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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Will putting kinect in every box really change anything?

ChrolloLucilfer said:
Adinnieken said:
ChrolloLucilfer said:
Adinnieken said:
wilco said:
ChrolloLucilfer said:
Making the Kinect with the X1 mandatory seem a major mistake to me. The Xbox brand very reliant on third party titles and third party want an equal split between Sony/Microsoft, as if one console becomes to dominate over the other console theirs lesser competition on royalties fees. It's simply not in third party interest to spend extra money to make either xbox1/ps4 version superior to one or the other, unless they get paid handsomely for it.

If they want Kinect to be major selling point for the X1 they can only realistically rely on their own first party development. Looking at Kinect past track record on the Xbox 360, they look likely to struggle to make any worthwhile titles themselves for Kinect 2.


Great point. Even if there is a kinect with every xbox most developers aren't developing solely for xbox so that will not be their only consideration. Will multiplatform titles really bother trying to add features for kinect when the other console doesn't have kinect or even a mandatory eye camera?

My guess is that developers will actually develop common features for both Kinect and the PS4 Camera because they have shared features.  The difference is that for Kinect, developers know they'll likely be used.  With the PS4, only if the person has the PS4 Camera.

For example, the developer will offer voice controls on both the Xbox One and the PS4.  Developers will do the development once, and if it doesn't get used on the PS4 then it doesn't get used.  But it's there.

Developing Common features is a good possiblity. But only If the PS4 Camera sell well enough to bother using that feature. If the Camera goes on to sell only a couple a million, I can't see many Third Party jumping at the chance to use it's features.

It's about efficiency.  If I spend X amount of time building a feature for the Xbox One or Xbox 360, I want utilize that as much as possible.  If Sony builds in the same capabilities for voice recognition as the Xbox One, or the developer creates something that works passibly, then they'll do it.  If a game for the Xbox One builds in a face mapping feature, then in all likelihood the developer would include that in the PS4 version.  Just because I create the hooks, doesn't mean I force that feature upon you.  I can do an IF statement to check and see if you have the necessary hardware to support a feature.

If the PS4 Camera has a good attach rate with the PS4, then yes it would be worthwhile for Third Party creating Kinect based features on X1. As there would be potential audience for those types feature to be ported over for PS4 Camera use. But If the PS4 Camera sales are poor, why would a Third Party Developer spend their own time and money on developing features which only X1 audience is going to use to any large degree? It would be a waste resources which could be saved or spent on other aspects of the game developement instead.

Code is never wasted unless it's deleted.

If I build the code and it works, I have that code today and in the future.  I can plug it in whenever and whereever I want.  Yes, I may spend lots of hours upfront building that logic, but the cost in the future is 0 to implement it.  So if I build it once for Kinect, I can reuse it a thousand times or as many times as I need.  The same with the PS4 Camera.  In fact, it's better to frontload that early in the generation so it's done now, rather than wait until later.  Console manufacturers are willing to throw money at games that use features they want games to become familiar with, and down the road there will be new, bigger features you're going to want to use that will require your time and resources for. 



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Adinnieken said:
Rafux said:
No it won't change anything even Crytek just said "fuck it" and decided to make Ryse a controller game with some voice commands, if a game published by MS don't want to do it I don't see other devs wasting their time.

Now Kinect + Oculus Rift could be really something special.

I disagree.  Whether Ryse is better with a controller or not, we won't know, but I think Crytek ran into fidelity problems with Kinect that I doubt they would run into with Kinect 2.  I think Crytek ran into problems and decided early on that Kinect on the Xbox 360 wasn't going to work, so they abandoned the Kinect effort, but at some point Microsoft and Crytek decided that pushing for an Xbox One release might be more plausable.  There obviously was a point of no return.  A point where they decided what was working and what wasn't, and had to hold off on what wasn't.  I think with Kinect 2 Crytek probably would have achieved their goal.

