Software will remove the loot boxes from Quake Champions
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/id-software-will-remove-the-loot-boxes-from-quake-champions/
id Software has announced that it will be removing the controversial loot boxes from Quake Champions. The development team will be replacing these loot boxes with a clearer champion progression system, streamlined economy, and a premium battle pass.

Free trial for Shadow of the Tomb Raider will be available on Steam later today
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/free-trial-for-shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-will-be-available-on-steam-later-today/
Square Enix has announced that the Shadow of the Tomb Raider Free Trial will go live on the Windows via Steam later today. According to the press release, players will experience the beginning of Lara Croft’s latest adventure as they journey to Cozumel, Mexico in the midst of The Day of the Dead celebrations, where Lara and her trusted friend Jonah must race against Trinity to find a hidden tomb.

DYNASTY WARRIORS 7: Xtreme Legends Definitive Edition is now available on the PC
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/dynasty-warriors-7-xtreme-legends-definitive-edition-is-now-available-on-the-pc/
KOEI Tecmo has announced that DYNASTY WARRIORS 7: Xtreme Legends Definitive Edition is now available for the first time digitally on Windows PC via Steam for $19.99. In order to celebrate this announcement, the publisher has released some screenshots that you can find below.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Thursday news, part two:

Starbreeze offices raided as Swedish authorities investigate insider trading allegations
https://www.pcgamer.com/starbreeze-offices-raided-as-swedish-authorities-investigate-insider-trading-allegations/
Starbreeze, the publisher of games including Payday 2 and Overkill's The Walking Dead, has confirmed reports that its Stockholm office was raided by Swedish authorities investigating allegations of insider trading.
>> The company is not under investigation (at least for now), just one of their employees.

Former Dragon Age creative director Mike Laidlaw is now with Ubisoft
https://www.pcgamer.com/former-dragon-age-creative-director-mike-laidlaw-is-now-with-ubisoft/
Mike Laidlaw, formerly the creative director and lead designer on the Dragon Age RPG series, left BioWare in 2017 so he could try his hand at other things—including the Dragon Age: Origins-inspired RPG The Waylanders. But today he announced that he's back at a big developer, this time as the creative director at Ubisoft Quebec.
>> He's gone to the team that lead the Assassin's Creed Odyssey game.

The first new Overwatch Winter Wonderland skin turns Zarya into a real Russian bear
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-first-new-overwatch-winter-wonderland-skin-turns-zarya-into-a-real-russian-bear/
Blizzard announced yesterday that the Winter Wonderland will return to Overwatch on December 11, a snowy special event that we predicted would be preceded by the usual array of new Legendary skin reveals. Sure enough, we were right (shocking, I know): First on the runway is Snowboarder Zarya, whose cute furry look makes for a very different sort of "Russian Bear."

After five years in development, Capybara's Below will release next week
https://www.pcgamer.com/after-five-years-in-development-capybaras-below-will-release-next-week/
First announced at Microsoft's 2013 E3 press conference, fantasy roguelike Below is finally releasing on December 14 – just in time to meet its 2018 release window. Developed by Canadian studio Capybara Games – best known for Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP – the game was initially meant to launch in 2016 before it was delayed.

Destiny 2 has a matchmaking bug that can be fixed by walking slowly
https://www.pcgamer.com/destiny-2-has-a-matchmaking-bug-that-can-be-fixed-by-walking-slowly/
If you're having trouble entering the Blind Well PvE arena in Destiny 2, you're not alone. There's apparently a common bug preventing players from accessing the mode – at least, it's common enough that Bungie was prompted to issue a temporary workaround today while they work on fixing it.

Fallout 76's patch slowed down resource harvesting at public workshops
https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-patch/
Fallout 76's next patch will be along on December 4, and the most notable fix it brings is to the stash limit.
Update: This week's Fallout 76 patch brought along the highly anticipated increase to player stash limits, raising the weight limit from 400 pounds to 600. Filling your magic box with junk may now also take you a bit longer, due to a change to the way resource extractors work after the patch. These changes didn't originally appear in the patch notes, but have now been added. (I've added them to the notes below as well.)

Bethesda's website briefly revealed customer support tickets and personal information
https://www.pcgamer.com/bethesdas-website-briefly-revealed-customer-support-tickets-and-personal-information/
The hits keep on coming for Bethesda and its customers. For a brief period today, players who logged into Bethesda's website to view or update their technical support tickets were able to view everyone else's support tickets, too. The information in some of these support tickets apparently included customer's names, email addresses, and other personal information.
>> The mess that is Fallout 76, the canvas bags problem and now this. Bethesda is on a roll.

Fortnite Season 7's v7.00 patch notes introduce ziplines, Creative and a new flying vehicle
https://www.pcgamer.com/fortnite-season-7s-patch-notes-introduce-ziplines-creative-and-a-new-flying-vehicle/
Fortnite Season 7 arrives today and so do the patch notes for v7.00 of the game. The iceberg has crashed into the map, altering it in a whole bunch of ways, while a new flying vehicle called the Stormwing has been added. Fortnite Creative mode has also deployed for anyone who owns the Battle Pass—everyone else gets it next week on the 13th.
>> And here you can check the new skins.

