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Forums - General Discussion - Saving sex for marriage... Avoiding Lust

Calmador on 06 July 2013
Torillian said:
Calmador said:

The best statistics are 100% acurate, no? Let's talk about you alone for a bit so we know where you stand infront of God's standards. I want to show you that your not so different from the "majority" of men. So, have you ever lusted?


Statistics are a sight better than "this is how I see the entire world from my limiated encounters with it.

Yep, I've lusted.  

Statistics show generalizations and trends but the things I know and see don't need statistics to confirm it. I know its a cultural norm that men are the way they are is because its okay to have sex before marriage and we how the common man approaches this idea. Because its common knowledge.

But, I think everyone can recognize that there is something wrong with everyone. Its common knowldege that we all have faults. The standards for being a good person show us this.

The standard, the law is written in your heart.

Romans 2:14-15

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

Even though your not Christian, you recognize evil in a way I can. People everywhere recognize evil to SOME extent. We all practically agree that rape is always evil. We all practically agree that theft is always evil. And I imagine we used to believe that lying was always evil too.. but today that's being comprised.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I can see why you think your not "horrible" compared to certian guys around you, like a rapist or like the many semi-players out there. But, that's easy to say when we put ourself next to them. When we put ourself next to relative morals. But, when we put yourself next to objective morals. We find out that we're not so great.

Matthew 5:27-28

 

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old,‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Infront of God, we find out that the standards we had are clearly much lower. We find out that our actions are not enough. But, that we should also be pure and good on the inside. And that God would want us to NEVER do ANY kind of evil, action or thoughts.

Before God and by your own words, infront of God you'd find yourself to be an adulterer and no doubt, I think I can say with confidence that all men face that as-well. We're relative to the player or the rapist in our thoughts. These thoughts of lust and letting it control us is what leads to sex before marriage, cheating on spouses... and much worse things like being okay with rape or pediphile behavior. I think God telling us to control our lusts is only intuitively good. God isn't against sex but that we keep a pure mind and wants us to have control over these passions so they don't get out of hand.

This is one of the main reason I explored God more because God makes a lot of sense. I suggest you reconsider your stance on God and explore and look into God too.



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.

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Calmador on 06 July 2013
Torillian said:
Calmador said:

My word is proof. I would'nt be saying it if it didn't happen. Also, the story makes sense. If someone pray in faith for God to answer and God answers. It is reasonable to conisder God exist and for other to think its possible.

Now, if I said... well I just had a vision at some radnom time... and I think it was form God. That story wouldn't make sense.

But, my story and report is that I specifically had Faith (which supposbly makese a connection with God) and then I specficially prayed for a vision for the purpose of proof. And as a result, I got one. That is a reasonable story and is not as vague as you make it out to be which was to just say... well I had a vision of Zues.. etc etc.

And I'm not the only one... and this was not the only time this happened to me. My brother had several spiritual encounters. He has seen shadows form into human figures and he wasn't the only one in the room. He had our young cousins in the same room and although they were young they and my brother saw that

These things happen. The spiritual realm is real and I garantee you that the Christian faith is easily the best based on moral standards, love, truth, justice and evidence. Don't just shrugg it off, ask about it and look for God. I know he exists via my own eyes.


Your word is not proof, proof requires something repeatable that you can show everyone or some recorded evidence you can show for your word.  That's the way the scientific process works.  

You know he exists, I'm sticking with he doesn't based off the current evidence.  

Scientic evidence isn't the only way to get evidence. You do know evidence in itself is not confined to science. Right now, I imagine there's a court case being made with the use of testimonial evidence. So, if someone tells you they saw something then its evidence. That's literally how we live our lives.... hey I saw "____" happened and we believe it and continue on our lives on common testimonies like that. Also, off the top of my head, there's historical analysis which is purely arguments based off what is.... seen.... from ancient artifacts.