The technology in Kinect 2 is completely different from Kinect.  The difference between a pair of binoculars and RADAR.  People want to believe that Kinect 2 is just Kinect 1 with an HD resolution camera.  It isn't.  Kinect 1 is a passive IR depth sensor and Kinect 2 is an active IR depth sensor.  With an active IR depth sensing system similar to what Kinect 2 is using they're finding lost civilizations around the world and creating the most detailed maps of the Earth ever imagined.

It is the most powerful depth and motion sensing system ever made available to consumers.

 


Why would Crytek not have access to the kinect 2 technology? If Rare had access to the Kinect 2 tech why would Crytek not since this is a MS published title and Ryse was suposed to be the kinect "hardcore title" they must have had access to it so they could make the game motion controlled but they choose not.

Why would other devs waste their time when even MS doesn't. Better with kinect is the most they will do with hardcore games.



Kinect sold far more than the PS Move, but the Move had more support on multiconsole games. Seems that developers felt it was far easier to tack on Move support than Kinect support despite having a much larger audience with Kinect.

Certain multiconsole games that had Kinect support are nothing more than voice commands, games like Binary Domain and Tom Clancy's End War which supported voice commands with a headset as well, or Skyrim, which had voice commands exclusive to Kinect probably because of some payoff from Microsoft to have exclusive Kinect support.



Rafux said:
Adinnieken said:
Rafux said:
No it won't change anything even Crytek just said "fuck it" and decided to make Ryse a controller game with some voice commands, if a game published by MS don't want to do it I don't see other devs wasting their time.

Now Kinect + Oculus Rift could be really something special.

I disagree.  Whether Ryse is better with a controller or not, we won't know, but I think Crytek ran into fidelity problems with Kinect that I doubt they would run into with Kinect 2.  I think Crytek ran into problems and decided early on that Kinect on the Xbox 360 wasn't going to work, so they abandoned the Kinect effort, but at some point Microsoft and Crytek decided that pushing for an Xbox One release might be more plausable.  There obviously was a point of no return.  A point where they decided what was working and what wasn't, and had to hold off on what wasn't.  I think with Kinect 2 Crytek probably would have achieved their goal.

The technology in Kinect 2 is completely different from Kinect.  The difference between a pair of binoculars and RADAR.  People want to believe that Kinect 2 is just Kinect 1 with an HD resolution camera.  It isn't.  Kinect 1 is a passive IR depth sensor and Kinect 2 is an active IR depth sensor.  With an active IR depth sensing system similar to what Kinect 2 is using they're finding lost civilizations around the world and creating the most detailed maps of the Earth ever imagined.

It is the most powerful depth and motion sensing system ever made available to consumers.

 


Why would Crytek not have access to the kinect 2 technology? If Rare had access to the Kinect 2 tech why would Crytek not since this is a MS published title and Ryse was suposed to be the kinect "hardcore title" they must have had access to it so they could make the game motion controlled but they choose not.

Why would other devs waste their time when even MS doesn't. Better with kinect is the most they will do with hardcore games.

Ryse was in development long before Kinect 2 was available outside of Microsoft.

Ryse was revealed in 2010 under the codename Kingdoms.  Then a year later revealed as Ryse.  We didn't see it in 2012.
My guess is that between 2011 and 2012, Crytek made the decision to pull Kinect.  In addition, it was probably decided not long after that in 2012 to port to the Xbox One.  This would have made it impossible, even unnecessary to show in 2012.



Of course it will change something.... developers can use features and be 100 % sure every user can take advantage out of it.



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kupomogli said:
Kinect sold far more than the PS Move, but the Move had more support on multiconsole games. Seems that developers felt it was far easier to tack on Move support than Kinect support despite having a much larger audience with Kinect.

Certain multiconsole games that had Kinect support are nothing more than voice commands, games like Binary Domain and Tom Clancy's End War which supported voice commands with a headset as well, or Skyrim, which had voice commands exclusive to Kinect probably because of some payoff from Microsoft to have exclusive Kinect support.

Nice try.

The Skyrim voice commands were actually a user generated mod that Bethesda adopted.  There were a number of other similar user created mods that were assembled into one patch.



