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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Angry Joe Thanks gamers and responds to Microsofts reversal

J_Allard on 22 June 2013
Shinobi-san said:

Steam offline play works. Period. It does not cutoff after a certain time period. Valve has never ever claimed that. And if you buy the game in store the people there will tell you that you only need internet to activate. They can't make things up...thats obviously what valve or the distributor told them to say. They can't lie about stuff like that. Atleast that is what happens in my country and in the shops i buy my games at.

People don't really have a choice with Steam games to lend, borrow or resell PC games. However they can shop at GoG and get DRM free versions. Anyways im of the opinion, like some others, that their is a fundamental difference between consoles gaming as a platform and steam. You will disagree so lets move on.

I said brainwashed because you are just taking everything MS is releasing and not actually thinking about what their motives were. And i still believe that all their functions they spoke about are possible without DRM and especially without daily check-ins.

Like I already said twice, I know offline play works on Steam. For a varied amount of time depending on the user. It works for a few weeks for me and then I have to log onto Steam again. I don't know what your point is regarding what people tell you in the store when you buy games that require Steam. The PC market is so used to online DRM, I cannot remember the last time a clerk actually had to remind me about online authentication or Steam when I bought a retail PC game.

Of course people don't have a choice on PC. That's the point. But they don't mind, because the market evolved enough that there were advantages to digital and DRM that either outweighed the loss of rights for some or at least made them manageable for others. If you can get a brand new game right after release for cheap, people don't mind as much that you can't trade it in or sell it. If all these distribution platforms are having insane sales, you don't care as much that you're stuck with the game. Why are consoles immune to this? I would love to pay $35 for a AAA new release on my console without having to have it bomb first or have some special retailer code. It would be awesome if publishers had more sales of their content on XBL/PSN. And if it fails.. guess what? We still have a PS4 right there that is essentially a more powerful PS3, playing it safe and close to the vest.

Don't try to sit and tell me what I am thinking unless you can come up with a plausible way for them to allow retail games to be shared without online DRM. I'm not going to say I have spent tons of time thinking about it, because it's not something worth thinking about. But don't act as if I am some sheep just lapping up whatever they say.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 22 June 2013
J_Allard said:
Shinobi-san said:

Steam offline play works. Period. It does not cutoff after a certain time period. Valve has never ever claimed that. And if you buy the game in store the people there will tell you that you only need internet to activate. They can't make things up...thats obviously what valve or the distributor told them to say. They can't lie about stuff like that. Atleast that is what happens in my country and in the shops i buy my games at.

People don't really have a choice with Steam games to lend, borrow or resell PC games. However they can shop at GoG and get DRM free versions. Anyways im of the opinion, like some others, that their is a fundamental difference between consoles gaming as a platform and steam. You will disagree so lets move on.

I said brainwashed because you are just taking everything MS is releasing and not actually thinking about what their motives were. And i still believe that all their functions they spoke about are possible without DRM and especially without daily check-ins.

Like I already said twice, I know offline play works on Steam. For a varied amount of time depending on the user. It works for a few weeks for me and then I have to log onto Steam again. I don't know what your point is regarding what people tell you in the store when you buy games that require Steam. The PC market is so used to online DRM, I cannot remember the last time a clerk actually had to remind me about online authentication or Steam when I bought a retail PC game.

Of course people don't have a choice on PC. That's the point. But they don't mind, because the market evolved enough that there were advantages to digital and DRM that either outweighed the loss of rights for some or at least made them manageable for others. If you can get a brand new game right after release for cheap, people don't mind as much that you can't trade it in or sell it. If all these distribution platforms are having insane sales, you don't care as much that you're stuck with the game. Why are consoles immune to this? I would love to pay $35 for a AAA new release on my console without having to have it bomb first or have some special retailer code. It would be awesome if publishers had more sales of their content on XBL/PSN. And if it fails.. guess what? We still have a PS4 right there that is essentially a more powerful PS3, playing it safe and close to the vest.

Don't try to sit and tell me what I am thinking unless you can come up with a plausible way for them to allow retail games to be shared without online DRM. I'm not going to say I have spent tons of time thinking about it, because it's not something worth thinking about. But don't act as if I am some sheep just lapping up whatever they say.

DRM is only digital rights management, its created to put up barriers and limitations to protect the rights of the copyright holder. Sharing was only a perk for doing it and could be added on the cloud which Sony will be experimenting with as well with Gaikai. Family sharing was a cloud function not a DRM function. If they choose to take the perk out of the software then it goes. Major Nelson told Angry Joe he was in no position to tell him that DRM could immediately be taken out because its a software fix and he was proven wrong. Its all software. With DRM you only have about the same rights as someone who uses Itunes, which isn't very much at all. They set your parameters so the transactions work at least 70% in their favor. Its no longer about 100% customer satisfaction but rather 70/30 power with the former being in favor of the capitalist corporation.



oniyide on 22 June 2013

"f**k you, f**k you, because you were wrong and we were right!" fav part, thats all their really is to it, now.



J_Allard on 22 June 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:

DRM is only digital rights management, its created to put up barriers and limitations to protect the rights of the copyright holder.

Thanks but we all understand what DRM stands for and what its intentions are.

S.T.A.G.E. said:
Sharing was only a perk for doing it and could be added on the cloud which Sony will be experimenting with as well with Gaikai. Family sharing was a cloud function not a DRM function. If they choose to take the perk out of the software then it goes.

Family share was an incentive for digital gaming and DRM just like cheap prices and massive sales are a perk for the same policies on PC. What Sony is doing is just cloud gaming, been around for years. On the family share you might access the games via the cloud but you don't play them via the cloud. And even cloud gaming can have DRM. Family share isn't a "cloud function" or a "DRM function", whatever these mean. It was a feature that used the cloud and DRM.

 

S.T.A.G.E. said:
Major Nelson told Angry Joe he was in no position to tell him that DRM could immediately be taken out because its a software fix and he was proven wrong. Its all software. With DRM you only have about the same rights as someone who uses Itunes, which isn't very much at all. They set your parameters so the transactions work at least 70% in their favor. Its no longer about 100% customer satisfaction but rather 70/30 power with the former being in favor of the capitalist corporation.

As Angry Joe said in the video, Nelson gave him the only answer he could and was just doing his job. There was no "proven wrong". I am not sure why you are trying to explain how DRM is software based and is designed to give the creators some control. We all know this already and it's not really relevant to anything in my post that you quoted.