Next, actually this is scientific evidence. I have repeated it. I have recorded it so by your own requests, you have my scientific evidence to accept. That I have had multiple prayers answers.

My brother and many other have repeated praying for such signs and they have happend. This is repeatable.

So, give God a chance... look more into this man. This isn't some made up things. I used to doubt it too but supernatural experiences have and do happen.

EDIT: I replied a lot. lol I've posted enough for today, I'll reply another day.



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.

Torillian on 06 July 2013

I'd be curious to see the recordings for myself.

Testimonials are acceptable if they follow the norm, but if you go into court right now and say you saw a demon they aren't going to just take you at your word, and neither am I.

I appreciate that you're being reasonable and not being overly pushy, but I've no desire to look into Christianity again so I'll just bow out of this conversation.



...

slowmo on 06 July 2013

I've no intention to discuss my beliefs as we aren't going to change each others opinion but I will talk about sex outside of marriage. Generally speaking sex with a new partner is going to be pretty crap at first (compared to when you know someone). Its for this reason I'm quite picky about partners, I'd never sleep with a girl unless I thought I could get into a relationship with them. To me its all about respecting your sexual partners which is what you'd do in a long term relationship anyway. Some people just can't go without sex though so we're all different.



NolSinkler on 06 July 2013

I'm not sure why you would even post this here. This site is swarmed by atheists and agnostics who cannot even begin to wrap their minds around the idea that self-control is a virtue, the idea that passions should be dominated and enslaved to reason (and not the other way around, wherein reason is used to justify passion).



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VGKing on 06 July 2013

What if you never get married?

Not saying you should just go an pay some prostitutes for sex, but if the situation arises with a good girl then I don't see what the problem is.



TheLastStarFighter on 08 July 2013
Calmador said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Is the OP actually ever going to post a Bible quote that says pre-marital sex is bad? None of the quotes posted say that.

Exodus 2:14

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

This is the "master" verse that speaks of either all or most of sexual immorality as I know it, as a Christian. This is one of the ten commandments.

Adultery is sex outside of marriage. This means you can't have sex with animals. This means that sex before marriage, fornificiation, is not something to do as-well.

I'm surprised you even need a verse to a very very well known principle.
adultery  (əˈdʌltərɪ) 
 
— n  , pl -teries
  voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man or woman and a partner other than the legal spouse
 

See, this is the problem.  Adultery means if you have given a commitment to someone, you should not be with someone else.  It is not the act of sex which is evil and sinful, it is the betrayal of trust.  If you are in a loving relationship - married or unmarried - then sex can be an expression of that.  If sex is a betrayal of commitment to another, then you are breaking Jesus's fundamental message of treating others how you wish to be treated.

There is nothign in the bible about pre-marital sex.  The stance you are taking is the problem with so many Christians in the eyes of non-Christians.  Your stance has no value. No one will believe that sex is wrong, so they mock your views.  It's too bad that this becomes the image of Christians, as it's not actually a Christian stance.  It's actually a stance that dates to ancient Greeks and adopted by early Greek Christians, but that's another story.

You should stop spouting these bible quotes and live by the simple message of be kind for others.  If you do this you will not be mocked by others, but rather you will be admired.



Calmador on 15 July 2013
VGKing said:
What if you never get married?

Not saying you should just go an pay some prostitutes for sex, but if the situation arises with a good girl then I don't see what the problem is.


If I never got married. I decided I'd just never have sex.

Sex isn't something I need. Sure, I want it and believe me I feel what every guy feels if temptation is near by but I know I don't need it.



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.

Calmador on 15 July 2013
TheLastStarFighter said:
Calmador said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Is the OP actually ever going to post a Bible quote that says pre-marital sex is bad? None of the quotes posted say that.

Exodus 2:14

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

This is the "master" verse that speaks of either all or most of sexual immorality as I know it, as a Christian. This is one of the ten commandments.

Adultery is sex outside of marriage. This means you can't have sex with animals. This means that sex before marriage, fornificiation, is not something to do as-well.