Adinnieken said:
Rafux said:
Adinnieken said:
Rafux said:
No it won't change anything even Crytek just said "fuck it" and decided to make Ryse a controller game with some voice commands, if a game published by MS don't want to do it I don't see other devs wasting their time.

Now Kinect + Oculus Rift could be really something special.

I disagree.  Whether Ryse is better with a controller or not, we won't know, but I think Crytek ran into fidelity problems with Kinect that I doubt they would run into with Kinect 2.  I think Crytek ran into problems and decided early on that Kinect on the Xbox 360 wasn't going to work, so they abandoned the Kinect effort, but at some point Microsoft and Crytek decided that pushing for an Xbox One release might be more plausable.  There obviously was a point of no return.  A point where they decided what was working and what wasn't, and had to hold off on what wasn't.  I think with Kinect 2 Crytek probably would have achieved their goal.

The technology in Kinect 2 is completely different from Kinect.  The difference between a pair of binoculars and RADAR.  People want to believe that Kinect 2 is just Kinect 1 with an HD resolution camera.  It isn't.  Kinect 1 is a passive IR depth sensor and Kinect 2 is an active IR depth sensor.  With an active IR depth sensing system similar to what Kinect 2 is using they're finding lost civilizations around the world and creating the most detailed maps of the Earth ever imagined.

It is the most powerful depth and motion sensing system ever made available to consumers.

 


Why would Crytek not have access to the kinect 2 technology? If Rare had access to the Kinect 2 tech why would Crytek not since this is a MS published title and Ryse was suposed to be the kinect "hardcore title" they must have had access to it so they could make the game motion controlled but they choose not.

Why would other devs waste their time when even MS doesn't. Better with kinect is the most they will do with hardcore games.

Ryse was in development long before Kinect 2 was available outside of Microsoft.

Ryse was revealed in 2010 under the codename Kingdoms.  Then a year later revealed as Ryse.  We didn't see it in 2012.
My guess is that between 2011 and 2012, Crytek made the decision to pull Kinect.  In addition, it was probably decided not long after that in 2012 to port to the Xbox One.  This would have made it impossible, even unnecessary to show in 2012.


It doesn't matter, they had the access to the tech I bet Rare's Kinect Rivals wasn't made in a weekend at most they could have been delayed a year to make the game motion controlled, they did not maybe it was their choice maybe it was MS but they choose to ditch kinect 2 and that doesn't show a lot of promise and if Ryse won't use kinect 2 properly who will?



Madword said:
The one benefit of having Kinect in the box for all Xbox's is that you can at least make features that take advantage of it. The problem if you make multiplatform games would be that Sony/Nintendo don't, so you have to spend time/money on features that only 1/3 of the users might get access to.

So its kind of catch 22.


thats the same argument that could be said for the touch pad, n'est ce pas?  the one thing this gen has proven is that voice is the main kinect selling point outside of that screw the other console.

the advantage is developers are guaranteed everyone has it and its installed and not just sitting in the closet. what i dont get people cry about using their voice to do something while most of them talk to the game while playing.  i like the idea of kinect monitoring you heart rate.  think sniper elite where if you have it set as an option that it controls your steady if kinect see that youre relax.  or a scary game that if youre calm some crazy stuff just pop out at you, quick switching weapons, etc..  technology is great your playing on it lol.



ChrolloLucilfer said:
If the PS4 Camera has a good attach rate with the PS4, then yes it would be worthwhile for Third Party creating Kinect based features on X1. As there would be potential audience for those types feature to be ported over for PS4 Camera use. But If the PS4 Camera sales are poor, why would a Third Party Developer spend their own time and money on developing features which only X1 audience is going to use to any large degree? It would be a waste resources which could be saved or spent on other aspects of the game developement instead.

lol well we all know sony killed any hope of that.  so 3rd party devs have to do what they have to do.  factually, it just take  great ideas and not all the bitching by gamers just because its a kinect game.  some non dance kinect games had potential but writers killed it before it got started.  with kinect you had to have some form of coordination about yourself or it would fail.  steel batallion was one of those games.  the actually game just wasnt that great.  but you had some people myself included that had no problem with the controls and others playing it like an idiot (angry joe style).  should 3rd party developers ignore the ps4 touchpad because x1 dont have it? 



