Chinese manufacturers are bringing the price down, market penetration of 4k is going to keep on growing, that's the reality, that's the facts.

We have no idea what AMD's implementation of full-scene RT on console is going to entail, we don't have any low-level information other than a few tidbits.
One thing we do know is that the hardware in the consoles will be a deviation from what we have on the PC currently for AMD's parts even the Navi PC chips.

I am talking about demand for 4k in general, it doesn't matter if you are uploading or downloading, if you are uploading 4k content, then hopefully someone on the other end is downloading 4k content. - That is generally how these things work you know?
Playing around with semantics by pointing out differences between uploading/downloading 4k is thus ultimately irrelevant.

Not everyone is going to be uploading in 4k, that's fine, these consoles will have some relevancy even 10 years from now, Internet speeds will only continue to increase during that interim.

And Intel is the example that contradicts your demonstrated point.
AMD keeps it's APU's a step back from is desktop parts on the technology front... I mean who ultimately gives a shit if AMD's 3000 series is Vega or Navi? It could have been Polaris for all I care... As the GPU would still be more capable than the Intel Variant.
Bbut holding back the chips with terrible power management, 12nm and middling DDR4 2400mhz isn't pushing boundries... And AMD should be called out on it for what it is.

As for Tegra, there are reasons why nVidia takes it's approach that it does, it needs to be price sensitive due to the markets that product is perusing... The Ryzen 2700u/3700u is supposed to be AMD's high-end mobile effort.

Bit of a stretch to assume Navi is even remotely required.

Then use an older GPU design. The GPU architecture isn't the intrinsic issue, it's everything else that is holding it back... Vega with 704~ shader pipes and only 38GB/s of bandwidth whilst being thermal throttled isn't doing AMD any favors. That's the reality of the situation.
Things don't improve though if we don't give criticism where criticism is due... And AMD's mobile efforts do tend to leave allot to be desired... And that has held true for years.

Remember how big the mobile market is. There is coinage to be made.

Yo yo wassup I got my new office pc parts yesterday and I built it:

I'm very satisfied with it, it's super snappy, but I might have to add another 4 gigs of ram.

This case was the cheapest but it's surprisingly good, it even has space for cable management, the only thing that gives away that it is super cheap is the plastic mesh in front, if it was metal this case would look super good.

It is 2 cores 4 threads but Windows and other software sees it as 4 core LOL

Congratulations! I hope it serves you right for many years to come.

There's so much empty space in that case, tho. It's begging for a GPU.

Thanks! I might add my old Geforce 960 in it after transportation, but I don't play games at work, although I recently installed Atom RPG lol but I don't have time to play it.

That is probably because they are counting them as logical processors.

Grats on the build though!

Clean and tidy cable management. Looks good. The Athlon branding brings back fond memories. Hope it does the same for you.

Thanks guys. My old office pc was AMD Phenom 4X, it served me well but was showing age.

Not fast enough since the vast majority of households only replace displays every 5+ years ...

This is AMD's plan currently ... 

When they introduce 'hardware' for ray tracing, it'll only be done for "select lighting effects". If AMD aren't thinking about attempting "full scene ray tracing" on local devices such as consoles, there's almost zero chance console manufacturers are thinking about attempting both 4K and full scene ray tracing ... 

If you're doing real-time 4K uploads then anyone would best be sure that they have the uplink speeds to support that ... 

Demand for 4K content in general does not equate to demand for real-time 4K uploads. Just because Netflix or some other video content providers requires their content be in 4K doesn't mean that people will hold the same standards for other types of content such as real-time video streaming ... 

It's easy enough to downlink 4K content but doing real-time game streaming requires good uplink speeds so why would devices like consoles need to have good support for real-time 4K streaming anyways ? I don't think you've answered this question yet ... 

Is there ANY good reason why consoles must be able to do real-time 4K streaming when the much of today's uplink speeds can't support it ? Heck, is there any reason why this functionality must be integrated into the device when people can opt-in to use capture cards instead ? 

@Bold Not really because Intel still don't make discrete GPUs ...

At least the HTPC crowd would care if it was Vega or Navi. Every time AMD changes the display or video engines supporting different codecs, interfaces, and standards even within the same architecture. Their Raven Ridge platform which features integrated Vega GPUs have full fixed function VP9 decode while their desktop Vega counterparts do not ... 

Nvidia stopped being price sensitive with Tegra since the X1 was a failure so now customers have to pay $1300 for an integrated Volta! 