I'm surprised you even need a verse to a very very well known principle.
adultery  (əˈdʌltərɪ) 
 
— n  , pl -teries
  voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man or woman and a partner other than the legal spouse
 

See, this is the problem.  Adultery means if you have given a commitment to someone, you should not be with someone else.  It is not the act of sex which is evil and sinful, it is the betrayal of trust.  If you are in a loving relationship - married or unmarried - then sex can be an expression of that.  If sex is a betrayal of commitment to another, then you are breaking Jesus's fundamental message of treating others how you wish to be treated.

There is nothign in the bible about pre-marital sex.  The stance you are taking is the problem with so many Christians in the eyes of non-Christians.  Your stance has no value. No one will believe that sex is wrong, so they mock your views.  It's too bad that this becomes the image of Christians, as it's not actually a Christian stance.  It's actually a stance that dates to ancient Greeks and adopted by early Greek Christians, but that's another story.

You should stop spouting these bible quotes and live by the simple message of be kind for others.  If you do this you will not be mocked by others, but rather you will be admired.

Its there...

Matthew 15:19-21

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

Ezekiel 16:26
Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger

1 Corinthians 6:9–10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

The Ezekiel verse is the most clear verse from anyone's point of view.


When I gave you that "master verse" basically it implies that any sex that is not within a marriage (between a man and a woman) is an evil thing. That's why things like beastiality and sex before marriage is wrong.

This is easily a Christian stance.

Actually, there were a number of posters that supported this view... Christian and non-Christain. Joseph in the old testament, in the book of Genesis... before the Greeks even existed resisted sex with a governer's wife...which would be fornication. Joseph wasn't married and he called this a wicked thing. Also, that Ezekiel verse is probably in a time before the Greeks even existed.

I don't look for admiration in anybody. If people mock me or not doesn't mean a thing to me. This is for your sake and anyone else who reads' sake.



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.

Scoobes on 15 July 2013
Calmador said:
Torillian said:


Your word is not proof, proof requires something repeatable that you can show everyone or some recorded evidence you can show for your word.  That's the way the scientific process works.  

You know he exists, I'm sticking with he doesn't based off the current evidence.  

Scientic evidence isn't the only way to get evidence. You do know evidence in itself is not confined to science. Right now, I imagine there's a court case being made with the use of testimonial evidence. So, if someone tells you they saw something then its evidence. That's literally how we live our lives.... hey I saw "____" happened and we believe it and continue on our lives on common testimonies like that. Also, off the top of my head, there's historical analysis which is purely arguments based off what is.... seen.... from ancient artifacts.

Next, actually this is scientific evidence. I have repeated it. I have recorded it so by your own requests, you have my scientific evidence to accept. That I have had multiple prayers answers.

My brother and many other have repeated praying for such signs and they have happend. This is repeatable.

So, give God a chance... look more into this man. This isn't some made up things. I used to doubt it too but supernatural experiences have and do happen.

EDIT: I replied a lot. lol I've posted enough for today, I'll reply another day.

Just thought I'd reply to this. Witness testimonials are well known to be hugely unreliable. A single (even group) witness testimonial without further evidence (be it forensic, psychological, videos, audio logs, documentation etc.) will never be enough for a conviction in a genuine court of law. People are also easily swayed by a decent lawyer (or those around them) and will question their own memories if the general trend says something different. So everything you've posted would not count as reliable evidence.

As for your claims, why do you think these spiritual experiences equate to god? Have you considered alternative theories? Have you looked into psychology and neuroscience as to why this might occur? Or perhaps some of the more bizzare theories in quantum physics? Or perhaps it is supernatural but not neccessarily god? There are many possibilities.

You've come to a conclusion based on personal experience but you can't expect other people to believe your interpretation based on that alone. Based on your previous posts I would also recommend you read outside of religious texts. Like I said, their are many possible explanations.




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