Rafux said:
Adinnieken said:
Rafux said:
Adinnieken said:
Rafux said:
No it won't change anything even Crytek just said "fuck it" and decided to make Ryse a controller game with some voice commands, if a game published by MS don't want to do it I don't see other devs wasting their time.

Now Kinect + Oculus Rift could be really something special.

I disagree.  Whether Ryse is better with a controller or not, we won't know, but I think Crytek ran into fidelity problems with Kinect that I doubt they would run into with Kinect 2.  I think Crytek ran into problems and decided early on that Kinect on the Xbox 360 wasn't going to work, so they abandoned the Kinect effort, but at some point Microsoft and Crytek decided that pushing for an Xbox One release might be more plausable.  There obviously was a point of no return.  A point where they decided what was working and what wasn't, and had to hold off on what wasn't.  I think with Kinect 2 Crytek probably would have achieved their goal.

The technology in Kinect 2 is completely different from Kinect.  The difference between a pair of binoculars and RADAR.  People want to believe that Kinect 2 is just Kinect 1 with an HD resolution camera.  It isn't.  Kinect 1 is a passive IR depth sensor and Kinect 2 is an active IR depth sensor.  With an active IR depth sensing system similar to what Kinect 2 is using they're finding lost civilizations around the world and creating the most detailed maps of the Earth ever imagined.

It is the most powerful depth and motion sensing system ever made available to consumers.

 


Why would Crytek not have access to the kinect 2 technology? If Rare had access to the Kinect 2 tech why would Crytek not since this is a MS published title and Ryse was suposed to be the kinect "hardcore title" they must have had access to it so they could make the game motion controlled but they choose not.

Why would other devs waste their time when even MS doesn't. Better with kinect is the most they will do with hardcore games.

Ryse was in development long before Kinect 2 was available outside of Microsoft.

Ryse was revealed in 2010 under the codename Kingdoms.  Then a year later revealed as Ryse.  We didn't see it in 2012.
My guess is that between 2011 and 2012, Crytek made the decision to pull Kinect.  In addition, it was probably decided not long after that in 2012 to port to the Xbox One.  This would have made it impossible, even unnecessary to show in 2012.


It doesn't matter, they had the access to the tech I bet Rare's Kinect Rivals wasn't made in a weekend at most they could have been delayed a year to make the game motion controlled, they did not maybe it was their choice maybe it was MS but they choose to ditch kinect 2 and that doesn't show a lot of promise and if Ryse won't use kinect 2 properly who will?

Crytek isn't a first-party studio, nor are they a core Kinect studio.  Rare is both of those.

As a publisher, Microsoft has input into the game.  If Microsoft didn't feel Kinect would be a good fit, then they with Crytek made that decision, and they made it before Kinect 2 was available. 

In my honest opinion, if it didn't happen before E3 2011, it happened shortly thereafter, that Microsoft and Crytek decided Kinect wasn't going to be a good fit for the game.  You have to understand, at this same exact time, Microsoft was working hard, putting a lot of a development resources into trying to get Star Wars Kinect to work.  So, I'm sure Microsoft knew and acknowledged that the fidelity for a game like Ryse wasn't going to be possible under Kinect (1), so Crytek needed to change its plans.  The fact that it is still, very much, an on-rails game shows how late in the development cycle the game was before Kinect was stripped out.  Any time Crytek had with the Xbox One development kit was likely spent porting the code from the Xbox 360 to the Xbox One, tweaking THAT code and getting it work perfectly as well as building and expanding the story and improving the art.

I know the development cycle.  I've developed code.  Changing from one platform to another isn't just a flip of a switch.  It is far easier with Microsoft than most other platforms, but it's still a huge learning curve.  And as made obvious by the lack of backward compatibility with the Xbox 360, code doesn't easily port from one to the other.