What if integrated Navi came with HDMI 2.1 support ? 

Depends on what you mean by 'mobile'. If you meant Smartphones then Intel already gave up on that and are going to auction off their modem unit. If you meant ultra-portable slim notebooks then there's a relevant enough market for it but even that's changing since ARM might become a real threat and connectivity like 5G is getting more important ... 

There's arguably a stronger case for AMD to hold off on mobile even if their GPU architecture isn't the issue since Ice Lake will still likely trounce AMD's 2nd gen Zen mobile offerings. No reason for AMD to rush when their success in mobile are entirely contingent upon Intel failing over there ... 

Hopefully, Intel's manufacturing group will die off soon ... 

Plenty fast enough. With already millions of televisions already sold... With the majority of panels now being shipped as 4k... And with more than a year before next gen consoles launch... And with an expected lifetime of 7-10 years for the next gen consoles to have some sort of relevancy.

Clearly Sony and Microsoft agree, hence the Playstation 4 Pro and Xbox One X consoles that target those with higher resolution (4k) panels.
Not to mention that 4k consoles bring a plethora of benefits to 1080P panels via super sampling anyway.

Plus other avenues like Youtube, Netflix, Amazon, Blu-ray and so on are bringing out 4k content all the time right now.

Lots of demand and movement on this front, no point denying it now.

You forget not everything is or needs to be rendered at native resolution.

It is only early days with Ray Tracing, Developers are still coming to grips with it, let us see how far they take it.
Either way... The Ray Tracing Wars will begin they will.

You can do 4k on Twitch with just 15Mbps.
You also don't need to upload 4k records in real time, the XBox One for example you can record in-game footage and upload it at a later date or even whilst you aren't using the console.

If people are demanding to consume 4k content... Then people will be trying to meet that demand. - It's the new era of content creation and media consumption, it's been happening for awhile.

Not everyone lives in the US... Much of the world has oodles of bandwidth, especially in metro areas.

Because consoles are becoming more PC-like and offering more and more options because everyone has different needs/wants/desires? Nothing wrong with that either.

Capture cards are so 1999 TBH.

Doesn't matter. Again, the GPU architecture/technology is actually irrelevant.

Nope. The HTPC fanatics wouldn't care if it was Vega or Navi. They care about the specific video encode/decode blocks... Ironically this is another sore spot for AMD and has been for some time.

Not really a failure. Now that they have a big design win with Switch.

Can't think of any HDMI 2.1 devices that can do 4k 120Hz correctly. There are TVs and monitors that can do 4K 120hz, by using Y′CBCR with 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 subsampling... So I don't see the importance personally.

But no reason why they can't backport it to an older Graphics Core Next design anyway... Wouldn't be the first time AMD has done that. (Hence why some of their mobile chips had better video engines than the desktop GPU at some points!)

Notebooks, 2 in 1's. Not sure why you are bothering to Smartphones into the conversation when the topic is about Intel considering their irrellevency.

AMD doesn't need to beat Intel, they just need to offer a good product with good performance at a good price with decent power characteristics and features.

Intels 6-core mobile chips absolutely dominate AMD in heavily threaded scenarios and will often turbo up higher for longer to boot.

Intels manufacturing is still relevant... Their successive process nodes are still on track for their targeted scheduled releases.

Think DDR3 ram is causing me issues in games. Watch Dogs 2 and Dying Light both stuttering, managed to mostly fix by Dying Light by lowering settings but couldn't fix Watch Dogs. FPS overlay always has the games at 60+ fps staying in my 48-75hz freesync range but Watch Dogs has some really bad stuttering, which moving to SSD didn't fix. So yeah... pretty sure it's a ram issue.

Going to have to upgrade to one of the new Ryzen cpu's with DDR4 memory sooner rather than later.

Edit: Discovered my Bios settings were limiting my ram to 1333mhz, put it up to 1600mhz but didn't help at all. Then I turned off vsync in watch dogs 2 and it fixed the stuttering... Turned vsync back on and the stuttering didn't come back. No idea.

I've had other weird issues with FreeSync, State of Decay locks the game to 60hz if you have vsync on, so I turned it off and tried to limit the games fps to 74 with AMD control panel so it stayed within range, but then it did a weird thing where the game ran in slow motion, then fast forwarded to catch up... lots of strange things, so in the end had to play limited to 60hz.

If there's a better way to limit the fps for FreeSync without using VSync let me know, but from what I've read you're meant to use it with VSync enabled in game.