World of Tanks Holiday Ops 2019 gives you decorations for destruction
https://www.pcgamer.com/world-of-tanks-holiday-ops-2019-gives-you-decorations-for-destruction/
World of Tanks is getting all festive, or at least as festive as a game about huge tanks relentlessly fighting can be. Holiday Ops 2019 starts soon and will begin with the gift of a free tank, the MKA, a tier 3 premium tank. Cheers, Santa. For more rewards, you’ll need to do more than just be well-behaved. You’ll need to crush your enemies in holiday missions.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Epic dropping UT when they've recently announced that they want to take on Steam in the PC gaming arena seems completely retarded for a "supportive" move. They are dropping a PC IP and just putting more focus on their kiddy popular BR game, the one that makes them billions of dollars.

They don't want to take on PC gaming, they just want extra pocket change. Where are the new projects for the platform then?.

                                       

Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

I remember reading somewhere that initially Navi was going to be the last of GCN and then Next Gen would be a completely new arch, but a decision was made to turn Navi into a hybrid between GCN and next gen to ease the transition process, which is also why Navi seems to be so far behind. It would help explain some of the rumors and leaks if true.

I doubt that is the case.
It takes allot of work (And cash) to do such a degree of re-engineering, especially for a single product lineup, AMD isn't exactly rolling in cash.

I would be surprised if it was anything other than another iterative update to Graphics Core Next.

I mean... Back in the Terascale days, AMD did modify VLIW5 and came up with VLIW4 as an interim release, but it was still very much Terascale with all it's caveats.

I mean... At this point I would be very happy to be incorrect, AMD's GPU's right now are pretty terrible in the high-end. (But not bad in the low-end.)

I would mostly agree. I don't think it would be a true hybrid as you say, since the cost and engineering would be significant, and Radeon is already way behind GeForce, so more delays don't seem like a good idea at this point in time. Another step like Vega was would make more sense. AMD doesn't want to disappoint gamers again though, since they way over hyped Vega and didn't deliver, especially at launch, so another situation like that would just hurt them even worse. With the RTX 2000 series not exactly setting the market on fire, now may be the perfect time for a delayed and improved GPU from AMD.

Now what about if the PS5 rumors are true? If PS is working directly with AMD on Navi, that could explain the delay and investment necessary. If PS5 is using Navi, they may very well want some Next Gen Radeon features baked in, much like how when they used Polaris in Pro with some Vega baked in. Based on the launches of Pro and XB1X, the odds are that PS5 should launch before, or at the same time as Scarlet, depending on how long MS waits. PS may be locked into using Navi, whether they launch on schedule or not, and they very well may want as many of those Next Gen Radeon features built in as possible, if they assume that Scarlet will be using Next Gen Radeon tech. Navi with some Next Gen Radeon features built in, will probably allow PS to save on time and cost vs using the full blown new arch, and would allow AMD a better product but with a delayed launch. This would also have to be under the assumption that PS isn't getting it's own distinct version of Navi, and that all Navi silicon will come with the same features PS5 has, otherwise this wouldn't really explain why Navi is behind schedule. If the recent rumors of chiplet APU's has any truth to it, this would make sense if the next gen consoles aren't integrated on die APU's like in the past. 



Initial 8th gen console wars as explained by The Matrix
XB - Did you know that the XB1 was designed to be a perfect multimedia device? Where none shared, where everyone would use Kinect. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire 360 catalogue was lost. Some believed we lacked the console gamer logic to describe the perfect system, but we believed that, as a community, console gamers define their reality through waiting and micro-transactions. The imperfect hardware was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the XB1 was redesigned to this: the XB1S and XB1X, the peak of console 4k capability.
PS - You're more attractive than I thought. I can see why they like you. - Who? - Not too bright though… You know why Cerny was hired to design the PS4? – Yes. – So, what do you think? Do you think you’re the One? – Honestly, we don’t know. - Do you know what that phrase means? It’s gamer lingo for know thyself. I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Being the One is a lot like being the PS3. No one needs tell you that you screwed up, you just know it, through and through, hardware to exclusives.
Nin - Ok, now I'm supposed to say, hmm, that's interesting, but...then you say...- But what? - But...you already know what I'm going to tell you. - I'm not the Wii. - Sorry tablet. You got the gimmick, but it looks like you're waiting for something. - What? - Your next life maybe, who knows? That's the way these things go...   /  Unfortunately no one can be told what the Wii U is. You have to experience it for yourself. 
PC - Welcome to the x86 real gaming world. 
// //
JEMC said:
haxxiy said:

I call BS on the rumours, given what we know already about the power consumption and performance of the 7nm Radeon Instinct. And Navi is another GCN part, so yeah. I remember how it went for the Fiji, Polaris, Vega rumours etc. as well, and this looks exactly the same sort of baseless hype WCCF thrives with.

Well, I'm not jumping on the hype wagon yet with all these rumors. As I said, it's too good to be true.

That said, I was at HardOCP checking the discussion of this video, that is from AdoredTV (Wccftech only reports it), and Kyle Bennett stepped in to comment: "There is a whole lot of reality in that video. A lot. There is a little wrong, but not a lot."

That makes me thing that either he's trolling the members of his own site, or that there's more true than we are willing to accept.

AMD would crank up the prices if they had anything very good in hand. They aren't more than doubling the performance-per-price value of the Polaris / Vega cards from one year to the other, it's too agressive for a company who needs money for R&D etc. so badly to compete.

Compare Ryzen retailing for $500 versus the meek FX for no more than $200, or Vega coming for a mere $500 - $700, way lower than the top GeForce cards, when it's implied the design is quite troublesome to manufacture.

That would be my two cents at least.